85 réponses à ce sujet

[Rockworm503]

"unwarranted popularity of Bethesda"



LOL

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I think Blizzard is still good their just getting greedy thanks to Activasion

It makes me facepalm when I see someone accuse Blizz of being greedy yet be totally blind to the fact that Bioware has become so much worse in that regard. Ok maybe Blizz is a little greedy releasing SC2 in 3 installments (however you dont put a game through a 10 year development cycle if your sole goal is profits) however if you would actually take notice of what Bioware is like nowdays you would see that they are a whole lot greedier than Blizz by a mile.

Just look at their products, the cut corners, the mounds of sub par DLC and the content that should have been released with the game however were cut just so they could charge extra for it as DLC, hell they even shortened the dev cycle on DA2 because they know that even though it will probably be a poor, buggy mess the fans will eat it up like the **** it is.

As you can probably tell from my post I would take Bioware from the "good" pile and post it in the "formerly good" pile, Bioware is no longer a good games developer however unfortunately when it comes to RPG developers they are the best we have, it is unfortunate that RPGs have sunk so low, the closest competition Bioware currently has is Obsidian and while they have shown that they can write a better story than Bioware (at least better than Bioware's current games) it is the other aspects of their games that let them down.




But really I would like somebody to create a list of the good RPG developers still around today as from what I can see the list is very short.

Hmm it seems I have forgotten about CDprojekt, these guys did show us they mean buisness with the Witcher and could be a good contender to rise to the top of the RPG market.

Totally agree with this, its amazing what an aparent change in company environment will do when you're bought out by a huge publisher.

While I personally didn't like The Witcher's combat thats not to say the game was bad by any means, just not for me. I'll be keeping an eye on CDprojekt's future titles.

It'd be nice if a publisher would allow Obisidian to actually finish and polish a game for once, though it's partly their own fault for signing contract lengths that they can't possibly complete in time.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Rockworm503 wrote...

cool story bro.

I upgraded my weapons maybe 3 times a playthrough. It wasn't that big a deal.

Yes but would you call it good game design?

[DukeOfNukes]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

It'd be nice if a publisher would allow Obisidian to actually finish and polish a game for once, though it's partly their own fault for signing contract lengths that they can't possibly complete in time.

You're kidding, right? SEGA forced them to go back and work on Alpha Protocol because it wasn't up to their "lofty standards" (you know, the 15 years of raping the Sonic franchise). As much as I want Obsidian to do amazing, they are the ones that are screwing it up, nobody else.

And seriously, what's with the BioWare bashing? You all are proclaiming them to be sell outs because they provide you, for free, content that would otherwise have simply been cut? Personally, I haven't found any of the DLC to be lacking (except perhaps the appearance & weapon packs for ME2). I didn't like the firewalker pack much either...but it's hard to complain about free.

I can't speak for the shortened development cycle of DA2...but don't you think you should AT LEAST see some gameplay footage before you start crying foul?

[Rockworm503]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

cool story bro.

I upgraded my weapons maybe 3 times a playthrough. It wasn't that big a deal.

Yes but would you call it good game design?

LOL look at my signature.. Look at my profile picture... Its obvious I hate Mass Effect *rolls eyes*
I don't make a habit of playing through a game 3 times if I think it sucks.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

It'd be nice if a publisher would allow Obisidian to actually finish and polish a game for once, though it's partly their own fault for signing contract lengths that they can't possibly complete in time.

You're kidding, right? SEGA forced them to go back and work on Alpha Protocol because it wasn't up to their "lofty standards" (you know, the 15 years of raping the Sonic franchise). As much as I want Obsidian to do amazing, they are the ones that are screwing it up, nobody else.

And seriously, what's with the BioWare bashing? You all are proclaiming them to be sell outs because they provide you, for free, content that would otherwise have simply been cut? Personally, I haven't found any of the DLC to be lacking (except perhaps the appearance & weapon packs for ME2). I didn't like the firewalker pack much either...but it's hard to complain about free.

I can't speak for the shortened development cycle of DA2...but don't you think you should AT LEAST see some gameplay footage before you start crying foul?

It goes both ways with Obsidian or any other independent developer for that matter. You are aware that developers sign a contract stating they can finish a game in a certain amount of time right?

You also aparently haven't done your homework in regards to Project 10 Dollar. I suggest you do that first before stating factually about content status. The situation with Shale being finished due to a delay of the PC version has very little to do with announcing day zero DLC for DA2. Thats not even bringing Warden's Keep into the discussion, again day 0 content, ready to be sold right out of the gate.

I've seen gameplay footage, albiet not official and of Varric's exaggerated section, and honestly, it wasn't impressive at all.

[Weiser_Cain]

I would have said bioware but it doesn't feel like they're advancing, they found a formula that works and they repeat.

Instead I'm going to go with Epic. Ok yes they make the same game over and over again too but their engine seems to be what they're really working on, and that is advancing.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

And seriously, what's with the BioWare bashing? You all are proclaiming them to be sell outs because they provide you, for free, content that would otherwise have simply been cut? Personally, I haven't found any of the DLC to be lacking (except perhaps the appearance & weapon packs for ME2). I didn't like the firewalker pack much either...but it's hard to complain about free.

Technically the Cerberus network wasnt free but more of an incentive to buy the game new (if you diddnt I believe it was $15 for the network?) but you are right and most of us who were probably going to buy the game new anyway cant complain however that doesnt change the fact that most of the DLC Bioware has released outside of the Cerberus network has been of poor quality and are little more than an attempt to squeeze that little bit of extra cash from their consumers (not to mention the totally horrible expansion called Awakening).

[Weiser_Cain]

I blame DLC for the lack of an editor or a proper expansion.

[ErichHartmann]

My favorites:

BioWare
Creative Assembly - Total War Series
Firaxis Games - Sid Meier ('nuff said)
CD Projekt - The Witcher

Dead favorites:

Sierra Entertainment - King's Quest, Police Quest, Space Quest
Lucas Arts - X-wing VS. Tie Fighter, all their graphic adventures, Jedi Knight series
Ensemble Studios - Age of Empires series
Black Isle Studios

On a side note /facepalm at the bashing.....get over it. 

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 17 octobre 2010 - 11:59 .

[AntiChri5]

Bioware.

Bethesda.

Bungie.

Obsidian.



How can CD Project be a good developer?

[LTD]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Oh please I never said that Bioware was clean but to say their more greedy than Blizzard? Pah.... Blizzard already has a money printer with WoW and yet its still not enough. How much content and the development cycle for SC2 is irrelevant. No one who isn't in it for the money makes a game and then splits it into 4 parts asking you to pay full price for each part.
If you want a good example Look at Rockstar and their GTA 4 DLC... Lost and The Damned + Ballad of Gay Tony are called DLC but their more like their own games. You can easily tell Rock* is not in it for the money.
Yeah I think Bioware are greedy too but I think thats EA mostly.
I don't buy DLC unless I'm REALLY sold on it and ME2's DLC sold me and I wasn't disappointed... Especially with Lair of the Shadow Broker. That is quality DLC and I felt like my money was worth it.
And while ME2 may lack in the story department it did get everything else right.

Um...so, esentially you accuse a corporation for beign greedy because they want  to make tons of money? Oh come the F on good sire. If you are in game industry, releasing AAA games with AAA advertising&production costs, "making lot of money" is what you need to do to survive. Your accusations are about as sane as calling somebody who breaths greedy for wanting more and more air. Luckily for us, keeping consumers pleased is often a good way to generate income:p 

Objectively speaking, Blizzard is easily the best Dev studio  out there.
Their determination to release nothing but carefully crafted quality stuff is admirable. Of course, they want to milk you for your  money while at it. Still, you never have to wonder wether or not it is a quality product  when buying a game by Bliz. Difference to normal game studios or Bioware's depresing and immoral DLC F-fest is pretty massive.

I find it odd how few developers end up pursuing similar path to  Blizzard's. It is  borderline ridiculous how every single new releaseby Bliz turns out into this..celebration of the birth of a new god-among-products:p Good reputation and strong brand  is an incredibly valuable thing to have..
..With that in mind, it is extremely difficult to understand why Bioware bites it's own leg with their terrible DLC releases. They have spend 15 years building a reputation not unlike what Blizzard has.. then they begin wrecking it with focusing on DLCs that exist only to  rip you off. It pisses off consumers and causes great harm to reputation.

When it comes to R.I.P category, Looking Glass all the way! Ultima Underworld, Thief, System Shock, Terra Nova. That is a LOT of influence and innovation brewed under a single roof. 

Modifié par LTD, 17 octobre 2010 - 01:33 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

Blizzard 1st, Bioware 2nd.

[Loerwyn]

Violetta92 wrote...
-DICE (Battlefield, Medal of Honor 2010)

I'm playing the Mirror's Edge card to refute this claim. It was an excellent game IMHO, and a breath of fresh air. It was also very polished, and it hasn't had a single post-release patch (The only one for the PC came out just before the game released). I've not played MoH2010's Multiplayer (Danger Close/EA Los Angeles/Whoever they were did single player), so I can't comment on it or the Battlefield series.

AntiChri5 wrote...
How can CD Project be a good developer?

Who? Oh, CDProjekt RED? They're good because their debut product is of outstanding quality and defied a lot of logic with their Witcher game (It's much better as the Enhanced Edition, but still). Even with its flaws, The Witcher shows just how well a no-name developer from a small European country with an unknown-IP (In the English speaking world at least) can do.

I'm going to throw these into the mix:
Larian Studios (Divinity series),
FunCom (The Longest Journey/Dreamfall),
Radon Labs (Now defunct; Drakensang),
Katauri Interactive (The latest King's Bounty series),
Rockstar North (Most of the Grand Theft Auto games).

A lot of people seem to be listing publishers rather than developers. Ho hum.

[Violetta92]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Why must we always blame EA?

We don't. We blame Activision too.

[AntiChri5]

Shal, you need more then one game to be considered a good developer. You need more then two or three. More then four.

As good as The Witcher is, it is one game, the strength of which is the story and the way it plays out and the options you get, and they outsourced the setting and story.

[Ghost Lightning]

Square Enix



Bioware



Infinity Ward



Ubisoft



Bethesda



Bungie (Even though all they have is Halo)

[Loerwyn]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shal, you need more then one game to be considered a good developer. You need more then two or three. More then four.
As good as The Witcher is, it is one game, the strength of which is the story and the way it plays out and the options you get, and they outsourced the setting and story.

As Slimgrin said, they have some *excellent* values (Such as supporting no DRM on their products) and CDProjekt, as a whole, are a very respected company in Poland - They don't get like that for nothing.

Going by what we've seen of The Witcher 2, I think it's safe to say that it'll be another brilliant game. CDPR are a good developer, and they proved it with one game.

Ghost Lightning wrote...
Bungie (Even though all they have is Halo)

I strongly suggest you look up Bungie's development history if you think they only have Halo.

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:15 .

[A Killing Sound]

Current Favs:



Rockstar Games (GTA4 and Red Dead made me take notice)

Capcom & Konami (both have been making good games for 20 years)

Ubi Soft (for Prince of Persia Sands of Time and Assassin's Creed)

Valve (Left 4 Dead is too addictive)



Former Favs:

Squaresoft (Not Square Enix)

IO Interactive (The early Hitman games and Freedom Fighters were awesome. Kane and Lynch not so much)

Nintendo (I still like Nintendo, but I feel that their best games were made in the 90's)

[Ponce de Leon]

Piranha Bytes (Gothic 1-3, Risen), Nadeo (Track Mania series), Related Designs (Anno 1701, Anno 1404) are some that come in mind that I haven't seen around. Europe power!

[Weiser_Cain]

Oh and Nintendo.

[Loerwyn]

Ascaron are no more, Slimgrin. I think they were saved by Kalypso, but they're no longer Ascaron. Not sure what's happened to Sacred or the other franchises they worked on.