275 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

SelectMongoose wrote...

This is exactly what I hate about marketing. The whole 'If guys see a woman on the cover they'll run in the opposite direction, unless she's hot.'

And then when somebody points out that maybe they could advertise both leads. 'Oh no consumers are dumb and easily confused. If they see Lady Hawk they'll think that there are two Hawks because as we all know consumers are illiterate and therefore incapable of reading the information provided.'

I think that's Advertising 101, right?  Remember students, customers who like video games can't read and only choose games based on the cover picture, boys pick games with boy covers and girls pick games with cute little pink ponies on them not game information printed on the back.  <sigh>    

I actually like the cover on Dragon Age for the pc I got with my pre-order.  It's metal, has a red dragon on it, a picture of Morrigan and a vague figure in armor that could be anyone.  Much better than my ME covers.

If they don't want to put both Hawkes on the cover, than I much rather the don't put anyone on the cover.  The dragon with the empty figures would work for me.

[Ziggeh]

slimgrin wrote...

Without a single recognizable face for the cover, they're convinced it won't sell. Weird, since customizing your hero, gender and all, is a hallmark of Bioware's games.

It's about creating "iconic" imagery, giving people a very quick symbol to associate with. If you had multiple protagonists in the advertising, it would serve to dillute that initial image; The first thought could end up being "so who's the lead character?" rather than that old advertising trope "I want to be like that guy" (see this seasons drove of awful aftershave ad's for details). You can explain later, and sometimes posing a question might serve, but if you're after clarity of the symbolism, one guy makes a lot more sense.

Personally I'd like to see them tackle the customisation somehow, but I wouldn't know how it could be done quite as effectively.

[Addai]

I don't get it... femHawke IS hot. She's a lot hotter than Isabela IMO. But then I'm a chick so my vote doesn't really count.

[Liablecocksman]

I'm sorry to appear a little rude here, but: WAH WAH WAH.

What do you expect?
Bioware aren't even designing the covers, the publishers (EA) are.

They want a clear, iconic image to represent the main character. They want the good old "Wow, that guy is cool!" reaction, not the "There are two people here, in order to know more about this game, i need to read on the box, as I cannot be certain of who or what is going on.".

Why is that hard to understand?

Had their audience for the title been predominently female, you can bet your ass the face on the cover would be "FemHawke".

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:55 .

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

I don't get it... femHawke IS hot. She's a lot hotter than Isabela IMO. But then I'm a chick so my vote doesn't really count.

It does. Your casting guilt now, lol.

For a logo, I can envision the Dragon Age text in the middle, with Femhawke on one side and Male Hawke on the other.

[PsychoBlonde]

mopotter wrote...

I think that's Advertising 101, right?  Remember students, customers who like video games can't read and only choose games based on the cover picture, boys pick games with boy covers and girls pick games with cute little pink ponies on them not game information printed on the back.   

Well, keep in mind that the customer they're going for with the cover art is one who basically just wanders into the gaming store thinking, "huh, what can I get that'll entertain me this weekend while my GF is out of town?".  They are not going for a big emotional investment in the game.  They want an image that will get this hypothetical vaguely-disinterested customer to even pick up the box and look at the back.  Once they're holding it in their hands as a potentially interesting game, they are that much more likely to actually buy THAT GAME.  It's not that they think people are illiterate, it's that they know that you can't read the back of the box THROUGH the front of the box--and you'll see the picture before you CAN read anything.  The get-them-to-pick-it-up hook has to be very strong and 100% visual.

There are all sorts of schools of thought on how to accomplish this.  Standing out from the other offerings on the shelf is one way, but this can be difficult to arrange.  Having a large face on the cover can be a draw.

Personally I'd just go with MaleHawke or FemaleHawke by themselves if I were taking that approach because the assumption may be that Female Hawke is a COMPANION of some kind, and the last thing you need is someone complaining because they wanted their MaleHawke to be able to date her.  And since, despite our knowledge that there are MANY females who play Bioware games, the numbers from Origins indicated that the vast majority of players went with the standard Human Male Warrior route, we get the guy.  (And we're not talking "vast majority" only taking into account ALL the options--we're talking vast majority overall, more played male human warrior than played every other option COMBINED.)

[Addai]

Garrett is kind of dorky looking for my money. Marian could kick his ass with style.



I don't really care, tbh, but the logic that they have to use him as the icon because you can only put up a chick if she's hot fails. Don't a lot of guys play a female character so they can stare at a nicely rounded backside? So say the forumites, anyway. So give them a little preview of what they'll be staring at.

[mopotter]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Tarahiro wrote...

Maybe instead of featuring just HairyHawke on the images / adverts they could include both of them together. That way they still have a big hairy man in the advert, but they also have the other possible player character too.

Think about what that looks like out of context. Forget that you know the game has a variable protagonist and just imagine what that image translates to in the way in which the majority of adverts work.

All they would have to do is under the two figures write  "Who will YOU be?  and on the back where game information list some of the things you can choose.  Do you want be male or female; Rogue, Warrior or Mage; chose your companions to save Kirkwill or destroy those who trust you.  Bla bla bla....,  

[Ziggeh]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

How is Male Hawke even Iconic. Who actually thinks of him when they think of Dragon Age?

Everyone who's knowledge of DA2 is based purely on the advertising.

[Liablecocksman]

Addai67 wrote...

Garrett is kind of dorky looking for my money. Marian could kick his ass with style.

I don't really care, tbh, but the logic that they have to use him as the icon because you can only put up a chick if she's hot fails. Don't a lot of guys play a female character so they can stare at a nicely rounded backside? So say the forumites, anyway. So give them a little preview of what they'll be staring at.

While I certainly can't speak for everyone, I can speak for myself:
No.
Never. Not ever.

I'm sure many feel the same way.

[Ziggeh]

mopotter wrote...

All they would have to do is under the two figures write  "Who will YOU be?  and on the back where game information list some of the things you can choose.  Do you want be male or female; Rogue, Warrior or Mage; chose your companions to save Kirkwill or destroy those who trust you.  Bla bla bla...., 

Explaining your iconic imagery is dillution, but the first part of that "who will you be" is worth exploring; It's been done before, the trouble is what you're roughly saying with that is that who you play is critical to the game, which in this case is unlikely.

[Ziggeh]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

What advertising?

The advertising for DA2.

[Crimson Invictus]

Addai67 wrote...
Don't a lot of guys play a female character so they can stare at a nicely rounded backside? So say the forumites, anyway.

I'm pretty sure that is in many cases a desperate attempt to sound slightly more manly around others, since guys playing as female characters seems to be only a little more socially acceptable than being a furry to some people.

And no, I don't care about guys playing as a female character.

[Ziggeh]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...
What I'm saying is it's not to late to make a limited edition Lady Hawke Cover.

And all I'm doing is explaining why this is hugely unlikely.

I don't think it's a good thing, it's just what there is. I think it's boring, more than anything, to roll out the same tactics that everybody falls back on, but I appreciate there are good reasons they do.

[Ziggeh]

Liana Nighthawk wrote...

I'm pretty sure that is in many cases a desperate attempt to sound slightly more manly around others

While I stongly suspect there are multiple reasons guys do, I'd wager this is true more often than it's not.

[Addai]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

What advertising?

The advertising for DA2.

Sarcasim, my friend. They have hardly advertised beyond the internet. What I'm saying is it's not to late to make a limited edition Lady Hawke Cover.

The Gamepro cover featuring DA2 looked pretty good.  Had a shot of Garrett and Isabela staring moodily at the camera like you'd see for an action movie.  I suppose the marketing gurus might actually know what they're talking about, since Sarah Connor Chronicles got cancelled despite having two sexy female leads.  People want to see the man in charge and the female sidekick, not the other way around.

[Ziggeh]

Addai67 wrote...
since Sarah Connor Chronicles got cancelled despite having two sexy female leads.

The Fox network is virtually a synonym for bad programming decisions at this point.

[Saibh]

Honestly, the cover art doesn't bother me. They chose a face to portray, and I understand why they picked the male one.



All I really want is a better stand in marketing, and I haven't really felt left out by it so far. We haven't had a whole lot of information, period--I've seen female Hawke footage, and male Hawke footage. I haven't heard her voice, but we only just found out what male Hawke sounds like. Right now, I'm peachy keen with how Lady Hawke's been treated.

[slimgrin]

Bioware, you are so perfect...<3

Modifié par slimgrin, 11 décembre 2010 - 10:29 .

[upsettingshorts]

*suddenly wishes he could play Tomb Raider as a Young Indiana Jones instead of Lara Croft*

[mopotter]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

mopotter wrote...

I think that's Advertising 101, right?  Remember students, customers who like video games can't read and only choose games based on the cover picture, boys pick games with boy covers and girls pick games with cute little pink ponies on them not game information printed on the back.   

Well, keep in mind that the customer they're going for with the cover art is one who basically just wanders into the gaming store thinking, "huh, what can I get that'll entertain me this weekend while my GF is out of town?".  They are not going for a big emotional investment in the game.  They want an image that will get this hypothetical vaguely-disinterested customer to even pick up the box and look at the back.  Once they're holding it in their hands as a potentially interesting game, they are that much more likely to actually buy THAT GAME.  It's not that they think people are illiterate, it's that they know that you can't read the back of the box THROUGH the front of the box--and you'll see the picture before you CAN read anything.  The get-them-to-pick-it-up hook has to be very strong and 100% visual.

I do agree with you on this, and it means that the women, like me, who do play but who prefer to play a women when possible, will pass up on a game like ME for one that does show a female, so while they aren't losing a lot of sales, the could add more sales by giving some indication that you can play as either.  Of course I'm always on the boards so when Chris said we could play either I believed him. 

There are all sorts of schools of thought on how to accomplish this.  Standing out from the other offerings on the shelf is one way, but this can be difficult to arrange.  Having a large face on the cover can be a draw.

Personally I'd just go with MaleHawke or FemaleHawke by themselves if I were taking that approach because the assumption may be that Female Hawke is a COMPANION of some kind, and the last thing you need is someone complaining because they wanted their MaleHawke to be able to date her.  And since, despite our knowledge that there are MANY females who play Bioware games, the numbers from Origins indicated that the vast majority of players went with the standard Human Male Warrior route, we get the guy.  (And we're not talking "vast majority" only taking into account ALL the options--we're talking vast majority overall, more played male human warrior than played every other option COMBINED.)

My favorite BioWare game, KOTOR had my favorite cover.  Neverwinter Nights had my 2nd favorite cover.  Neither had the main character.   They probably are not missing a lot of sales, but there are people out there missing some good games because of their decisions.