275 réponses à ce sujet

[Funnyonion]

Hahaha, EA. Goodluck with that.



They'll do whatevers possible to get a few more sales.

[Tarahiro]

Thing is though, with MaleShep, it wasn't just the marketing. When starting a new game of ME1, the options are: John Shepard, Custom, Import. In a lot of cases unless people actually went to create their own character, they didn't know a female existed. It's like 'all we can see here is a man, that must be how we are supposed to play'.



Dragon Age did it better. They had the character creation gender selection in plain view.



I don't care if HairyHawke wants to hog the advertising as long as can see some LadyHawke too.

[Wulfram]

I don't mind the gender, but it would be nice to have another Hawke getting some of the limelight.

[Ziggeh]

Games like this find themselves in a wierd position. If you're selling a story with a very fixed protagonist, you have literally a hundred years of visual advertising to back up how you go about selling that concept. Maybe it's a cultural problem, but people, men and women and well practiced at empathising with the male protagonist. We have some experience in doing so with female ones, but it is far less extensive.

But a game like this, to sell a story as a personal narrative, but to have that narrative available to two distinct people, with variable faces. There are no rules for that, little to no previous experience, either with the marketers or the audience to which they market. It's not a concept I think they can successfully convey in the same way: in an image, an "at a glance" representation of the idea. Strong iconic images work better than slightly blurry ones you need to explain.

Should they experiment, build that "language"? Maybe, but it's a lot easier, and almost certainly more effective to go with what you know. I really don't think you can blame them for doing what works.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 11 décembre 2010 - 04:08 .

[Matchy Pointy]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Games like this find themselves in a wierd position. If you're selling a story with a very fixed protagonist, you have literally a hundred years of visual advertising to back up how you go about selling that concept. Maybe it's a cultural problem, but people, men and women and well practiced at empathising with the male protagonist. We have some experience in doing so with female ones, but it is far less extensive.

But a game like this, to sell a story as a personal narrative, but to have that narrative available to two distinct people, with variable faces. There are no rules for that, little to no previous experience, either with the marketers or the audience to which they market. It's not a concept I think they can successfully convey in the same way: in an image, an "at a glance" representation of the idea. Strong iconic images work better than slightly blurry ones you need to explain.

Should they experiment, build that "language"? Maybe, but it's a lot easier, and almost certainly more effective to go with what you know. I really don't think you can blame them for doing what works.

Well, I can't fall back on any research, but I have no trouble at all empathasing with a female protagonist.

[Tarahiro]

Maybe instead of featuring just HairyHawke on the images / adverts they could include both of them together. That way they still have a big hairy man in the advert, but they also have the other possible player character too.

[Ziggeh]

Matchy Pointy wrote...

Well, I can't fall back on any research, but I have no trouble at all empathasing with a female protagonist.

Indeed, as I say, we just have less experience in doing so.

Has anyone mentioned "Male Gaze" yet? It's been a while since I did that at uni, but it's rather relevant here.

[Ziggeh]

Tarahiro wrote...

Maybe instead of featuring just HairyHawke on the images / adverts they could include both of them together. That way they still have a big hairy man in the advert, but they also have the other possible player character too.

Think about what that looks like out of context. Forget that you know the game has a variable protagonist and just imagine what that image translates to in the way in which the majority of adverts work.

[Darkwingduck]

Nobody has mentioned the Male Gaze yet.

[fchopin]

Have a male Hawke on the front cover and female Hawke on the backcover.



Another idea is to have a 3d version on the front cover so it changes from male to female depending how you hold the cover.

[PsychoBlonde]

Shinian2 wrote...

I don't understand why someone would insist on only playing one gender in a game like Dragon Age. Assuming, of course, that you are playing more than one play-through.

Aesthetic preference, of course--it's the same reason why people want to customize their character's face/appearance.  That and we may not be interested in seeing every last bit of content--I never play the "dick" path either, although I probably play through the game more times than many people do.

[PsychoBlonde]

Darkwingduck wrote...

Nobody has mentioned the Male Gaze yet.

And how would you interpret male-version-on-the-cover as an aspect of this theory?  Since the main protagonist is very often featured prominently, presence on the cover could be construed as granting primary agency to whoever is featured there, yah?

You can certainly make a case for this even looking at the Jade Empire cover--Wu the Lotus Blossom IS featured, but we see a full-length body shot of her in her Sexayy Clothing, whereas we see a close-up of Furious Ming's face and hand and facial expression.  All three of the creatures under Wu's feet are staring directly up at her ****/undercleavage, too.

[DanaScu]

JConst wrote...

DanaScu wrote...

How many games are marketed with realistic female leads?

Someone should create a precedent. Why not Bioware?

DanaScu wrote...
On the other hand; have you noticed the "What's up with guys that play female characters?" and "lol, my friend is freakin' weird, he plays Female Shepard/Warden" threads that have been on these forums? 

No, cause I don't care about such threads. Who does?

DanaScu wrote...
So yes, a lot of players like eye candy. That doesn't mean they would play a game that had no other choice than a FemShep or FemWarden. 

Of course there must be a choice, but we talk about equal promotion of Male and Female Hawkes. 

Care about threads like that? No, I don't. Some people must care though, those thread very seldom die out from want of people posting in them. I do, however, like to read the mod's closing posts to see how much crap got through before it got shut down.

There isn't going to be equal promotion of female Hawke. Female Hawke doesn't have exaggerated body measurements and isn't wearing a chain bikini. The promotion is going to be the exaggerated leaping "fight like a Spartan" while wielding a flaming staff of ultimate destruction male Hawke. I don't think they'll show the "pulled back tactical" view for much the same reason; it isn't flashy enough. And it seems to be all about flashy.

[mopotter]

DaewaNya wrote...

I just saw the signature edition and I'm interested in buying. So far, I don't care much of the box and all as I only buy my games in digital copy. But, if my little request was to be granted, maybe I'll buy a retail version...

As I only play a female character, would you please Bioware make some kind of dual cover box... The box art on the signature edition features male Hawk. I would be please to see, when you turn around, the same art with Female Hawk instead.

Anyone agree/cares?

I would actually like to see both male and female Hawke on the box somewhere, and I'd probably pay a couple of extra dollars for a special duel cover art.  

The marketing people  just don't get that there are some people who won't buy the game if they can't play female, just like there are some guy gamers who won't buy a game if they have to play a woman. 

I've done it.  I didn't buy fall out or Divinity 2 because I didn't realize, until someone on the bioware forum mentioned it, that I could play a female.  I will play games as a male, I have Force Unleashed and force unleashed 2, but they are not my first choice in game purchasing.   

I know Bioware lets me play female, so I will purchase the game no matter what the cover is, but if I didn't know them I wouldn't automatically pick up a game that didn't indicate somewhere on the cover or advertising that I could play as well, me.  

One very very good thing, is they have shown Female Hawke in their video advertising and that is a very very good thing.  

[mopotter]

ThunderfoxF wrote...

They didn't do it for Shepard, so I wouldn't get my hopes up

 Very true, but they did have Fem Shepard in the guide book.  

[mopotter]

mousestalker wrote...

TeaCokeProphet wrote...

The target demographic is a male audience. They will advertise based on that. I'm not sure that societal/cultural bias against women comes into it, but I don't doubt the probability.

*Sarcasm*
And guys don't like to look at attractive women. That's why absolutely no advertising directed at men ever has any women in it. Guys just will not buy products with women on the cover.
/Sarcasm

you made me smile.  thank you.  

[upsettingshorts]

I don't buy games based on what is on the cover. If there's Dragon Age 2 with male Hawke and Dragon Age 2 with female Hawke on the shelf, I'm grabbing whichever one is closest to my hand.

[The Big Nothing]

Let's be honest: a woman couldn't take down the Chantry.

[mopotter]

Shinian2 wrote...

I don't understand why someone would insist on only playing one gender in a game like Dragon Age. Assuming, of course, that you are playing more than one play-through.

You miss out on some of the differences, albeit minor, between the genders. For instance the Elven alienage differences, the noble hunters for male Aeducan or Cullens reaction to you for a female mage.

If I have a game where I can play either, I will replay as male and if I have other classes I can be I'll play that too. But I usually only have however many male characters as there are romances.  (ME - 2 one for Liara and one for Ash; ME3 I have 2 new ones for Jack and Miranda.  All of my other Shepards are female.  

I know there are some one the forum who won't play female or won't play male, and I do tend to agree with you that they are missing a fun  part of the game just because of the romance options.  Games like Fall Out or Divinity 2 I just play female. 

[The Big Nothing]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't buy games based on what is on the cover. If there's Dragon Age 2 with male Hawke and Dragon Age 2 with female Hawke on the shelf, I'm grabbing whichever one is closest to my hand.

I'm grabbing whichever one fits more easily in my hoodie.

[slimgrin]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Why don't they just release like a Limited Edition with Lady Hawke. It can't be that hard!

Without a recognizable face for the cover, they're convinced it won't sell. Weird, since customizing your hero, gender and all, is a hallmark of Bioware's games.

~Edit for clarity~

Modifié par slimgrin, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:52 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't buy games based on what is on the cover. If there's Dragon Age 2 with male Hawke and Dragon Age 2 with female Hawke on the shelf, I'm grabbing whichever one is closest to my hand.

Sure--but there are people who like to browse for games on the shelves and they may make at least part of their decision on what to purchased based on assumptions they make from the way the game is marketed.  I kind of liked the old "New ****!" trailers because I knew (from famliarity with Bioware) that they were making an RPG, but I also understood that some people would probably see those trailers and assume Origins was God of War.