2287 réponses à ce sujet

[vometia]

I think the differences between the Eastern and Western branches of the BoS is how a lot of organisations tend to split into factions from within anyway: so whilst for the lore purist, Bethesda made a mistake (or were simply cavalier with the lore), from my perspective it makes them look more realistic. But although their goals have changed somewhat, they still have far more in common than not, and overall, all of them retain a rather insular and unhealthy attitude toward others.

[Loerwyn]

Leinadi wrote...
Some of my favorite parts of the faction politicking is that the main 3 factions will demand you to destroy the Brotherhood, and only 1 path has a diplomatic option available (and even then, it's completely through the Courier's work and agenda and you have to make the right choice when working with the BoS as well). They're a dangerous, if small, faction gone fanatical, and I'm glad that Obsidian recognized that.

Well, Chris Avellone (Lead writer of NV, I think) is the official-ish Fallout expert, having written the Fallout Bible, so I would hope he would recognise it

I just joined FotA! Yay! I'm... I don't know. I find the Wild Card quest to be very badly written and incredibly confusing. I've honestly no idea what I'm supposed to be doing with it.

[nikki191]

PetrySilva wrote...

Great, great game.

First time I started it I was going on the route of "I don't care about you, I care only about me". I admit, I played this way and I liked. I did "bad" things to "good" people, stole a lot of stuff, lost a lot of karma.
During 90% of the game I played like, but when I met Mr. House and the Strip I just could not continue with this way. I guess I realized that the whole things is way bigger than just me. For some reason, I started to do things differently, I started to do things for the "good" of the community.
Mr House was an interesting character, I would dare to say the only one during the game. Even with all of his speech about saving mankind, I never, never truly trusted in anything he was saying. I could have killed him, but I didn't; I could not take the weight of a whole city on my shoulders. So, as I could not see a better future for New Vegas with the NCR or with the Legion, or even with the Brotherhood of Steel, I had to act like I believed in Mr House's words.
I think the saddest moment in the game was when I had to destroy the bunker of the Brotherhood. Maybe I felt that way because I worked with the Brotherhood in Fallout 3, but hell, I don't really know why that feeling came to me.
The boss battler against Lanius, I think this is his name, was really hard, because I could not figure out how to start the final mission in Mr House's behalf and have my companions with me. So, I really had to work to defeat him.

For the gameplay, I saw happy and sad at the same time. Good thing they kept most of basics of the combat, bad thing they didn't care improving o lot of stuff that should have been improved, also I had trouble with a lot of bugs during the game.

Overall, it was a better game than Fallout 3 IMHO.

I was torn about the brotherhood as well and for some reason they decided to remove the option to find a diplomatic solution between house and the brotherhood (P.S. check on fallout nexus there is a mod to restore the option apparently the audio files, etc are still there just no way to activate them)

as for lanius i found the mission easy.. ...8 strength, weapon handling perk, 100 guns skill and an anti materiel rifle with armour piecing ammution used with a stealth boy aimed at his head. one shot one exploded head

[Leinadi]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Leinadi wrote...
Some of my favorite parts of the faction politicking is that the main 3 factions will demand you to destroy the Brotherhood, and only 1 path has a diplomatic option available (and even then, it's completely through the Courier's work and agenda and you have to make the right choice when working with the BoS as well). They're a dangerous, if small, faction gone fanatical, and I'm glad that Obsidian recognized that.

Well, Chris Avellone (Lead writer of NV, I think) is the official-ish Fallout expert, having written the Fallout Bible, so I would hope he would recognise it

I just joined FotA! Yay! I'm... I don't know. I find the Wild Card quest to be very badly written and incredibly confusing. I've honestly no idea what I'm supposed to be doing with it.

Josh Sawyer was the lead guy on Vegas, but yeah. He also has a lot of experience with the license having worked on the original cancelled Fallout 3 (where they definitely had researched the previous games). Chris Avellone only wrote for some characters I believe, the most noteworthy being Cass (though he wrote all of the companions in Dead Money).

I was torn about the brotherhood as well and for some reason they decided to remove the option to find a diplomatic solution between house and the brotherhood (P.S. check on fallout nexus there is a mod to restore the option apparently the audio files, etc are still there just no way to activate them)

It was a very good cut if you ask me because I really don't see how House would risk diplomacy where he would almost certainly be stabbed in the back by the Bos later on. It would seem much safer (for House I mean) to send the Courier to disable the BoS permanently and fits his agenda much better if you ask me. I'm glad they cut that option because I don't think House would risk such a shaky alliance considering the immense technology he's sitting on.

[Loerwyn]

Leinadi wrote...
Josh Sawyer was the lead guy on Vegas, but yeah. He also has a lot of experience with the license having worked on the original cancelled Fallout 3 (where they definitely had researched the previous games). Chris Avellone only wrote for some characters I believe, the most noteworthy being Cass (though he wrote all of the companions in Dead Money).

Sawyer was in charge of the project, but Avellone was in charge of the story and world. Both are pretty knowledgeable about Fallout, but Avellone is pretty much *the* Fallout guy, though.

[Elvis_Mazur]

nikki191 wrote...
I was torn about the brotherhood as well and for some reason they decided to remove the option to find a diplomatic solution between house and the brotherhood (P.S. check on fallout nexus there is a mod to restore the option apparently the audio files, etc are still there just no way to activate them)

as for lanius i found the mission easy.. ...8 strength, weapon handling perk, 100 guns skill and an anti materiel rifle with armour piecing ammution used with a stealth boy aimed at his head. one shot one exploded head

Good to know someone had the same feeling.

When I saw Lanius I was thinking that I should just shoot him, but something compelled me to talk to him. Nevertheless, I knew I would end up fighting him; slavers, all of them must die.

Also, when I killed Ceasar I really thought that the game would end there.

[Ponce de Leon]

I thought BoS East was left out of the loop for quite a while, explained in Fallout Tactics why... (check the intro), might be wrong though.



I liked how they made factions return from the old Fallouts though. The NCR, the Great Khans (both being originally from the same Vault, mind you), the Nightkin going crazy after the Master's "incident"... well, it was very well made, I may have played it only for 7 hours now, but I loved it more than the 80 hours spent in Fallout 3.

[Leinadi]

There are a few things I don't like about the Eastern BoS. First off is the idea that the BoS would send such a large detachment all across the country (a huuuuuge trek, especially in post-apoc Fallout) in the search of technology, when they had already been established as extremely isolationist. There were several very high-tech areas that were on the West Coast, some quite close to their base, that they held back on exploring due to how careful they were. That's also keeping in mind that they would obviously have deduced that areas like the Pentagon, hell, all of DC really, would've been prime targets for the enemies nukes. It just does not make sense to me at all.



Secondly is more of a general "feel" thing. To me, they took what was an interesting faction and made a splinter faction of it which was... a great deal less interesting, much less grey or "Fallout-y" overall. The way the game forces you to work with them as well just makes me think that Beth really wanted a cool/good faction for the player to identify with. Just was sort of... meh.



I think New Vegas mostly did good though I think that, even though we're on the West Coast again, there are perhaps a few too many references to places/people in the original games. The NCR returning makes a lot of sense but I thought it was a bit strange to see the Followers again after all this time, as well as the Khans. Those just felt like groups that would fade away.



But overall it doesn't bother me a whole lot since the factions are generally very well written and have interesting motivations behind them. It was cool seeing the Nightkind also, and in a greater role, even though we didn't see them in Fallout 2 (if I remember correctly).

[Dreadstruck]

Meh, I don't mind Bethesda at all. They were just ****** lazy when it came to F3 and recycled almost everything from the older games.
I think in one interview with Tim Cain, he even said that if Troika had won the rights for the series, they would have come with MUCH more interesting new factions, characters and backstories.
F3 for me was a wasted opportunity to show off many things that could have happened on the East Coast which were vastly different to the vest. They could have come with an all-new and original setting.

Knights in the shining armor and Optimus Prime contra Bad smelly guys in the black armor? Both taken from the old games and original context? Please.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 03 janvier 2011 - 08:14 .

[SupidSeep]

Fallout 3 = Oblivion in a nuclear wasteland.

"Boring, boring, BORING!"

[HoonDing]

FO3 and FO:NV, pot and kettle.

Modifié par virumor, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:13 .

[The Narrator]

no matter how much you love Fallout 3, it makes no Canonical Sense AT ALL.

[jsachun]

The Narrator wrote...

no matter how much you love Fallout 3, it makes no Canonical Sense AT ALL.

It's probably due to ongoing courtcase Betheseda's having with Interplay about who's & what intellectual propoperty the Fallout Series belongs to.

Besides I think the story is a lot more intersting than the Van Buren Project that Interplay was planning for FO3.

NV just trys to too much in a given space & time without going in to much depth at all about the factions involved major nor minor.

That same reason is probably the cause of all the bugs in the game.

It's hard to get too immersed in to the game, while there are so many distractions & paths that eventually all lead to same disapointing gameplay ending anyway.        

[Steingrimur Steingrimsson]

The Narrator wrote...

no matter how much you love Fallout 3, it makes no Canonical Sense AT ALL.

I agree with you, but it is only my personal opinion. Bethesda owns the Fallout license now and thus they are pretty much at liberty to write their own canon. When the Tanakh (the jewish version of the Old Testament), was canonized, I bet a lot of people were annoyed because of important texts that weren't included and because of texts that were. They just couldn't do any god damn thing about it, because they weren't the religious authority. I consider New Vegas a sequal to the original two games, and Fallout 3 a start of something new.

[Dreadstruck]

jsachun wrote...
It's hard to get too immersed in to the game, while there are so many distractions & paths that eventually all lead to same disapointing gameplay ending anyway.        

That depends. Every Fallout actually ends with the same boss battle (The Master, Frank Horrigan, Autunumn, Lanius), yet I don't hear people complaining about it, only in NV. You realize that in F3 it's the same BOS Transformers ending everytime too?

And given the fact that NV offers MUCH more endings(and even narrated) be it for major factions or minor, I say I don't really get your comparsion argument at all.

The story of F3 is one big recycled plot of F1 and 2, filled with cheap McGuffins(The GECK) and plotholes. They should lock Sawyer, Avellone and Emil (from Bethsoft) in the same room, and don't let 'em out until he learns how to write without plotholes of the size of truck.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:53 .

[HoonDing]

Be careful in your comparisons, because NV isn't devoid of plotholes either.

For instance, Caesar sending the Courier into the Fortress on an errand job instead of simply let one his men insert the chip... not to mention afterwards not even bothering to check up on what had gone on in there. Instead he trusts the Courier's word for it even if the Courier had previously been an enemy of the Legion.

That's a plothole on the level of Fawkes's "Lol can't go into purifier".

Modifié par virumor, 04 janvier 2011 - 03:03 .

[nikki191]

For me New vegas felt like a heavily modded total conversion of fallout 3.. and to me thats not a bad thing, for all the crashes and glitches (i hope they patch the critter/ground collision detection soon) i have loved it. it felt like fallout a lot more than fallout 3 did

[Dreadstruck]

virumor wrote...

Be careful in your comparisons, because NV isn't devoid of plotholes either.

For instance, Caesar sending the Courier into the Fortress on an errand job instead of simply let one his men insert the chip... not to mention afterwards not even bothering to check up on what had gone on in there. Instead he trusts the Courier's word for it even if the Courier had previously been an enemy of the Legion.

That's a plothole on the level of Fawkes's "Lol can't go into purifier".

I assume you are talking about the Cottonwood Cove?

Caesar's a nutjob with a brain tumor; not sure logic enters the equation. But I'll try.

Consider it tactically from Caesar's perspective.

-If he ignores you, at best you stay out of the fight, at worst you work for someone else.

-If he hires you and you try to help him, at best you clear his path to victory, at worst you die and get put out of the way.

-If he hires you and you go work for another faction, that's not much different than the worst case in the first instance.



The only real downside is if he hires you to do an important job one of his men could do and relies on you instead, but if you go to him with noprior dealings, consider what he has you do to start. He already had men die in the Securitron area, so it's an understandable gamble that he would want you to handle a problem that dangerous. He asks you to get the Boomers on his side, which is very reasonably something only you can do, since no one else has survived the bombardment to reach them.
I erm... didn't do anything past that, but if you get to that point he has reason to believe you're basically with him.

As for the faction hostility issues, it just looks more like an oversight to me. *shrugs*

Also, bear in mind that:
Ceasar and his major health issues - The brain tumor
He has blackouts...
He has lapses in memory...
He may (big may here) be a bit delusional (this is the only
justification for boosting Lanius to second in command... Even Caesar
knows he has no love for the 'idea' of the Legion yet he wants him to
replace him?)
Everything mentioned above could have some impact on his decisions
P.S.: I actually never stated that NV is perfect. It's just a VAST improvement in the writing factor.
Too bad Beth gave them only 2 years. if they had...let's say another 4 months, it would have been better then.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:20 .

[HoonDing]

^That's the same type of elaborate rationalizations I used to read on the Bethesda forum.

I think NV does some things better than FO3, and other things worse. But overall I had a much better time with FO3.

Modifié par virumor, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:49 .

[vometia]

virumor wrote...

I think NV does some things better than FO3, and other things worse. But overall I had a much better time with FO3.

I think that sums up my own feelings pretty well.  I couldn't hand on heart say one was better than the other: they both have their own strengths and weaknesses and beyond that, I think it's a subjective matter.  Overall I enjoyed FO3 more; I have no problem with people who disagree and say FNV was the better game for them, but a few insist on going further and declaring one or other as rubbish and its fans as plebs, which is a bit much really.

[Dreadstruck]

virumor wrote...

^That's the same type of elaborate rationalizations I used to read on the Bethesda forum.

I think NV does some things better than FO3, and other things worse. But overall I had a much better time with FO3.

Fair enough, I am not going to twist your hand behind the back or something(this isn't NMA and I ain't crossing that line). Just throwing in some input, that is all, no harm or offense intended.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 04 janvier 2011 - 07:19 .

[Loerwyn]

jsachun wrote...
It's probably due to ongoing courtcase Betheseda's having with Interplay about who's & what intellectual propoperty the Fallout Series belongs to

The courtcase is because Interplay have had trouble finding funding for Fallout Online before a certain date, and also because of misleading and supposedly unauthorised packaging being used for the reissues of the first 3 Fallout games (1, 2 and Tactics). It's not over ownership of the license.

virumor wrote...
I think NV does some things better than FO3, and other things worse. But overall I had a much better time with FO3.

Fallout: NV, to me, is what happens when you add the complexity of Fallout to the relative simplicity of Fallout 3. I would say that my Fallout 3 experience was more satisfying both immediately and in terms of variety. New Vegas is in many ways a superior experience, but I think it has just as many flaws and issues as 3 did, and the added complexity can make the game more of a chore rather than improving it. I would probably be able to go back to FO3 and have no issues with doing so.

I wouldn't say one is necessarily better than the other, though. I think FO:NV drags itself out quite a bit, though, and it's something I don't really like about it. 

nikki191 wrote...
it felt like fallout a lot more than fallout 3 did

Agreed.

[FreezaSama]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Fallout: NV, to me, is what happens when you add the complexity of Fallout to the relative simplicity of Fallout 3. I would say that my Fallout 3 experience was more satisfying both immediately and in terms of variety. New Vegas is in many ways a superior experience, but I think it has just as many flaws and issues as 3 did, and the added complexity can make the game more of a chore rather than improving it. I would probably be able to go back to FO3 and have no issues with doing so.

I wouldn't say one is necessarily better than the other, though. I think FO:NV drags itself out quite a bit, though, and it's something I don't really like about it.

See, I'm torn on the issue of Fallout 3 vs. Fallout: NV. Puely based on the storyline, I found New Vegas to be much more interesting. The problem, of course, was that there were just so many bugs and glitches that it was near-impossible to get through the game without something going wrong. I chalk that up to the fact that Bethesda is just an infinitely better developer than Obsidian. This isn't a recent development or anything. Obsidian has a rare talent for being handed perfectly functioning game engines (Knights of the Old Republic, for a less recent example), and still coming up with bug-riddled disasters when it comes time to go to retail. Fallout 3, while I found overall more tedious, wins out because of superior programming. I went through the entire game and had maybe, one technical issue... None of which was bad as say, an entire city failing to load because you killed a certain NPC and his HAT is no longer where it used to be. 

[Loerwyn]

FreezaSama wrote...
Obsidian has a rare talent for being handed perfectly functioning game engines (Knights of the Old Republic, for a less recent example), and still coming up with bug-riddled disasters when it comes time to go to retail.

Obsidian has also had a string of bad publishers. I'm not saying Obsidian are fault-free, but KotOR2 was like it was purely because of LucasArts - There was little Obsidian could do. They admitted some of the fault with Alpha Protocol, but Sega aren't a great publisher either and at the end of the day, it's their fault - not Obsidian's - that it's only had two or three patches to date. With New Vegas, Obsidian inherited an engine that's proven to be poor, i.e. Bethesda's modified Gamebryo engine. Gamebryo is fine, it's Bethesda who utterly screwed their version up - not Obsidian. Obsidian's modifications may have made it a little worse, though, but most of the faults are the doing of Bethesda.

FreezaSama wrote...
Fallout 3, while I found overall more tedious, wins out because of superior programming. I went through the entire game and had maybe, one technical issue... 

On the other hand, my experience has been the other way around. In 30hrs of Fallout: New Vegas, my only real issues have been because my graphics card died. I've had less than a handful of crashes, a number of minor bugs and that's it. Fallout 3 constantly CTD'd on me, blue screened frequently and so forth. Many times have my saves failed to work properly because something's gone wrong - My favourite being the Capital Wasteland deciding to have disappeared. My last save, before I uninstalled a few weeks ago, wouldn't let me escape from Rivet City. It's happened before, too.

[vometia]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

... With New Vegas, Obsidian inherited an engine that's proven to be poor, i.e. Bethesda's modified Gamebryo engine. Gamebryo is fine, it's Bethesda who utterly screwed their version up - not Obsidian. Obsidian's modifications may have made it a little worse, though, but most of the faults are the doing of Bethesda.

If my experience is anything to go by, the engine was cleaned up significantly between FO3 and FNV: the latter seems to run far more smoothly and doesn't have some of the very nasty savegame corruption that was widely reported with FO3.

On the other hand, they did a poor job of cleaning away the FO3-only cruft from the master file, apparently even leaving some of FO3's quests and scripts running, and they really horribly mangled the way the quests and dialogue work: to be fair, Bethesda's quest system lends itself to horribly mangled quests at the best of times, but Obdisian made a bigger mess of it than I've seen to date and obviously didn't bother testing the results of their aimless mucking about.