275 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria13]

What is this wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

What is this wrote...

She get's enough attention, The artist and marketing need to set their priorities, Showing Fem Hawke and Male  Hawke in every Trailer and switching them out in every screenshot is unnessacary.  Why does she even need more attention anyways? What marketing decides to show is up to them inorder to maxismize sales without sacrificing budget on useless fan service. Fem Hawke not being on the cover isn't going to affect your game.

No exposure equals enough attention in your mind?

She does have exposure,
We have the screenshot of her and know what she looks like, you don't need anything else. You can get more exposure to her when you buy the game. not seeing what each of her animations look like pre release isn't a big deal as some of you make it out to be, i think they've already shown far too much of Hawke in general.

Thanks for telling us women what we need... You see we really didn't know before you came along...

[What is this]

Maria13 wrote...

What is this wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

What is this wrote...

She get's enough attention, The artist and marketing need to set their priorities, Showing Fem Hawke and Male  Hawke in every Trailer and switching them out in every screenshot is unnessacary.  Why does she even need more attention anyways? What marketing decides to show is up to them inorder to maxismize sales without sacrificing budget on useless fan service. Fem Hawke not being on the cover isn't going to affect your game.

No exposure equals enough attention in your mind?

She does have exposure,
We have the screenshot of her and know what she looks like, you don't need anything else. You can get more exposure to her when you buy the game. not seeing what each of her animations look like pre release isn't a big deal as some of you make it out to be, i think they've already shown far too much of Hawke in general.

Thanks for telling us women what we need... You see we really didn't know before you came along...

Because that's what i did, yup
My statment had everything to do with putting women in their place and pro male agenda rather than a marketing standpoint/ pointing out the diffrence between need and want
That's exactly what i did.

[Maria13]

Ah, I see and the fact that the so called 'marketing standpoint' favours males over females is simply incidental and nothing that should concern me... And of course, I have no idea of the difference between 'need' and 'want'... Well that explains it then...

[Stick668]

Heh. I'm imagining that old marketing image for KotOR with the half light, half dark-side PC.

"The choice is yours!" etcetera.

And now I'm imagining it with a half male, half female PC.

Yeah, that's not an easily misinterpreted can of worms any marketing department is going to touch with a standard issue ten-foot pole.

"As in most Bioware games, you play a gender-bender with multiple personality disorder. At your command, you have big guns, shiny swords, stringless bows, magic and space magic! You can get cozy with blue girls, black guys, bisexual elf spaniards, snarky australian witches, genetically enhanced australian actresses, bad-arse space marine chicks and are we absolutely sure nobody at Weasel News will get their hands on this copy?"

Modifié par Stick668, 12 décembre 2010 - 12:12 .

[ErichHartmann]

What is this wrote...

She does have exposure,
We have the screenshot of her and know what she looks like, you don't need anything else. You can get more exposure to her when you buy the game. not seeing what each of her animations look like pre release isn't a big deal as some of you make it out to be, i think they've already shown far too much of Hawke in general.

1 screenshot that's not even featured on the main DA website is lousy marketing.  And why do you even care? 

[What is this]

Maria13 wrote...

Ah, I see and the fact that the so called 'marketing standpoint' favours males over females is simply incidental and nothing that should concern me... And of course, I have no idea of the difference between 'need' and 'want'... Well that explains it then...

yes most gamers are male thus identify with a male character,
and obviously you don't know the diffrence between need and want because you don't need anymore Fem hawke exposure except knowing what her voice sounds like. This Little request the op wants is a big deal, and Apollo starfire's idea of Femhawke on the back is a much more reasonable request. you can call it sexism all you want, but that dosen't make it true. EA has a game to sell and it's marketings job to sell it. 

Oh and while we're asking for changes to the cover art can i request you also had Rogue hawke as well? As a Rogue player i feel it isn't fair Mage/warrior Hawke gets all the attention i don't think that it would be a big deal to redesign the cover art to my personal play style.

[What is this]

ErichHartmann wrote...

What is this wrote...

She does have exposure,
We have the screenshot of her and know what she looks like, you don't need anything else. You can get more exposure to her when you buy the game. not seeing what each of her animations look like pre release isn't a big deal as some of you make it out to be, i think they've already shown far too much of Hawke in general.

1 screenshot that's not even featured on the main DA website is lousy marketing.  And why do you even care? 

Devil's advocate mostly
How many screenshots do we have of Rogue Hawke or Mage Hawke? I think the actual game play classes are a bit more important than character customization.

[Sharn01]

Numerous threads asking why non human player options where removed from DA2 pretty much proves that character customization is important to a lot of people.

[What is this]

Sharn01 wrote...

Numerous threads asking why non human player options where removed from DA2 pretty much proves that character customization is important to a lot of people.

I think there would be 10x as many threads if bioware removed classes

[upsettingshorts]

If they replaced it with a skill based system at least one of those threads would be one I started containing my enthusiastic endorsement of the change.

[What is this]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If they replaced it with a skill based system at least one of those threads would be one I started containing my enthusiastic endorsement of the change.

Your Icon is simply amazing,
I can't disagree with anything you say

[PsychoBlonde]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If they replaced it with a skill based system at least one of those threads would be one I started containing my enthusiastic endorsement of the change.

Me too.  I don't care if my character is gimptastic now I can do everything! (sort of)

[Maria13]

What is this wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Ah, I see and the fact that the so called 'marketing standpoint' favours males over females is simply incidental and nothing that should concern me... And of course, I have no idea of the difference between 'need' and 'want'... Well that explains it then...

yes most gamers are male thus identify with a male character,
and obviously you don't know the diffrence between need and want because you don't need anymore Fem hawke exposure except knowing what her voice sounds like. This Little request the op wants is a big deal, and Apollo starfire's idea of Femhawke on the back is a much more reasonable request. you can call it sexism all you want, but that dosen't make it true. EA has a game to sell and it's marketings job to sell it. 

Oh and while we're asking for changes to the cover art can i request you also had Rogue hawke as well? As a Rogue player i feel it isn't fair Mage/warrior Hawke gets all the attention i don't think that it would be a big deal to redesign the cover art to my personal play style.

As they say: Quote your sources. 

You don't even know what my request is, do you? You are simply dismissing everything we say out of hand based on what you alledge is a knowledge of marketing... Point is this marketing is made by men to favour men, and sorry dude, that is sexism, you just don't happen to notice it because you are a man, and you don't care again because you are a man.  'Twere the boot on the other foot, this board would be chocker with indignant manhood.

[PsychoBlonde]

Would you look at this, mopotter, our civilized discussion earlier about the merits/downfalls of various marketing stances has been replaced with what appears to be an adolescent and a screaming feminist banshee.



Oh well.

[Liablecocksman]

Maria13 wrote...
As they say: Quote your sources. 

You don't even know what my request is, do you? You are simply dismissing everything we say out of hand based on what you alledge is a knowledge of marketing... Point is this marketing is made by men to favour men, and sorry dude, that is sexism, you just don't happen to notice it because you are a man, and you don't care again because you are a man.  'Twere the boot on the other foot, this board would be chocker with indignant manhood.

Again, I don't think the idea that making more money is better than making less money is sexist.
Had the market been predominately female, the cover-art would certainly feature the feminine version of Hawke.

[PsychoBlonde]

Liable****sman wrote...

Maria13 wrote...
As they say: Quote your sources. 

You don't even know what my request is, do you? You are simply dismissing everything we say out of hand based on what you alledge is a knowledge of marketing... Point is this marketing is made by men to favour men, and sorry dude, that is sexism, you just don't happen to notice it because you are a man, and you don't care again because you are a man.  'Twere the boot on the other foot, this board would be chocker with indignant manhood.

Again, I don't think the idea that making more money is better than making less money is sexist.
Had the market been predominately female, the cover-art would certainly feature the feminine version of Hawke.

There's actually an article up on the escapist about the Mass Effect 2 statistics (on Destructiod), and some of the devs have been on here quoting similar statistics for Dragon Age--how male human noble was by far the most popular character selection, for instance.  By the numbers, MaleHawke is your demographic base.

[Liablecocksman]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

There's actually an article up on the escapist about the Mass Effect 2 statistics (on Destructiod), and some of the devs have been on here quoting similar statistics for Dragon Age--how male human noble was by far the most popular character selection, for instance.  By the numbers, MaleHawke is your demographic base.

Exactly.
What should the publishers do, if not cater to the market?

[What is this]

Maria13 wrote...

What is this wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Ah, I see and the fact that the so called 'marketing standpoint' favours males over females is simply incidental and nothing that should concern me... And of course, I have no idea of the difference between 'need' and 'want'... Well that explains it then...

yes most gamers are male thus identify with a male character,
and obviously you don't know the diffrence between need and want because you don't need anymore Fem hawke exposure except knowing what her voice sounds like. This Little request the op wants is a big deal, and Apollo starfire's idea of Femhawke on the back is a much more reasonable request. you can call it sexism all you want, but that dosen't make it true. EA has a game to sell and it's marketings job to sell it. 

Oh and while we're asking for changes to the cover art can i request you also had Rogue hawke as well? As a Rogue player i feel it isn't fair Mage/warrior Hawke gets all the attention i don't think that it would be a big deal to redesign the cover art to my personal play style.

As they say: Quote your sources. 

You don't even know what my request is, do you? You are simply dismissing everything we say out of hand based on what you alledge is a knowledge of marketing... Point is this marketing is made by men to favour men, and sorry dude, that is sexism, you just don't happen to notice it because you are a man, and you don't care again because you are a man.  'Twere the boot on the other foot, this board would be chocker with indignant manhood.

THAT'S DEMOGRAPHIC LOL
You don't market wheel chairs to 20 year olds that doesn't mean it's ageism.
you don't market Tanning oil to black people that dosen't mean it's racism.
and i don't care what they market as long as i get the choice to play as a male.

Now what is you request? I was talking about OP's which is simply ridicolous, but im willing to listen what is yours?

[Greenishio]

Call me weird but as a woman, I like my game cover featuring attractive male with nice biceps and awesome beard.

[Crimson Invictus]

Greenishio wrote...
Call me weird but as a woman,

Okay, Weird But As A Woman. Whatever you say.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 12 décembre 2010 - 02:00 .

[Maria Caliban]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Would you look at this, mopotter, our civilized discussion earlier about the merits/downfalls of various marketing stances has been replaced with what appears to be an adolescent and a screaming feminist banshee.

Because posting merely to insult another poster is a great marker of maturity.

PsychoBlonde wrote...

There's actually an article up on the escapist about the Mass Effect 2 statistics (on Destructiod), and some of the devs have been on here quoting similar statistics for Dragon Age--how male human noble was by far the most popular character selection, for instance.  By the numbers, MaleHawke is your demographic base.

Source?

Yeah, a science fiction RPG/shooter has a predominately male customer base. Science fiction is also the only genre for books where male customers outnumber women. Dragon Age is fantasy and not a shooter, I expect that like World of Warcraft, about one-third of it customers are female.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 12 décembre 2010 - 02:13 .

[Altima Darkspells]

PsychoBlonde wrote...


There's actually an article up on the escapist about the Mass Effect 2 statistics (on Destructiod), and some of the devs have been on here quoting similar statistics for Dragon Age--how male human noble was by far the most popular character selection, for instance.  By the numbers, MaleHawke is your demographic base.

I'm not sure the ME1/2 statistics are anything to go by, either.  Remember, iconic Shepard was chosen fairly early, and pretty much no mention of a female Shepard was ever made in many, many, MANY videos with both games.  How many players were shocked to discover that Shepard could be anything other than Generic McActionGuy?  How many potential customers were alienated that it appeared to be another typical Rated M For Manly shooter?

Several people on the board have said that they were surprised that one could play as a female Shepard--one person only discovered the fact six MONTHS after the game was even released.  How many other potential female customers passed on the game in the same way?

It's a vicious cycle.  Despite forty percent of the video game market being made up by females, many companies try to pretend that they frankly don't exist.  However, if that growth occured despite the demographic being out-and-out ignored, what would happen if the fair sex were actually pandered to, for once?

People say that marketing is directed at males because they make up the majority of the market.  Fair enough, but conversely, one could say they only make up a majority because they're the only ones being targeted.

[idoless24]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...


There's actually an article up on the escapist about the Mass Effect 2 statistics (on Destructiod), and some of the devs have been on here quoting similar statistics for Dragon Age--how male human noble was by far the most popular character selection, for instance.  By the numbers, MaleHawke is your demographic base.

I'm not sure the ME1/2 statistics are anything to go by, either.  Remember, iconic Shepard was chosen fairly early, and pretty much no mention of a female Shepard was ever made in many, many, MANY videos with both games.  How many players were shocked to discover that Shepard could be anything other than Generic McActionGuy?  How many potential customers were alienated that it appeared to be another typical Rated M For Manly shooter?

Several people on the board have said that they were surprised that one could play as a female Shepard--one person only discovered the fact six MONTHS after the game was even released.  How many other potential female customers passed on the game in the same way?

It's a vicious cycle.  Despite forty percent of the video game market being made up by females, many companies try to pretend that they frankly don't exist.  However, if that growth occured despite the demographic being out-and-out ignored, what would happen if the fair sex were actually pandered to, for once?

People say that marketing is directed at males because they make up the majority of the market.  Fair enough, but conversely, one could say they only make up a majority because they're the only ones being targeted.

Second this, since I was one of the ones who didn't know you could play as a female until the game was a couple months old due to the marketing.

[Odin2040]

I bought Jade Empires because Wu was on the cover. I didn't know you could choose five other characters, three of them male.

[Ziggeh]

Liable****sman wrote...



Had the market been predominately female, the cover-art would certainly feature the feminine version of Hawke.

I actually not so sure that'd be the case. Or at least, it would have to be by some margin. Or the nature of the industry was irrevocably changed by the difference.

Women are used to being marketed to in the same way as men ("Used to" might be the wrong term, "practiced at" might be better), not so much the other way around. So I'm not certain at what point advertising would switch from "men and kinda women" to "women and not so much men".

What is this
wrote...
THAT'S DEMOGRAPHIC LOL
You don't market wheel chairs to
20 year olds that doesn't mean it's ageism.
you don't market Tanning oil to black people that dosen't mean it's racism.
and i don't care what they market as long as i get the choice to play as a male.

Yeah. Those are terrible analogies, not accounting for a sizable female player base.

They're marketing to both from the masculine perspective. I certainly wouldn't say this constituted sexism, but it's hardly equality. I imagine it's a terribly frustrating reality. I suspect you "don't care" because it's not something you've ever really come across.

So cut down on the glee a little, yeah? It's not a system that needs defending.

Altima Darkspells wrote...

People say that marketing is directed at males because they make up the majority of the market.  Fair enough, but conversely, one could say they only make up a majority because they're the only ones being targeted.

I suspect you're right, it probably is self perpetuating. Pretty much every medium does it however, it's just most have learnt a little nuance, gaming will too once it finds it's feet, it just seems slow to react and quick to copy. It's a bit of a lumbering beast, I suspect it's something to do with risk.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 12 décembre 2010 - 03:51 .