275 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

I don't know what is misleading with putting both on the cover, one to the right, one to the left or something. I have seen covers with girls on the cover that never appear in the game ( if you want to know and example google Spellforce pics, it is one of the best RPG/RTS I know), so that's a really weak excuse. And I don't think anyone asked for scantily clothed appearance either, so it is not a matter of taste either. Btw, a bit off-topic femHawke looks pretty masculine anyway with her haircut etc. It even took me a while to realize she is femHawke, I thought it was some young guy.

[mellifera]

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what is misleading with putting both on the cover, one to the right, one to the left or something. I have seen covers with girls on the cover that never appear in the game ( if you want to know and example google Spellforce pics, it is one of the best RPG/RTS I know), so that's a really weak excuse. And I don't think anyone asked for scantily clothed appearance either, so it is not a matter of taste either. Btw, a bit off-topic femHawke looks pretty masculine anyway with her haircut etc. It even took me a while to realize she is femHawke, I thought it was some young guy.

*facepalm*

[Matchy Pointy]

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what is misleading with putting both on the cover, one to the right, one to the left or something. I have seen covers with girls on the cover that never appear in the game ( if you want to know and example google Spellforce pics, it is one of the best RPG/RTS I know), so that's a really weak excuse. And I don't think anyone asked for scantily clothed appearance either, so it is not a matter of taste either. Btw, a bit off-topic femHawke looks pretty masculine anyway with her haircut etc. It even took me a while to realize she is femHawke, I thought it was some young guy.

A bit off topic as well, but I think the default femHawke looks awesome.

[aaniadyen]

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what is misleading with putting both on the cover, one to the right, one to the left or something. I have seen covers with girls on the cover that never appear in the game ( if you want to know and example google Spellforce pics, it is one of the best RPG/RTS I know), so that's a really weak excuse. And I don't think anyone asked for scantily clothed appearance either, so it is not a matter of taste either. Btw, a bit off-topic femHawke looks pretty masculine anyway with her haircut etc. It even took me a while to realize she is femHawke, I thought it was some young guy.

It is probably just my opinion. I don't think it's misleading at all, I simply feel as though it wouldn't look as good or appealing as box art that had neither of them. Unless, of course, femshep/femhawke was scantily clad.

[AlexXIV]

yukidama wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what is misleading with putting both on the cover, one to the right, one to the left or something. I have seen covers with girls on the cover that never appear in the game ( if you want to know and example google Spellforce pics, it is one of the best RPG/RTS I know), so that's a really weak excuse. And I don't think anyone asked for scantily clothed appearance either, so it is not a matter of taste either. Btw, a bit off-topic femHawke looks pretty masculine anyway with her haircut etc. It even took me a while to realize she is femHawke, I thought it was some young guy.

*facepalm*

Well to my excuse it was the avatars not on screenshots and you have to admit it can happen ...

[AlexXIV]

aaniadyen wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what is misleading with putting both on the cover, one to the right, one to the left or something. I have seen covers with girls on the cover that never appear in the game ( if you want to know and example google Spellforce pics, it is one of the best RPG/RTS I know), so that's a really weak excuse. And I don't think anyone asked for scantily clothed appearance either, so it is not a matter of taste either. Btw, a bit off-topic femHawke looks pretty masculine anyway with her haircut etc. It even took me a while to realize she is femHawke, I thought it was some young guy.

It is probably just my opinion. I don't think it's misleading at all, I simply feel as though it wouldn't look as good or appealing as box art that had neither of them. Unless, of course, femshep/femhawke was scantily clad.

I think Bioware wants a 'face' to carry the merchandise. I agree they could just leave it blank or use companions/NPCs on the cover but obviously they figure it is better they way they do it. Even though many examples of successful RPGs without ever showing the protagonist say something different.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 13 décembre 2010 - 08:47 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

AlexXIV wrote...

I think Bioware wants a 'face' to carry the merchandise. I agree they could just leave it blank or use companions/NPCs on the cover but obviously they figure it is better they way they do it. Even though many examples of successful RPGs without ever showing the protagonist say something different.

Hmm.  Baldur's Gate, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, the KOTORs...trying ATM to think of others.

To be frank, I think this is a moot point when it comes to us, BioWare's core audience.  Those of us who are passionate about BioWare's games will take the thirty seconds out of our day to see if there's an option for female characters.  We'll also, you know, spend about three seconds reading the character creations screens in games like Mass Effect that contain a default protagonist.  Yay.  We know there's a female option.  Presto.  I do not feel personally offended that BioWare has Male Hawke on the cover, nor do I find it sexist.

It's more relevant to gamers who have less exposure to BioWare's games and don't do their thirty seconds of research beforehand to check out a game.  Which is a valid point--I know I window-shop Steam for games, and if it doesn't catch my interest, I pass it over without a second glance.  I don't have time to look into every game I think is vaguely interesting, even if it's basic things like whether I can play as a female protagonist.

[AlexXIV]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I think Bioware wants a 'face' to carry the merchandise. I agree they could just leave it blank or use companions/NPCs on the cover but obviously they figure it is better they way they do it. Even though many examples of successful RPGs without ever showing the protagonist say something different.

Hmm.  Baldur's Gate, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, the KOTORs...trying ATM to think of others.

To be frank, I think this is a moot point when it comes to us, BioWare's core audience.  Those of us who are passionate about BioWare's games will take the thirty seconds out of our day to see if there's an option for female characters.  We'll also, you know, spend about three seconds reading the character creations screens in games like Mass Effect that contain a default protagonist.  Yay.  We know there's a female option.  Presto.  I do not feel personally offended that BioWare has Male Hawke on the cover, nor do I find it sexist.

It's more relevant to gamers who have less exposure to BioWare's games and don't do their thirty seconds of research beforehand to check out a game.  Which is a valid point--I know I window-shop Steam for games, and if it doesn't catch my interest, I pass it over without a second glance.  I don't have time to look into every game I think is vaguely interesting, even if it's basic things like whether I can play as a female protagonist.

There is a saying.
 
Quote: "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time it's enemy action."

I know, I know a bit drastic in this context. Also I am a guy so I could care less.

But I think if I was a girl-gamer and Bioware fan I would feel disappointed and left out.

EVEN IF Bioware is doing more for female gamers than other companies, and EVEN IF female gamers are a minority.

It is only a matter of making your concerns heard.

As far as I know has accepting things as they are never led to any major changes.

 

[mopotter]

Matchy Pointy wrote...

elfdwarf wrote...

why don't we just put both female & male hawke on cover

Either both of them or none of them (preferably) is my opinion.

I'd actually rather not have had either of them also.  I really liked the image of the dragon with all the shadow figures.  Looking at all the game covers for games I keep, very few of them actually show the main character.  

[Avilia]

I didn't know I could create a female pc until I booted up ME and started character creation.  I read gaming mags and read a lot of reviews before buying.  As you can see from the date under my sig I did not come to ME early on.  I bought ME because ME2 interested me.

In all the previews/reviews etc I read at no time do I recall seeing it mentioned that Commander Shepard could be anything but male.

This is the same experience I had with Origins.

I took the requisite 30 seconds but still didn't know until I had already purchased the games.  Now you might say I should have also visited the forums, checked the wiki, etc etc.  Well I'd say - how much research should I have to do find out the simple fact that the player can run a female or male pc?

I did purchase the games anyway but I certainly wasn't that interested at release.  It took a coworker convincing me to try them both before I finally gave in and bought the games.  On sale.

[M8DMAN]

Im ok with a femhawke cover but it will probably not happen.



Box covers cost money.

[Crystal Raindrops]

AlexXIV wrote...

Btw, a bit off-topic femHawke looks pretty masculine anyway with her haircut etc. It even took me a while to realize she is femHawke, I thought it was some young guy.

No kidding, I'm definitely going to change her to look more femenine once I play the game.

[mopotter]

Avilia wrote...

I didn't know I could create a female pc until I booted up ME and started character creation.  I read gaming mags and read a lot of reviews before buying.  As you can see from the date under my sig I did not come to ME early on.  I bought ME because ME2 interested me.

In all the previews/reviews etc I read at no time do I recall seeing it mentioned that Commander Shepard could be anything but male.

This is the same experience I had with Origins.

I took the requisite 30 seconds but still didn't know until I had already purchased the games.  Now you might say I should have also visited the forums, checked the wiki, etc etc.  Well I'd say - how much research should I have to do find out the simple fact that the player can run a female or male pc?

I did purchase the games anyway but I certainly wasn't that interested at release.  It took a coworker convincing me to try them both before I finally gave in and bought the games.  On sale.

I had this with Fall Out 3.  in their overview of the game it says nothing about being able to choose your sex and when I first saw the ads for it, it just looked like another shooting game.  All of the DLC had been made available before I read, on here, that I could play as a woman, and I got all of it for the same as the special edition would have been if I had bought it originally, which I probably would have. 

The ONLY reason I didn't have the problem with ME was I do belong to the bioware group, and even with that, it took Chris saying more than once to trust them, that we would be able to play as female Shepard.  It really should not have been that hard.   

[Addai]

Matchy Pointy wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what is misleading with putting both on the cover, one to the right, one to the left or something. I have seen covers with girls on the cover that never appear in the game ( if you want to know and example google Spellforce pics, it is one of the best RPG/RTS I know), so that's a really weak excuse. And I don't think anyone asked for scantily clothed appearance either, so it is not a matter of taste either. Btw, a bit off-topic femHawke looks pretty masculine anyway with her haircut etc. It even took me a while to realize she is femHawke, I thought it was some young guy.

A bit off topic as well, but I think the default femHawke looks awesome.

So do I.  That shot of her has been the most motivating screenshot to date.

[Sable Rhapsody]

AlexXIV wrote...

There is a saying.
 
Quote: "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time it's enemy action."

I know, I know a bit drastic in this context. Also I am a guy so I could care less.

But I think if I was a girl-gamer and Bioware fan I would feel disappointed and left out.

EVEN IF Bioware is doing more for female gamers than other companies, and EVEN IF female gamers are a minority.

It is only a matter of making your concerns heard.

As far as I know has accepting things as they are never led to any major changes.

 

I understand girl gamers are a minority--though really not that tiny of a minority.  And I understand that the industry skews towards guys.  But maybe it's because of the games I play and the people I game with--the market skew never particularly bothered me, tabletop or otherwise, marketing or whatever.  I'm a person who loves video games.  And happens to be female.  My personal tastes dictate what video games I play and pay attention to, not my gender.  

Or maybe it's just naive of me to think like that 

Avilia wrote...

I took the requisite 30 seconds but still didn't know until I had already purchased the games.  Now you might say I should have also visited the forums, checked the wiki, etc etc.  Well I'd say - how much research should I have to do find out the simple fact that the player can run a female or male pc?

I did purchase the games anyway but I certainly wasn't that interested at release.  It took a coworker convincing me to try them both before I finally gave in and bought the games.  On sale.

I tend to go straight for the forums, dev posts, and wiki instead of the "actual" marketing material.  I figure the fans are devoted enough that they scrutinized everything that comes out, and I'll get my most important information there.  The information's out there and quickly accessible, it just depends on knowing where to look.  

I think it's less an issue of sexism or whatever, and more of an issue of just getting the information to gamers.  Something as simple as adding whether you can play male or female to the game's info page alongside system specs or mentioning it on the back of the box might be just as effective--and less confuzzling--than putting two protagonists on the box art.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 13 décembre 2010 - 05:13 .

[shumworld]

DaewaNya wrote...

I just saw the signature edition and I'm interested in buying. So far, I don't care much of the box and all as I only buy my games in digital copy. But, if my little request was to be granted, maybe I'll buy a retail version...

As I only play a female character, would you please Bioware make some kind of dual cover box... The box art on the signature edition features male Hawk. I would be please to see, when you turn around, the same art with Female Hawk instead.

Anyone agree/cares?

[edit] I'd never thought to have so many replies and to bring a debate about LadyHawke's attention... So I'll just make my request a little more clear. All I want is a dual cover, like for example Red Alert 3. RA3 has a dual cover, the standard one everybody knows is this one. But when you turn around it, it becomes this
So I thought it couldn't hurt to do the same thing for DA2 and, when we are it, ME3. Or at least like someone suggests, make a downloadable picture so we can print it ourselves...
That's all, like I said, usually I don't care about retail version !  I'll certainly buy the signature edition, but for now it will be only digital one. If LadyHawke has to appear in the retail cover, then I'll buy for sure the retail version.

I see your point. It is quite flexible.

[Maria13]

Personally I wouldn't have phrased this as a 'little' request. 'Little' is a somewhat disempowering term, makes us into 'little women' with 'little requests' I would have said a 'reasonable request'. Sounds more solid and assertive.



But hey, I'm a screaming feminist banshee

[Sable Rhapsody]

Maria13 wrote...

But hey, I'm a screaming feminist banshee

Ah yes, "feminism."  The concept that women are somehow human beings and deserve to be treated as such.  We have dismissed these claims 

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

If they put a graphic on the front cover that switched from male to female, people new to the series would get confused and thing it was about a gender bending space adventure.

[AlexXIV]

The term feminist is also kinda looked at with prejudice. It is in truth nothing but fairness. People want to be treated fair and I don't like if I see something that I think is not fair. I don't think there is anything wrong with asking to be treated fair.

[AlexXIV]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

If they put a graphic on the front cover that switched from male to female, people new to the series would get confused and thing it was about a gender bending space adventure.

They should give Garrett Hawke Boobs and see how that confuses people.

[Addai]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

If they put a graphic on the front cover that switched from male to female, people new to the series would get confused and thing it was about a gender bending space adventure.

Or think it was an RPG with a customizable character?  *the horror*

I'm supposing that it just fits into the same marketing model as every schlock action movie ever made, because that's the demographic they are trying to draw in, the FPS male.

[Bullets McDeath]

Just put them both on the cover. Double the iconographic iconicness, plus it is a feature of the game so why not tell people about it on the box. Create Your Own Champion of Kirkwall!!



They seem to have spent more time on femHawke as a unique-looking character than they did with femShep in regards to dudeShep, so I really don't think it would be out of place for them to want to advertise both.

[ErichHartmann]

At this point I don't even care about the box art. However one BioWare employee giving us a single Marian Hawke desktop background simply takes a small percentage of their time.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Addai67 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

If they put a graphic on the front cover that switched from male to female, people new to the series would get confused and thing it was about a gender bending space adventure.

Or think it was an RPG with a customizable character?  *the horror*

I'm supposing that it just fits into the same marketing model as every schlock action movie ever made, because that's the demographic they are trying to draw in, the FPS male.

No, they wouldn't think it was an RPG with a customizable character.  They would be confused that the dude on the front turned into a girl.

You can tip your nose up at who plays the games if you'd like, but without them, you wouldn't be playing the game. ;-)  In general, I disagree with your description of them too.