65 réponses à ce sujet

[jwalker]

Mattock. No doubt. It does a ludicrous amount of damage. Great at mid range, little recoil.

Vindicator to squaddies. They don't seem to take the advantages of the weapon.

Like the GPS, Jacob doesn't realize it has much better range and still charge angainst a mob without hesitation.

[RGFrog]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

stuff...
"Damn, I wanted to Throw that fool of this ridge! You spoiled all the fun Mattock, he's already death!"

ROFL, YES!!!! I do this all the time. Had to switch back to the Tempest for this reason... LOL

[Killjoy Cutter]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Athenau wrote...

Also, is it easier to activate ammo powers with the Vindicator or Mattock in the squad's hands? The Mattock kills so fast in a player's hands that I wonder how helpful CC abilities like Cryo, where it may simply be better to get max damage, but what about the squad? Does it really matter

The Mattock is much, much better at procing ammo powers than the Vindicator, both for Shepherd and the squad. It's guaranteed to freeze with cryo, and it triggers the inferno fire dance and splash all the time. It basically has the same high proc chance as the pistols and sniper rifles, but with a much higher fire rate.

This is good to know, so I guess that if you want a bit more damage from the squad then the vindicator is the choice, but if you want to pop the enemy with ammo powers then the mattock is the choice.

I'm gonna respec with squad cryo to check that out today, I tend to ignore cryo with my builds

For Husks (until they get protection beyond Health), I consider a Mattock with Cryo one of the best anti-Husk weapons.  Instant freeze, and freezing always kills Husks.

[Athenau]

Husk armor is weak, even on insanity. Mattock + cryo destroys them.

[Praetor Knight]

I tried out the mattock for myself and the squad with squad cryo in Garrus LM and Samara RM, I've been missing out,



it sure can be refreshing to try different tactics, only had trouble keeping the squad alive against the YMIR's on the Garrus LM, but the rest was fun.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I tried out the mattock for myself and the squad with squad cryo in Garrus LM and Samara RM, I've been missing out,

it sure can be refreshing to try different tactics, only had trouble keeping the squad alive against the YMIR's on the Garrus LM, but the rest was fun.

Those YMIRs are a real pain... the game is set to "teleport" your squad out into the open right next to you when the mechs "trigger", even if the squad was in cover or a bit behind you the moment before.

[Praetor Knight]

Decided to dust off this thread and update the OP, I will continue to add to it and I'm looking for more input from the community with these rifles.

Thanks again everyone.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I tried out the mattock for myself and the squad with squad cryo in Garrus LM and Samara RM, I've been missing out,

it sure can be refreshing to try different tactics, only had trouble keeping the squad alive against the YMIR's on the Garrus LM, but the rest was fun.

Those YMIRs are a real pain... the game is set to "teleport" your squad out into the open right next to you when the mechs "trigger", even if the squad was in cover or a bit behind you the moment before.

I've managed to put them back into cover on the furthest back platform only once, which actuallly was the only time I ever played through that section w/o a squadmate getting KO'd.



Back on topic, I choose the Mattock over the Vindicator all the time now, even when arming my squadmates. The stagger and ammo proc effects of the Mattock are too strong to pass up. Also, I personally find the Vindicator very inefficient w/o AR to ensure accuracy, because of it's very low effective shot count. While I feel this way to an extent with the Mattock, I feel that the single shot nature of the weapon makes it easier to save on ammo and overkill, esp. playing as a non-soldier.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 21 janvier 2011 - 07:03 .

[chester013]

Even with my Xbox controller, I go for the Mattock every time. Even with the odd missed shot it's still more efficient than the Vindicator on ammo and knocks the Reverent into a cocked hat in every way.



Performance wise we know it rocks for a Soldier, what I really like though is that it's made me switch weapons a whole lot more. 1st Solider play through, once I had the Rev that was it spammed it. Now I pick the tool for the job, most situations the Mattock is my go to gun, I save the Widow for Elites and Shotgun for some hilarious close up killing.



Tried the Mattock with an engineer though, was too powerful even on Hardcore. Once defences were stripped I could just hammer enemies down while they poked my drone. Took some of the fun out of it if I'm honest.

[Bozorgmehr]

I was surprised when I used the Vindicator instead of the Mattock the other day. The Vindi is still a pretty powerful weapon. Two burst will drop all (normal) enemy defenses - 3 burst will kill them. If we had the automatic fire option instead of burst only, it would be a great Mattock alternative IMHO.

[keboo]

I like Vindicator more, Mattock just isn't fun for me.

[MrDizazta]

I seriously hate the feel of the Vindicator. I love the feeling I get when I pull the trigger of the Mattock. I like to call it "controlled chaos."

[Praetor Knight]

keboo wrote...

I like Vindicator more, Mattock just isn't fun for me.

What do you like better about using the Vindicator?



***********************************************

I will continue to add to the OP, regarding the benefits of both rifles, to better compare the two.
I know from my use of it with the accuracy upgrade, the Vindicator is very deadly

But with the Soldier class at least, the Mattock is really awesome. The faster you can tap the trigger the faster you can clear a room, and it is easier for me to manage the ammo with it than with the Vindicator. Although that may simply be a matter of me needing to have better trigger discipline and picking my shots more carefully.

[tangmcgame]

I'll add that using the Mattock with the soldier is really, really nuts because of the AR bug. It's too powerful to be fun. Which I hate, because I love the Mattock. So, anyway, with a soldier, I opt for the Vindicator instead (I didn't care for the Revenant, restarted and took Claymore instead).

Modifié par tangmcgame, 21 janvier 2011 - 09:23 .

[Aimi]

The AR "bug"?

[tangmcgame]

The rate of fire on the Mattock is not reduced by Adrenaline Rush. It's insane the amount of damage you can put out.

[kstarler]

Personally, I think I would like the Vindicator a whole lot more if the player could feather the trigger, like with the Shiruken, to imitate fully automatic fire. Pre-Mattock, I would usually switch back to the Avenger once I got the accuracy upgrade, because I always found the pause between bursts irritating. I should hasten to note that this was my experience from my first time through the game as a Soldier, and as a result, while I have fairly extensive knowledge of the Mattock across classes, my experience with the Vindicator is pretty limited, as I didn't care much for it from the outset.

[kstarler]

tangmcgame wrote...

The rate of fire on the Mattock is not reduced by Adrenaline Rush. It's insane the amount of damage you can put out.

As far as I know, this is not a bug, as it is quite easy to hit the RoF cap under Heightened AR (it is impossible to empty an entire magazine). However, I do agree that the RoF is pretty much game breaking for the Soldier.

Modifié par kstarler, 21 janvier 2011 - 09:50 .

[tangmcgame]

Perhaps it's not a bug, but it's certainly as over-the-top as Sylvester Stallone, in my opinion.

[Praetor Knight]

tangmcgame wrote...

Perhaps it's not a bug, but it's certainly as over-the-top as Sylvester Stallone, in my opinion.

I think it is considered a hidden feature, similar to the Shuriken feature,

and the Reload Trick for all weapons (but benefits the Claymore the most).

[keboo]

I've completed this game using Vindicator on insanity and never had any need for more firepower than I already have(fully maxed out Vindicator is a beast) and never really ammo shortage problems. It's low rate of fire can be increased quite a bit if you manually pull trigger. Mattock is just so overpowerd and ugly(actually whole Firepower pack seems overpowered and ugly[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]) it's not fun to play with.

Vindicator + Widow is enough for me.

Modifié par keboo, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:54 .

[JaegerBane]

kstarler wrote...

Personally, I think I would like the Vindicator a whole lot more if the player could feather the trigger, like with the Shiruken, to imitate fully automatic fire. Pre-Mattock, I would usually switch back to the Avenger once I got the accuracy upgrade, because I always found the pause between bursts irritating. I should hasten to note that this was my experience from my first time through the game as a Soldier, and as a result, while I have fairly extensive knowledge of the Mattock across classes, my experience with the Vindicator is pretty limited, as I didn't care much for it from the outset.

I'm of a similar mind on this - for me it's the fact it's burst-only. I prefer to have full control of the number of shots fired and hence I rarely find myself using bursts to their full effect. As you say, if it could be feathered or have some sort of selectable-fire I'd have a lot more time for it.

[CroGamer002]

I really dislike Mattock with Soldier class.

Game is too damn easy with it.

[implodinggoat]

Honestly the Mattock wins out as a weapon for the player in pretty much any scenario simply because it is much more ammo efficient than the Vindicator.



The reason why is a result of the number of rounds you get from a single thermal clip. On average a single thermal clip for the Vindicator is enough ammo to do around 650 damage while a single thermal clip for the Mattock is enough ammo to do nearly 1000 damage.



I really hope they balance these two weapons by reversing this in ME3. Due to the spectacular damage it can do during a single adrenaline rush against bullet sponge enemies the Mattock is clearly the more powerful rifle so it should likewise be the less ammo efficient rifle.



For ME3 I'd like to see the Vindicator's max ammo increased by 2 full clips and it's ammo per thermal clip increased by 20 to 30% while the amount of ammo per thermal clip for the Mattock should be reduced by 20 to 30%. This would balance the Mattock by making it the most ammo thirsty assault rifle and make the Vindicator a more viable option since it's better ammo efficiency would make it a better choice for dealing with large numbers of enemies in cover whereas the Mattock would trade ammo efficiency for the ability to rapidly down charging targets.



PS: For any class other than a Soldier I think assault rifle training is a poor choice since the lack of adrenaline rush makes the very ammo efficient, accurate and low recoil Locust more effective in the hands of non soldiers than any assault rifle (the Revenant is also very devastating outside AR; but non soldier can't use it anyway so it doesn't enter into the equation).