Gabey5 wrote...
at least anderson acknowledges the existence of the reapers..
And the rest of the Council ignores him
What's your point?
Who do you think is the logical choice for the human council member and why?
Débuté par
tommyt_1994
, oct. 15 2010 09:26
#251
Posté 18 octobre 2010 - 03:35
jbblue05
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And the rest of the Council ignores him
What's your point?
Retour en haut
#252
Posté 18 octobre 2010 - 03:44
Asheer_Khan
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There is old sentence "Enemy of my enemy is my friend"... so i wonder how long Chairman Udina of the Human Council will wait before his preemptive and unprovoked attacks and diplomatic faux pass will drag Citadel in interstellar war... Turians doesn't need to strike on humans... all they will do is support every other species with tech and weapon necessary to made human colonies face another Skylian blitz... but this time humans will not have ex alien council species support like have during first Blitz...
In my game world Udina should be glad that there was no option to shot him during saved Council meeting, and even if Anderson will really step down in ME 3 is no longer matter for me since Udina won't cause too much harm as part of Alien based Council since he can be easy outvoted by rest if necessary.
In my game world Udina should be glad that there was no option to shot him during saved Council meeting, and even if Anderson will really step down in ME 3 is no longer matter for me since Udina won't cause too much harm as part of Alien based Council since he can be easy outvoted by rest if necessary.
#253
Posté 18 octobre 2010 - 03:44
Sviken
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[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...
[quote]Only by our technology, but the geth and the Protheans both are known to be very capable technologically, even beyond the Council.[/quote][/quote]
The ship was way beyond geth technology and the ship was highly unlikely to be a Prothean ship. And where would Saren find a Prothean ship?
[quote][quote]2. Benezia and Saren reference the Reapers in their conversation.[/quote][/quote]If i remember correctly, they were all alone. Even if they said that to fool the geth, don't you think that the Council should know that the geth need more than just a few words?
[quote]What the Geth believed... because Saren is a charismatic person telling them.[/quote]
Yeah, Saren told them... As i said, the geth need proof. Few words won't work. If the Council believes that Saren can convince the geth with a few words.... I don't know what to say.
[quote]Dreams are proof now? 'Visions' that even the Commander doesn't know the meaning of until four story missions later.
The info on the beacon lacks context of everything else. Shepard saw 'synthetics attacking organics.' Why couldn't that be a horror movie on a classic theme? Why do we assume it is in any sense accurate, considering it was made and intended for a completely different species with completely different thought processes?[/quote]
Why would Shepard lie about something like this? He is a Spectre and as such he preserves galactic stability. I think the least the Council and Udina could do is trust him on this.
[quote][quote]A previously unknown geth technology. How is this 'end of the world!'?[/quote][/quote] Well, i didn't know the geth have developed this kind of technology.
[quote][quote]Saren, always ambitious, finds a Prothean/pre-prothean AI dreadnaught Sovereign, loaded with advanced technologies. Seeing an opportunity, Saren goes to the Geth, preaching himself as its profit of this 'Reaper' and aweing them with its technology. Promises them advancement if they help him take the Citadel. Begins his war after the Beacon on Eden Prime, hoping to uncover a superweapon referred to as 'the Conduit' which he hopes, with Sovereign, will give him conventional firepower to break through to the Citadel.[/quote][/quote]Why would Saren attack the Citadel? Where would Saren find a Prothean ship? It's impossible. The geth won't believe until he has some proof.
[quote]A geth fleet attacks the Citadel with it. Does that make the Geth the same timeless abominations from deep space?[/quote]
It was way beyond geth technology. It destroyed four ships in like three seconds.
[quote]Only by our technology, but the geth and the Protheans both are known to be very capable technologically, even beyond the Council.[/quote][/quote]
The ship was way beyond geth technology and the ship was highly unlikely to be a Prothean ship. And where would Saren find a Prothean ship?
[quote][quote]2. Benezia and Saren reference the Reapers in their conversation.[/quote][/quote]If i remember correctly, they were all alone. Even if they said that to fool the geth, don't you think that the Council should know that the geth need more than just a few words?
[quote]What the Geth believed... because Saren is a charismatic person telling them.[/quote]
Yeah, Saren told them... As i said, the geth need proof. Few words won't work. If the Council believes that Saren can convince the geth with a few words.... I don't know what to say.
[quote]Dreams are proof now? 'Visions' that even the Commander doesn't know the meaning of until four story missions later.
The info on the beacon lacks context of everything else. Shepard saw 'synthetics attacking organics.' Why couldn't that be a horror movie on a classic theme? Why do we assume it is in any sense accurate, considering it was made and intended for a completely different species with completely different thought processes?[/quote]
Why would Shepard lie about something like this? He is a Spectre and as such he preserves galactic stability. I think the least the Council and Udina could do is trust him on this.
[quote][quote]A previously unknown geth technology. How is this 'end of the world!'?[/quote][/quote] Well, i didn't know the geth have developed this kind of technology.
[quote][quote]Saren, always ambitious, finds a Prothean/pre-prothean AI dreadnaught Sovereign, loaded with advanced technologies. Seeing an opportunity, Saren goes to the Geth, preaching himself as its profit of this 'Reaper' and aweing them with its technology. Promises them advancement if they help him take the Citadel. Begins his war after the Beacon on Eden Prime, hoping to uncover a superweapon referred to as 'the Conduit' which he hopes, with Sovereign, will give him conventional firepower to break through to the Citadel.[/quote][/quote]Why would Saren attack the Citadel? Where would Saren find a Prothean ship? It's impossible. The geth won't believe until he has some proof.
[quote]A geth fleet attacks the Citadel with it. Does that make the Geth the same timeless abominations from deep space?[/quote]
It was way beyond geth technology. It destroyed four ships in like three seconds.
Modifié par Mortis5, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:50 .
#254
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 07:39
anmiro
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At the end of ME1 the obvious choice is Anderson. At the end of ME2 its clear that neither of them were right for the job. Udina has the political smarts, but hes as ignorant as the Council. Anderson recognizes the Reapers as the real threat but doesnt know how to cut through the beaurocracy to do anything about it. If these two could work together they might actually get something done.
#255
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 10:42
Nightwriter
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Both candidates have proven they are capable of the position, but Udina has a lot more marks against him.
1. He demands the Council commit an act of war. This shows bad judgment.
2. He does not believe in the Reapers.
3. He almost costs us the galaxy when he sells you down the river.
So far, all I've seen is renegades saying Anderson is unfit because he is nice to you and believes you. That and defending Udina's disbelief in the Reapers, something renegades absolutely ridicule the Council for in their pro-Cerberus arguments.
I understand if renegades condescend Anderson's behavior toward you, but it is logically advantageous to have a Councilor who will be the most receptive to Shepard, since Shepard is the deciding factor for whether or not the galaxy is destroyed.
I think this is the greatest response post I have ever read.
1. He demands the Council commit an act of war. This shows bad judgment.
2. He does not believe in the Reapers.
3. He almost costs us the galaxy when he sells you down the river.
So far, all I've seen is renegades saying Anderson is unfit because he is nice to you and believes you. That and defending Udina's disbelief in the Reapers, something renegades absolutely ridicule the Council for in their pro-Cerberus arguments.
I understand if renegades condescend Anderson's behavior toward you, but it is logically advantageous to have a Councilor who will be the most receptive to Shepard, since Shepard is the deciding factor for whether or not the galaxy is destroyed.
Xilizhra wrote...
Specifically, the Dynamite one from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.Putting Anderson on the Council is like putting a fluffy bunny in a cage of pit vipers.
I think this is the greatest response post I have ever read.
#256
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 10:50
philiposophy
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It's a bit silly to sing TIM's praises for being the only one doing anything about the reapers, yet do no such thing for Anderson, imo.
#257
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 02:16
Dean_the_Young
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[quote]Mortis5 wrote...
[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...
[quote]Only by our technology, but the geth and the Protheans both are known to be very capable technologically, even beyond the Council.[/quote][/quote]
The ship was way beyond geth technology and the ship was highly unlikely to be a Prothean ship.[/quote]The Council doesn't know what geth technology consists of, and what the geth use for their military cost-benefit mass production (conventional geth bodies and ships) doesn't mark the upper extent of their capabilities. The US makes tanks, and the US makes humvees in far great numbers, but that doesn't mean a humvee is representative of a tank. (Or an aircraft carrier, come to it).
Why is it highly unlikely that Sovereign could be a prothean dreadnaught, when the Protheans are creditede with the same sort of technology in the Citadel and the relays?
[quote]
And where would Saren find a Prothean ship?[/quote]In space. Where else?
[quote]
[quote][quote]2. Benezia and Saren reference the Reapers in their conversation.[/quote][/quote]If i remember correctly, they were all alone. Even if they said that to fool the geth, don't you think that the Council should know that the geth need more than just a few words?[/quote]It was from a geth memory core. That sort of entails a witness.
Why do you assume that was the extent and limit of his words and persuasion? Do you think Saren convinced the Geth after leading them to a fight on Eden Prime? Because that's when the discussion took place.
[quote]
Yeah, Saren told them... As i said, the geth need proof. Few words won't work. If the Council believes that Saren can convince the geth with a few words.... I don't know what to say.
[/quote]How about starting with admitting that 'only a few words' is something no one else has suggested?
[quote]
Why would Shepard lie about something like this? He is a Spectre and as such he preserves galactic stability. I think the least the Council and Udina could do is trust him on this.[/quote]Shepard doesn't have to lie to not tell a fact. Heck, even Shepard admits that the vision doesn't make sense on... well, pretty much every occasion until you have all the pieces.
The Council thinks you are crazy, which is hardly an unreasonable fear after your mind was effected by alien technology. You make extreme claims with no proof.
[quote][/quote][quote] Well, i didn't know the geth have developed this kind of technology.[/quote]And... so? You didn't know anything about the Geth. And now you're an expert about what isn't their technology when you don't even know what their capabilities are?
[quote]Why would Saren attack the Citadel?p/quote]Power hungry.
[quote]
Where would Saren find a Prothean ship?[/quote]Where he found Sovereign. Duh.
If the Council knew, then Saren never would have found it first (or second, as the case may be). The galaxy is still uncovering lost Prothean artificats (you know, like the Beacon). Liara's entire job is about excavating Prothean sites to find new things.
[quote]
It's impossible. The geth won't believe until he has some proof.[/quote]He has an incredibly advanced ship. The fact that he has an advanced ship rather proves its not impossible to find an ancient ship..
[quote]
It was way beyond geth technology. It destroyed four ships in like three seconds.
[/quote]Smaller geth ships destroyed more ships in a smiliar amount of time. Prove its beyond geth technology, as opposed to a white elephant project (something super-powerful, but not economical to produce many of, or of the same capability).
And if it's a prothean vessel, prove it was beyond the technology attributed as having created the mass relays and Citadel.
[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...
[quote]Only by our technology, but the geth and the Protheans both are known to be very capable technologically, even beyond the Council.[/quote][/quote]
The ship was way beyond geth technology and the ship was highly unlikely to be a Prothean ship.[/quote]The Council doesn't know what geth technology consists of, and what the geth use for their military cost-benefit mass production (conventional geth bodies and ships) doesn't mark the upper extent of their capabilities. The US makes tanks, and the US makes humvees in far great numbers, but that doesn't mean a humvee is representative of a tank. (Or an aircraft carrier, come to it).
Why is it highly unlikely that Sovereign could be a prothean dreadnaught, when the Protheans are creditede with the same sort of technology in the Citadel and the relays?
[quote]
And where would Saren find a Prothean ship?[/quote]In space. Where else?
[quote]
[quote][quote]2. Benezia and Saren reference the Reapers in their conversation.[/quote][/quote]If i remember correctly, they were all alone. Even if they said that to fool the geth, don't you think that the Council should know that the geth need more than just a few words?[/quote]It was from a geth memory core. That sort of entails a witness.
Why do you assume that was the extent and limit of his words and persuasion? Do you think Saren convinced the Geth after leading them to a fight on Eden Prime? Because that's when the discussion took place.
[quote]
Yeah, Saren told them... As i said, the geth need proof. Few words won't work. If the Council believes that Saren can convince the geth with a few words.... I don't know what to say.
[/quote]How about starting with admitting that 'only a few words' is something no one else has suggested?
[quote]
Why would Shepard lie about something like this? He is a Spectre and as such he preserves galactic stability. I think the least the Council and Udina could do is trust him on this.[/quote]Shepard doesn't have to lie to not tell a fact. Heck, even Shepard admits that the vision doesn't make sense on... well, pretty much every occasion until you have all the pieces.
The Council thinks you are crazy, which is hardly an unreasonable fear after your mind was effected by alien technology. You make extreme claims with no proof.
[quote][/quote][quote] Well, i didn't know the geth have developed this kind of technology.[/quote]And... so? You didn't know anything about the Geth. And now you're an expert about what isn't their technology when you don't even know what their capabilities are?
[quote]Why would Saren attack the Citadel?p/quote]Power hungry.
[quote]
Where would Saren find a Prothean ship?[/quote]Where he found Sovereign. Duh.
If the Council knew, then Saren never would have found it first (or second, as the case may be). The galaxy is still uncovering lost Prothean artificats (you know, like the Beacon). Liara's entire job is about excavating Prothean sites to find new things.
[quote]
It's impossible. The geth won't believe until he has some proof.[/quote]He has an incredibly advanced ship. The fact that he has an advanced ship rather proves its not impossible to find an ancient ship..
[quote]
It was way beyond geth technology. It destroyed four ships in like three seconds.
[/quote]Smaller geth ships destroyed more ships in a smiliar amount of time. Prove its beyond geth technology, as opposed to a white elephant project (something super-powerful, but not economical to produce many of, or of the same capability).
And if it's a prothean vessel, prove it was beyond the technology attributed as having created the mass relays and Citadel.
#258
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 02:19
Dean_the_Young
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TIM looks for sign of the Reapers, attacks them and finds means against them, and has an organization behind him that gets results.philiposophy wrote...
It's a bit silly to sing TIM's praises for being the only one doing anything about the reapers, yet do no such thing for Anderson, imo.
Anderson looks for signs of the Reapers, quits all influence and means to get anyone to face them,andthen attacks organizations opposing them.
What has Anderson done as Councilor/General that was so productive he quite in disgust?
#259
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 02:21
Dean_the_Young
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There is already a war. Against a significant Citadel species, no less.Nightwriter wrote...
Both candidates have proven they are capable of the position, but Udina has a lot more marks against him.
1. He demands the Council commit an act of war. This shows bad judgment.
Why are two and three separate, when three resulted as a consequence of two?2. He does not believe in the Reapers.
3. He almost costs us the galaxy when he sells you down the river.
In my experience, most of those renegades blast the appeal of 'we'll have galactic unity if we destroy the base' despite all lack of Council help.So far, all I've seen is renegades saying Anderson is unfit because he is nice to you and believes you. That and defending Udina's disbelief in the Reapers, something renegades absolutely ridicule the Council for in their pro-Cerberus arguments.
#260
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 02:24
Nightwriter
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Ugh.
Why are renegades constantly telling me to be grateful to Cerberus for all they've done for me.
And yet they're not particularly grateful toward Anderson for how he's stuck by you.
Wait, wait. If Anderson went on an utter rampage and started killing people and experimenting on them, I bet you'd love him. I bet you'd LOVE him.
Yeah I see how it is.
Anderson weeps.
Why are renegades constantly telling me to be grateful to Cerberus for all they've done for me.
And yet they're not particularly grateful toward Anderson for how he's stuck by you.
Wait, wait. If Anderson went on an utter rampage and started killing people and experimenting on them, I bet you'd love him. I bet you'd LOVE him.
Yeah I see how it is.
Anderson weeps.
#261
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 02:27
Dean_the_Young
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Cerberus does it for you in the second game because you proved yourself right in the first game.
In the first game, Anderson believes in your visions because of... pre-service history?
'Yeah, Shepard has this crazy habit from smoking too much. He sees things no one else can...but it's always true, man! Always true! Now pass the pipe.'
In the first game, Anderson believes in your visions because of... pre-service history?
'Yeah, Shepard has this crazy habit from smoking too much. He sees things no one else can...but it's always true, man! Always true! Now pass the pipe.'
#262
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 02:29
Pacifien
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Don't really see why my Shepard has to be grateful to Cerberus for that considering it was the Illusive Man's choice to spend 4 billion credits to revive a dead man. And the Illusive Man wanted Shepard to be exactly as he was before he died, so if that Shepard feels like sticking it to the organization, that's what they get for ignoring Miranda's advice about a control chip.Nightwriter wrote...
Why are renegades constantly telling me to be grateful to Cerberus for all they've done for me.
Honestly, they revived someone who went up against their organization before. Hoping he'd fall in line and embrace the Cerberus way is a bit of a gamble.
#263
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 05:04
ciaweth
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I don't think there was any good choice for human council member. Personally, I like Anderson better as a human being, but both he and Udina are ineffective, at least up to the point in the plot we've seen so far.
Udina was correct about Anderson, in that he's not a diplomat, and that he shows an unfortunate tendency to let his fists (or guns) do the talking. See LotSB vids as an example--I don't care how much of an ass someone is, if you're any kind of diplomat, you don't punch someone for saying something you don't like.
Likewise, Anderson was correct about Udina. He gets mired in petty politics and bureaucracy, and doesn't seem to get much done. The Shadow Broker vids don't paint a pretty picture of him, either.
So yeah, in my opinion, they both suck. Anderson should have stayed in the military where he was doing well, and Udina never should have gotten as far as he did in the diplomatic arena. Here's hoping for a better option in ME3.
Udina was correct about Anderson, in that he's not a diplomat, and that he shows an unfortunate tendency to let his fists (or guns) do the talking. See LotSB vids as an example--I don't care how much of an ass someone is, if you're any kind of diplomat, you don't punch someone for saying something you don't like.
Likewise, Anderson was correct about Udina. He gets mired in petty politics and bureaucracy, and doesn't seem to get much done. The Shadow Broker vids don't paint a pretty picture of him, either.
So yeah, in my opinion, they both suck. Anderson should have stayed in the military where he was doing well, and Udina never should have gotten as far as he did in the diplomatic arena. Here's hoping for a better option in ME3.
#264
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 06:17
Nightwriter
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Pacifien wrote...
Don't really see why my Shepard has to be grateful to Cerberus for that considering it was the Illusive Man's choice to spend 4 billion credits to revive a dead man. And the Illusive Man wanted Shepard to be exactly as he was before he died, so if that Shepard feels like sticking it to the organization, that's what they get for ignoring Miranda's advice about a control chip.Nightwriter wrote...
Why are renegades constantly telling me to be grateful to Cerberus for all they've done for me.
Honestly, they revived someone who went up against their organization before. Hoping he'd fall in line and embrace the Cerberus way is a bit of a gamble.
Yeah but like anything, it's not Cerberus asking me to be grateful, it's Cerberus's fans. For instance, I'll say torturing people is kind of mean, they'll say I ought to be grateful to Cerberus I'm not dead.
Dean, why does there have to be a reason? Do you question everyone who places faith in you? I seriously never questioned Anderson's behavior until renegades started crying HE TRUSTS ME, UNACCEPTABLE!!!!
#265
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 06:20
Sviken
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[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...
The Council doesn't know what geth technology consists of, and what the geth use for their military cost-benefit mass production (conventional geth bodies and ships) doesn't mark the upper extent of their capabilities. The US makes tanks, and the US makes humvees in far great numbers, but that doesn't mean a humvee is representative of a tank. (Or an aircraft carrier, come to it).[/quote]
Yes, the Council didn't know much about the geth, but the ship certainly wasn't geth technology. It was just too technology advanced to be a geth ship.
[quote]Why is it highly unlikely that Sovereign could be a prothean dreadnaught, when the Protheans are creditede with the same sort of technology in the Citadel and the relays?[/quote]
Because the chances of finding a Prothean ship is one to zero. Besides, the chances of the ship not being wrecked are... pretty low. Also, the Council didn't even mention anything about the Protheans. They didn't even think about it.
[quote]In space. Where else?[/quote]
As i said, that's highly unlikely. Even if he finds a Prothean ship, it would most likely be wrecked. Prothean technology is also highly valuable. What's the point of Saren trying to destroy the Citadel? It makes no sense.
[quote]It was from a geth memory core. That sort of entails a witness.
Why do you assume that was the extent and limit of his words and persuasion? Do you think Saren convinced the Geth after leading them to a fight on Eden Prime? Because that's when the discussion took place.[/quote] I personally think that the geth won't be persuaded by some turian and a highly advanced ship. They need something Saren can offer. He has only Sovereign. What makes you think that the geth would believe Saren?
[quote]Shepard doesn't have to lie to not tell a fact. Heck, even Shepard admits that the vision doesn't make sense on... well, pretty much every occasion until you have all the pieces.
The Council thinks you are crazy, which is hardly an unreasonable fear after your mind was effected by alien technology. You make extreme claims with no proof.[/quote]
I'll agree with you on that. However, when Shepard realized what was going on, the least the Council could do is start an investigation. Saren already confirmed about their existence, they already saw a highly advanced ship, the geth followed Saren without a real reason... No wait! Because he is charismatic and he... told them. Do you seriously think the geth would be persuaded by Saren charisma? They are just artificial intelligences.
[quote][quote]And... so? You didn't know anything about the Geth. And now you're an expert about what isn't their technology when you don't even know what their capabilities are?[/quote]
[/quote]Well, don't you praise the geth a little too much? Yes, they are advanced, but this much? The Reapers and the geth have comparable technology? Wait... The Council thinks that the Prothean created the mass relays and the Citadel. Ok... They have the same technology as the protheans? Seriously, Sovereign was bigger than any other dreadnought ship... Citadel or not. LOL!
[quote]Power hungry.[/quote]
Power hungry? Why? He is a Spectre. He has all the power he wants. He can do anything.
[quote]Where he found Sovereign. Duh.
If the Council knew, then Saren never would have found it first (or second, as the case may be). The galaxy is still uncovering lost Prothean artificats (you know, like the Beacon). Liara's entire job is about excavating Prothean sites to find new things.[/quote]
Sovereign didn't even had a scratch on himself. The protheans vanished 50,000 years ago. If Saren really found a prothean ship, don't you think it would be a little more... wrecked? Check out the Collector cruiser in Mass Effect 2.
[quote]He has an incredibly advanced ship. The fact that he has an advanced ship rather proves its not impossible to find an ancient ship..[/quote]
And what exactly could he offer them? The ship?
[quote]Smaller geth ships destroyed more ships in a smiliar amount of time. Prove its beyond geth technology, as opposed to a white elephant project (something super-powerful, but not economical to produce many of, or of the same capability).[/quote]
Depends on what class ships you're talking about. Also, there is a vast difference in the size of the geth ships that attacked the Citadel and Sovereign.
[quote]And if it's a prothean vessel, prove it was beyond the technology attributed as having created the mass relays and Citadel.[/quote]
Can't prove it, but as i said like ten times already, the ship was in pretty good shape. I personally don't think a prothean ship can survive so long without a scratch.
The Council doesn't know what geth technology consists of, and what the geth use for their military cost-benefit mass production (conventional geth bodies and ships) doesn't mark the upper extent of their capabilities. The US makes tanks, and the US makes humvees in far great numbers, but that doesn't mean a humvee is representative of a tank. (Or an aircraft carrier, come to it).[/quote]
Yes, the Council didn't know much about the geth, but the ship certainly wasn't geth technology. It was just too technology advanced to be a geth ship.
[quote]Why is it highly unlikely that Sovereign could be a prothean dreadnaught, when the Protheans are creditede with the same sort of technology in the Citadel and the relays?[/quote]
Because the chances of finding a Prothean ship is one to zero. Besides, the chances of the ship not being wrecked are... pretty low. Also, the Council didn't even mention anything about the Protheans. They didn't even think about it.
[quote]In space. Where else?[/quote]
As i said, that's highly unlikely. Even if he finds a Prothean ship, it would most likely be wrecked. Prothean technology is also highly valuable. What's the point of Saren trying to destroy the Citadel? It makes no sense.
[quote]It was from a geth memory core. That sort of entails a witness.
Why do you assume that was the extent and limit of his words and persuasion? Do you think Saren convinced the Geth after leading them to a fight on Eden Prime? Because that's when the discussion took place.[/quote] I personally think that the geth won't be persuaded by some turian and a highly advanced ship. They need something Saren can offer. He has only Sovereign. What makes you think that the geth would believe Saren?
[quote]Shepard doesn't have to lie to not tell a fact. Heck, even Shepard admits that the vision doesn't make sense on... well, pretty much every occasion until you have all the pieces.
The Council thinks you are crazy, which is hardly an unreasonable fear after your mind was effected by alien technology. You make extreme claims with no proof.[/quote]
I'll agree with you on that. However, when Shepard realized what was going on, the least the Council could do is start an investigation. Saren already confirmed about their existence, they already saw a highly advanced ship, the geth followed Saren without a real reason... No wait! Because he is charismatic and he... told them. Do you seriously think the geth would be persuaded by Saren charisma? They are just artificial intelligences.
[quote][quote]And... so? You didn't know anything about the Geth. And now you're an expert about what isn't their technology when you don't even know what their capabilities are?[/quote]
[/quote]Well, don't you praise the geth a little too much? Yes, they are advanced, but this much? The Reapers and the geth have comparable technology? Wait... The Council thinks that the Prothean created the mass relays and the Citadel. Ok... They have the same technology as the protheans? Seriously, Sovereign was bigger than any other dreadnought ship... Citadel or not. LOL!
[quote]Power hungry.[/quote]
Power hungry? Why? He is a Spectre. He has all the power he wants. He can do anything.
[quote]Where he found Sovereign. Duh.
If the Council knew, then Saren never would have found it first (or second, as the case may be). The galaxy is still uncovering lost Prothean artificats (you know, like the Beacon). Liara's entire job is about excavating Prothean sites to find new things.[/quote]
Sovereign didn't even had a scratch on himself. The protheans vanished 50,000 years ago. If Saren really found a prothean ship, don't you think it would be a little more... wrecked? Check out the Collector cruiser in Mass Effect 2.
[quote]He has an incredibly advanced ship. The fact that he has an advanced ship rather proves its not impossible to find an ancient ship..[/quote]
And what exactly could he offer them? The ship?
[quote]Smaller geth ships destroyed more ships in a smiliar amount of time. Prove its beyond geth technology, as opposed to a white elephant project (something super-powerful, but not economical to produce many of, or of the same capability).[/quote]
Depends on what class ships you're talking about. Also, there is a vast difference in the size of the geth ships that attacked the Citadel and Sovereign.
[quote]And if it's a prothean vessel, prove it was beyond the technology attributed as having created the mass relays and Citadel.[/quote]
Can't prove it, but as i said like ten times already, the ship was in pretty good shape. I personally don't think a prothean ship can survive so long without a scratch.
#266
Posté 19 octobre 2010 - 06:48
Dean_the_Young
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[quote]Mortis5 wrote...
[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...
The Council doesn't know what geth technology consists of, and what the geth use for their military cost-benefit mass production (conventional geth bodies and ships) doesn't mark the upper extent of their capabilities. The US makes tanks, and the US makes humvees in far great numbers, but that doesn't mean a humvee is representative of a tank. (Or an aircraft carrier, come to it).[/quote]
Yes, the Council didn't know much about the geth, but the ship certainly wasn't geth technology. It was just too technology advanced to be a geth ship.[/quote]And you can prove this... how?
[quote]
Because the chances of finding a Prothean ship is one to zero. Besides, the chances of the ship not being wrecked are... pretty low. Also, the Council didn't even mention anything about the Protheans. They didn't even think about it.[/quote]Unlikely is not impossible. It was just as unlikely Saren would find Sovereign as he would find any other one-of-a-kind thing in the universe. By your current logic, Saren finding a live Reaper is impossible as well, and there is only one live reaper while there could potentially be many derilect Prothean vessels out there, just as there are Beacons recovered from time to time.
I seem to have a faint memory of prothean ship being thrown around as a possibility in ME1.
[quote]
As i said, that's highly unlikely. Even if he finds a Prothean ship, it would most likely be wrecked. Prothean technology is also highly valuable. What's the point of Saren trying to destroy the Citadel? It makes no sense.[/quote]Saren didn't want to destroy the Citadel, he wanted to capture it. Why do you think he was out to destroy it?
[quote]I personally think that the geth won't be persuaded by some turian and a highly advanced ship. They need something Saren can offer. He has only Sovereign. What makes you think that the geth would believe Saren?[/quote]Why wouldn't they?
And how are you a greater expert on the Geth than the Council without outsider perspective?
[quote]
I'll agree with you on that. However, when Shepard realized what was going on, the least the Council could do is start an investigation. Saren already confirmed about their existence, they already saw a highly advanced ship, the geth followed Saren without a real reason... No wait! Because he is charismatic and he... told them. Do you seriously think the geth would be persuaded by Saren charisma? They are just artificial intelligences.[/quote]Artificial intelligence doesn't mean that charisma (a category with many objective aspects) doesn't work: you even use it on Legion in the loyalty conflict, and if Shepard can sway Geth programming with nice words and charisma, there's no reason Saren couldn't as well. The Geth even have religious impulses, as demonstrated in Overlord. They aren't all-objective machines, nor would that prevent them from believing.
Charisma is based, in part, on reason and believability, and Saren has the existence of Sovereign to back up his claims.
The Council did start an investigation. They also found no proof supporting your claims of the Reapers.
[quote]Well, don't you praise the geth a little too much? Yes, they are advanced, but this much? The Reapers and the geth have comparable technology? Wait... The Council thinks that the Prothean created the mass relays and the Citadel. Ok... They have the same technology as the protheans? Seriously, Sovereign was bigger than any other dreadnought ship... Citadel or not. LOL![/quote]This is a hodgepodge mess of non-contradicting things.
There is no objective reason why the Geth can't have a superior understanding of Prothean technology, and thus technology in general, than organic races. They've had centuries to advance by the perfect scientific method without competing resource conflicts that distract from scientific development.
Citadel dreadnought size is limited by treaty, not capability to build bigger: see the Destiny Ascension, which is of a comparable scale to Sovereign. There is no reason to expect Geth to abide by Citadel limitations if they don't want to and see a better way.
[quote]
Power hungry? Why? He is a Spectre. He has all the power he wants. He can do anything.[/quote]No he can't, and who are you to say what he does or does not want?
[quote]
Sovereign didn't even had a scratch on himself. The protheans vanished 50,000 years ago. If Saren really found a prothean ship, don't you think it would be a little more... wrecked? Check out the Collector cruiser in Mass Effect 2.[/quote]No.
The Collector Cruiser is made to regularly fly through a debris field, and does do so. Of course it's going to look more beat up than a ship that could have been orbiting an unexplored planet (95% of the galaxy) in a tidy solar system with minimal debris or sitting in a forgotten dock/alcove for mellinia.
[quote]
And what exactly could he offer them? The ship?[/quote]The technology.
[quote]
Depends on what class ships you're talking about. Also, there is a vast difference in the size of the geth ships that attacked the Citadel and Sovereign.[/quote]And what does that prove? Only that the mass of tonnage was invested in Sovereign, and the rest dispersed... which is exactly what the Asari and the Citadel Fleet do with the Destiny Ascension.
This is actually an old fact of naval power balancing: big ship power isn't uniform with tonnage. One big ship with giant guns and armor with lots of smaller support is can often be better than multiple semi-big ships.
[quote]
Can't prove it, but as i said like ten times already, the ship was in pretty good shape. I personally don't think a prothean ship can survive so long without a scratch.
[/quote]Prothean e-zero manufacturing facilities survived intact on Mars despite gravity stress a tectonics. Beacons keep working. Even Vigil, not designed for endurance, still works.
Space is actually a very, very good place to store things. Very empty, very few stressor forces.
[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...
The Council doesn't know what geth technology consists of, and what the geth use for their military cost-benefit mass production (conventional geth bodies and ships) doesn't mark the upper extent of their capabilities. The US makes tanks, and the US makes humvees in far great numbers, but that doesn't mean a humvee is representative of a tank. (Or an aircraft carrier, come to it).[/quote]
Yes, the Council didn't know much about the geth, but the ship certainly wasn't geth technology. It was just too technology advanced to be a geth ship.[/quote]And you can prove this... how?
[quote]
Because the chances of finding a Prothean ship is one to zero. Besides, the chances of the ship not being wrecked are... pretty low. Also, the Council didn't even mention anything about the Protheans. They didn't even think about it.[/quote]Unlikely is not impossible. It was just as unlikely Saren would find Sovereign as he would find any other one-of-a-kind thing in the universe. By your current logic, Saren finding a live Reaper is impossible as well, and there is only one live reaper while there could potentially be many derilect Prothean vessels out there, just as there are Beacons recovered from time to time.
I seem to have a faint memory of prothean ship being thrown around as a possibility in ME1.
[quote]
As i said, that's highly unlikely. Even if he finds a Prothean ship, it would most likely be wrecked. Prothean technology is also highly valuable. What's the point of Saren trying to destroy the Citadel? It makes no sense.[/quote]Saren didn't want to destroy the Citadel, he wanted to capture it. Why do you think he was out to destroy it?
[quote]I personally think that the geth won't be persuaded by some turian and a highly advanced ship. They need something Saren can offer. He has only Sovereign. What makes you think that the geth would believe Saren?[/quote]Why wouldn't they?
And how are you a greater expert on the Geth than the Council without outsider perspective?
[quote]
I'll agree with you on that. However, when Shepard realized what was going on, the least the Council could do is start an investigation. Saren already confirmed about their existence, they already saw a highly advanced ship, the geth followed Saren without a real reason... No wait! Because he is charismatic and he... told them. Do you seriously think the geth would be persuaded by Saren charisma? They are just artificial intelligences.[/quote]Artificial intelligence doesn't mean that charisma (a category with many objective aspects) doesn't work: you even use it on Legion in the loyalty conflict, and if Shepard can sway Geth programming with nice words and charisma, there's no reason Saren couldn't as well. The Geth even have religious impulses, as demonstrated in Overlord. They aren't all-objective machines, nor would that prevent them from believing.
Charisma is based, in part, on reason and believability, and Saren has the existence of Sovereign to back up his claims.
The Council did start an investigation. They also found no proof supporting your claims of the Reapers.
[quote]Well, don't you praise the geth a little too much? Yes, they are advanced, but this much? The Reapers and the geth have comparable technology? Wait... The Council thinks that the Prothean created the mass relays and the Citadel. Ok... They have the same technology as the protheans? Seriously, Sovereign was bigger than any other dreadnought ship... Citadel or not. LOL![/quote]This is a hodgepodge mess of non-contradicting things.
There is no objective reason why the Geth can't have a superior understanding of Prothean technology, and thus technology in general, than organic races. They've had centuries to advance by the perfect scientific method without competing resource conflicts that distract from scientific development.
Citadel dreadnought size is limited by treaty, not capability to build bigger: see the Destiny Ascension, which is of a comparable scale to Sovereign. There is no reason to expect Geth to abide by Citadel limitations if they don't want to and see a better way.
[quote]
Power hungry? Why? He is a Spectre. He has all the power he wants. He can do anything.[/quote]No he can't, and who are you to say what he does or does not want?
[quote]
Sovereign didn't even had a scratch on himself. The protheans vanished 50,000 years ago. If Saren really found a prothean ship, don't you think it would be a little more... wrecked? Check out the Collector cruiser in Mass Effect 2.[/quote]No.
The Collector Cruiser is made to regularly fly through a debris field, and does do so. Of course it's going to look more beat up than a ship that could have been orbiting an unexplored planet (95% of the galaxy) in a tidy solar system with minimal debris or sitting in a forgotten dock/alcove for mellinia.
[quote]
And what exactly could he offer them? The ship?[/quote]The technology.
[quote]
Depends on what class ships you're talking about. Also, there is a vast difference in the size of the geth ships that attacked the Citadel and Sovereign.[/quote]And what does that prove? Only that the mass of tonnage was invested in Sovereign, and the rest dispersed... which is exactly what the Asari and the Citadel Fleet do with the Destiny Ascension.
This is actually an old fact of naval power balancing: big ship power isn't uniform with tonnage. One big ship with giant guns and armor with lots of smaller support is can often be better than multiple semi-big ships.
[quote]
Can't prove it, but as i said like ten times already, the ship was in pretty good shape. I personally don't think a prothean ship can survive so long without a scratch.
[/quote]Prothean e-zero manufacturing facilities survived intact on Mars despite gravity stress a tectonics. Beacons keep working. Even Vigil, not designed for endurance, still works.
Space is actually a very, very good place to store things. Very empty, very few stressor forces.
#267
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 07:31
azerSheppard
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Picking Anderson is a smart choice, since he already assigns Undina as his advisor, so we get a counselor who's got your back, and a politician who's got the counselors back(as in he takes care of the fallout)
#268
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 07:40
Ryzaki
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I go with Anderson. He has Udina for an advisor and I don't have to deal with the human council member and want to punch him in the face all the time. 
#269
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 09:05
Felene
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- 883 messages
The logical choice for human council member in terms of what?
To protect human interest? Or, to protect the interest for the galactic civilization? Or, to save Shepard's ass?
To protect human interest, Udina. He is a politician, and a very good one, he knows when to cut ties, backstab, sell favors, gain favors, fake a smile...etc. He did a good job as a ambassador for humanity, I will give him that.
To protect the interest for the galactic civilization, Anderson. He is the only person on Citadel Council who belive in the Reaper Threat.
To save Shepard's ass, Anderson. He won't backstab Shepard or betray Shepard or sell Shepard to the Council, that much is for sure.
In my playthrough I always choose Anderson for Council, Udina can get his job back as a ambassador for humanity as long as he doesn't cross Shepard again.
To protect human interest? Or, to protect the interest for the galactic civilization? Or, to save Shepard's ass?
To protect human interest, Udina. He is a politician, and a very good one, he knows when to cut ties, backstab, sell favors, gain favors, fake a smile...etc. He did a good job as a ambassador for humanity, I will give him that.
To protect the interest for the galactic civilization, Anderson. He is the only person on Citadel Council who belive in the Reaper Threat.
To save Shepard's ass, Anderson. He won't backstab Shepard or betray Shepard or sell Shepard to the Council, that much is for sure.
In my playthrough I always choose Anderson for Council, Udina can get his job back as a ambassador for humanity as long as he doesn't cross Shepard again.
