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[Praetor Knight]

This thread aims to compare the two Battle Rifles, the Mattock and the Vindicator.

The rifles fill the role of mid-range combat perfectly, so I wondered between these two, which was better for Shepard and for squadmates to use?

  M-96 Mattock

Base Damage: 50.4
Shots per Heat Sink: 16

  M-15 Vindicator

Base Damage: 36.8             3-Shot Burst: 110.4
Shots per Heat Sink: 24



Obviously, the Mattock is beast for the Soldier class using either lvl4 AR, but what about for other classes that use Assault Rifles?

• The Mattock is a solid choice for any Shepard with Assault Rifle Training and Squadmates with access to Assault Rifles.
  
  For Vanguards, Infiltrators and Soldiers with any Cryo ammo evolution (Squad preferred), husks are insta-killed using the Mattock.
  
  In general, when you have access to both SMGs and ARs, the choice between them comes down to either using the:
  
  • Tempest & Vindicator (The Shuriken can be used as a substitute, and it has a hidden feature that allows for a high DPS)
    or
• Locust & Mattock

The reason the choice is between these two pairs is because the weapons can cover for the other and the choice can come down to which SMG is preferred.
Is there any real difference in performance in using it for yourself or for the squad? (Suppressing fire does not seem to affect the enemy, so doing more damage faster is then the better option for the squad, but which rifle?)

With its high damage per round, the Mattock has an easier time activating CC Ammo powers. Husks are instantly killed with one cryo round directly on health, saving on the number of rounds spent, especially on difficulty levels when Husks have armor. And Geth collapse more frequently with Disruptor ammo.
The Vindicator with its 3 round burst is still solid for squadmates to strip defenses with a nice amount of damage done, but the Mattock still seems to outshine it.
Also, which rifle provides better survivability for squadmates?

The Vindicator will empty the Thermal Clip with 8 trigger pulls, which can help the squadmates drop back into cover more often than the Mattock, but the Mattock can activate ammo powers more effectively with a higher base damage.
********************************************

LINKS:

sinosleep's weapon comparison compilation thread
sinosleep's video of the Mattock and Vindicator vs. Armor
WIP


Thanks everyone, for sharing your experiences.



Credits:
sinosleep
Bozorgmehr
JaegerBane
MisterDyslexo
Killjoy Cutter
imemoria
Athenau
kstarler

WIP, will be adding to list

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 23 janvier 2011 - 06:26 .

[tommyt_1994]

You can unload the clip of a mattock much more quickly though.

[Praetor Knight]

tommyt_1994 wrote...

You can unload the clip of a mattock much more quickly though.

Definitely in the hands of a highly skilled player, but for those who cannot or just do not want to, (like me sometimes) I imagine that the Vindicator could have a benefit also.

Say for a Sentinel or Adept which is more useful?

Also when I have used the Mattock I have let off an extra round or two into a dead but still standing merc often wasting 3-7 rounds in a heavy fight [spoiler alert] like on the Shadow Broker's Ship as that last door is being unlocked.

I also would like to know how the two weapons have performed in the hands of the squadmates? is there a difference?

[sinosleep]

Actually I directly compared the two in my weapon comparison compilation thread. Mattock won by a wide margin.

[godlike13]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Definitely in the hands of a highly skilled player

Or just about anyone who can use their index finger <_<.

Modifié par godlike13, 17 octobre 2010 - 06:50 .

[Praetor Knight]

sinosleep wrote...

Actually I directly compared the two in my weapon comparison compilation thread. Mattock won by a wide margin.

Great Vid, thanks for the link, I've watched many great comparisons on youtube,

the Mattock is very good for Shep I agree, especially with the weapon DMG of the passive power of the Vanguard, Infiltrator or Soldier (not in AR),

I would also like to ask if there is any noticable difference with say adept, engineer or sentinel in stripping defenses? or squadmates?

I tend to go soldier and I've not done extensive enough tests with other classes.

Also I'm on the 360 so I've had some trouble isolating ideal testing conditions to test the weapon loadouts and recording them. 

Cheers

[Praetor Knight]

godlike13 wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Definitely in the hands of a highly skilled player

Or just about anyone who can use their index finger <_<.

very true, but the 360 wireless controller can be a detriment, compared to a mouse in maintaining the Mattock's DPS

[tommyt_1994]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Definitely in the hands of a highly skilled player

Or just about anyone who can use their index finger <_<.

very true, but the 360 wireless controller can be a detriment, compared to a mouse in maintaining the Mattock's DPS

This. I sometimes don't like using the mattock because pulling the trigger like that isn't as easy as a mouse would be.

[tommyt_1994]

sinosleep wrote...

Actually I directly compared the two in my weapon comparison compilation thread. Mattock won by a wide margin.

Did  you test them against shields or barrier? I ask because AR's arent really made for armor and I would imagine the margin is smaller when firing against shields or barriers. The mattock is still superior though

[Kronner]

Vindicator looks much better than Mattock though, that has got to count for something.

[tommyt_1994]

Kronner wrote...

Vindicator looks much better than Mattock though, that has got to count for something.

it counts for consolers who can't get the most out of the mattock or for people wh don't like constantly feathering that trigger

[JaegerBane]

While it's interesting to note that the Mattock can't manage the same total damage output as the Vindicator, I can't really see any reason why you'd go for the Vindicator in the long run. The Vindicator's bursts are a lot easier to handle than spamming the Mattock but in reality, neither is that difficult.

For a soldier I'd say Mattock, hands down - AR allows you to get very close to the Mattock's absurdly high refire rate cap (750 rpm) whereas your hands are tied with the Vindicator, with it's strict enforcement of burst firing.

For any other character... It depends on how you play, I guess. The Mattock will still probably come out ahead after you've mastered shooting rapidly and accurately, but the Vindicator is probably easier to use to it's full potential.

[imemoria]

squadmates do a REALLY better job with vindicator, damage output wise. survivability is even.

[Bozorgmehr]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I imagine that the Vindicator could have a benefit also.

Say for a Sentinel or Adept which is more useful?

Interesting question. Mattock is superior pretty much all the way, but it's a bit too powerful. Going the caster route basically means, removing defenses before unleashing powers to finish. Problem I have with the Mattock is that you can easily kill enemies (unintentional) by pressing the fire button too liberally.

"Damn, I wanted to Throw that fool of this ridge! You spoiled all the fun Mattock, he's already death!"

[ashwind]

Zhe Mattock is so powerful that.... it almost feel like cheating 

Modifié par ashwind, 17 octobre 2010 - 10:14 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Mattock is definetly better than Vindicator.

Although I prefer to play with Avenger then Geth Pulse Rifle and Revnant

[Athenau]

The Mattock is superior in every way that matters. Much higher dps, much higher chance to stagger, much higher chance to proc ammo powers, more control (semi-auto means less overkill and less wasted shots).

While it's interesting to note that the Mattock can't manage the same total damage output as the Vindicator, I can't really see any reason why you'd go for the Vindicator in the long run

While there's a small advantage on paper for the Vindicator, the Mattock ends up using its ammo more efficiently because of the Vindicator's burst fire.

Modifié par Athenau, 17 octobre 2010 - 12:42 .

[fegede]

I hate the vindicator. 3 shot bursts on an assault riffle with low ammo capacity is not for me at all. What I like with the mattock is that you can adjust easily to the intensity of battle: the more you are in danger, the faster you will mash the trigger and the faster enemies will die. It also has an excellent ammo efficiency and it only takes a couple of clips to go from empty to full (and even less time to go from full to empty when the need arises)

[Athenau]

One thing I've noticed is that the game gives you more ammo per (enemy dropped) pickup when you're low. The Mattock starts out getting 11 rounds per pickup, but when you're low enough (haven't tested to see what the threshold is) you get 16. The frequency of drops also seems to increase when you start running low.

So the weapons with lower reserves are compensated somewhat with more/bigger drops since you tend to be running at a lower fraction of total ammo.

Modifié par Athenau, 17 octobre 2010 - 03:45 .

[Sailears]

The vindicator's sound effect is underwhelming - that's enough to put me off.

[Praetor Knight]

The sound certainly is underwhelming with the Vindicator, like it was supposed to be suppressed like the locust or something.



But it seems to be a better choice for the squad at least, it seems that there is a slightly higher DPS with with the 3-round burst to the semi-auto for the squad, as imemoria said in an earlier post.



Also, is it easier to activate ammo powers with the Vindicator or Mattock in the squad's hands? The Mattock kills so fast in a player's hands that I wonder how helpful CC abilities like Cryo, where it may simply be better to get max damage, but what about the squad? Does it really matter?

[MisterDyslexo]

When you have access to both SMGs and ARs, it comes down to either:

Tempest & Vindicator

Locust & Mattock

Personally I go with the second, but as a non-soldier the Vindicator-Mattock thing probably comes down to which SMG you prefer. With a Soldier though, its Mattock hands-down

[Athenau]

Also, is it easier to activate ammo powers with the Vindicator or Mattock in the squad's hands? The Mattock kills so fast in a player's hands that I wonder how helpful CC abilities like Cryo, where it may simply be better to get max damage, but what about the squad? Does it really matter

The Mattock is much, much better at procing ammo powers than the Vindicator, both for Shepherd and the squad. It's guaranteed to freeze with cryo, and it triggers the inferno fire dance and splash all the time. It basically has the same high proc chance as the pistols and sniper rifles, but with a much higher fire rate.

Modifié par Athenau, 17 octobre 2010 - 06:35 .

[ryoldschool]

Athenau wrote...

Also, is it easier to activate ammo powers with the Vindicator or Mattock in the squad's hands? The Mattock kills so fast in a player's hands that I wonder how helpful CC abilities like Cryo, where it may simply be better to get max damage, but what about the squad? Does it really matter

The Mattock is much, much better at procing ammo powers than the Vindicator, both for Shepherd and the squad. It's guaranteed to freeze with cryo, and it triggers the inferno fire dance and splash all the time. It basically has the same high proc chance as the pistols and sniper rifles, but with a much higher fire rate.

Mattock seems like that to me also on my Vanguard playthru, but I have never compared it because I don't like the ammo usage of vindicator enough to even test it.  Maybe somebody has done this?

[Praetor Knight]

Athenau wrote...

Also, is it easier to activate ammo powers with the Vindicator or Mattock in the squad's hands? The Mattock kills so fast in a player's hands that I wonder how helpful CC abilities like Cryo, where it may simply be better to get max damage, but what about the squad? Does it really matter

The Mattock is much, much better at procing ammo powers than the Vindicator, both for Shepherd and the squad. It's guaranteed to freeze with cryo, and it triggers the inferno fire dance and splash all the time. It basically has the same high proc chance as the pistols and sniper rifles, but with a much higher fire rate.

This is good to know, so I guess that if you want a bit more damage from the squad then the vindicator is the choice, but if you want to pop the enemy with ammo powers then the mattock is the choice.

I'm gonna respec with squad cryo to check that out today, I tend to ignore cryo with my builds