303 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Foolsfolly wrote...




I don't remember but I'm pretty sure you get Renegade points for selling him. I've only done it once on my "doomed" Shepard who died during the final mission.

I know thanks to the Mass Effect wikipedia that Legion breaks free of Cerberus if you sell him. He's got a dossier that tells you how. So it's just another failed Cerberus op.

And yeah, my Renegades always assume correctly that they could put Legion down if they need to. After all you've had to have killed 1,000 geth during ME1 alone. What's one more stripped of weapons and behind EDI's shielding?

As for not trusting the geth...I can't get a character in that mind frame. If Legion was a batarian however...then there's plenty of roleplaying (even on Paragon) who would have given him to Cerberus without a single thought.

I'm not too trusting of Cerberus... I mean they even botched Shep's resurrection. He runs with a funny limp. 

I have a few characters that don't trust Geth...but they always figured why Legion not take the shot? He must've had a clear view of their heads. (My Shep's wear visors). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 octobre 2010 - 06:06 .

[Foolsfolly]

They actually did screw up the resurrection op too. You tell the Illusive Man that Miranda killed Wilson and he already knew that Wilson was a traitor.



...



...then why was he on the team? That's a whole station full of crew and equipment lost because you put someone on the crew that you knew was a traitor? What?



It's things like that that make my Renegade Shepards want to strike out and lead their own organization. Because no one else is apparently smart enough to do it.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

More likely that Miranda contacted the Illusive Man when things went south at the base (before she killed Wilson) then proceeded to kill Wilson as soon as she saw him again.

[Arijharn]

I have to give credit to Cerberus for resurrecting me though. I mean, previously only the divine could do that, so well... Cerberus has moved on up in the world.



Pity about my leg though.

[Hyper Cutter]

Talogrungi wrote...

The thing that I dislike about Paragon options (in ME1) is that they typically resulted in additional content in ME2, whereas Renegade options didn't.

• Save the Rachni in ME1, you get some continuity dialogue in ME2 on Illium.
• Support Parasini in ME1, you get a tiny sidequest and some additional dialogue in ME2.
• Spare Fist in ME1 and you get a bonus encounter in ME2.
• Spare Helena Blake in ME1 and you get a bonus encounter in ME2.
• Help people in ME1, you get a variety of thank-you mails and such.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any Renegade ME1 decisions that resulted in exclusive ME2 content.
Admittedly, it's a minor grumble in the large scheme of things, but still a valid criticism in my opinion. Bioware does seem to favour Paragons in this.

To be fair, that's usually because dead people don't make cameos...

[Dave of Canada]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

To be fair, that's usually because dead people don't make cameos...

Killed Shiala or whatever her name is? Elizabeth could've shown up instead.
Killed the Rachni Queen? Binary Helix (is that the company?) should've been brought up.
Arrested / Killed Balak? Have it mentioned on the news instead of giving the default news story.
Killed the Council and replaced them with humans? Human council could've at the very least shown up. (I sort of understand why the Alien / Human council wouldn't want to see you and it wouldn't interfere with the default)


Ect

[Moiaussi]

Shandepared wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...So what do renegade players want exactly?

You know if you read the thread you wouldn't need to ask this question.

Neat, huh?

Re-read the thread Shand... you make a legiitmate point about 'equal time' but it is not a unanimous one among renegades. Some do hold the 'we want to be right sometimes rather than extra content' opinion.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

The thing that I dislike about Paragon options (in ME1) is that they typically resulted in additional content in ME2, whereas Renegade options didn't.

• Save the Rachni in ME1, you get some continuity dialogue in ME2 on Illium.
• Support Parasini in ME1, you get a tiny sidequest and some additional dialogue in ME2.
• Spare Fist in ME1 and you get a bonus encounter in ME2.
• Spare Helena Blake in ME1 and you get a bonus encounter in ME2.
• Help people in ME1, you get a variety of thank-you mails and such.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any Renegade ME1 decisions that resulted in exclusive ME2 content.
Admittedly, it's a minor grumble in the large scheme of things, but still a valid criticism in my opinion. Bioware does seem to favour Paragons in this.

To be fair, that's usually because dead people don't make cameos...

People in jail usually wouldn't either.

Why not paragon arrest and throw them away, never to see a key?

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Why not paragon arrest and throw them away, never to see a key?

Most of the time Shepard in in situations where taking prisoners is impractical. Doubly so in ME2 where his authority is questionable at best and mostly from the end of a gun.

[Dean_the_Young]

Leaving some of them alive is unreasonable as well, but the story allows for it.



I'm not saying every single one, but some? Yeah.

[mopotter]

bobobo878 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Renegades, I have the solution.
Stop killing people.

But it's fun to shoot people!  That's why they invented videogames in the first place.

nononono.  They invented video games so that I can leave the boring life of a common working person and become a hero saving the universe with my kindness and wisdom and super smarts. Also the ability to have my hair and makeup stay in place no matter what the situation.  

 

[mopotter]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I take a fair number of renegade decisions, to fun not to, and many of them make a good deal of sense.

Almost all the renegade interrupts people should take (except for Mouse, ouch).

I do like some of the renegade responses but I had to reload after Mouse and be kinder to him, it made me feel terrible, he just looked so sad:(.   

[GuardianAngel470]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Hyper Cutter wrote...

To be fair, that's usually because dead people don't make cameos...

Killed Shiala or whatever her name is? Elizabeth could've shown up instead.
Killed the Rachni Queen? Binary Helix (is that the company?) should've been brought up.
Arrested / Killed Balak? Have it mentioned on the news instead of giving the default news story.
Killed the Council and replaced them with humans? Human council could've at the very least shown up. (I sort of understand why the Alien / Human council wouldn't want to see you and it wouldn't interfere with the default)


Ect

 

Actually, one of the colonists do show up on Ilium. That's assuming you saved them.

[GuardianAngel470]

mopotter wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Renegades, I have the solution.
Stop killing people.

But it's fun to shoot people!  That's why they invented videogames in the first place.

nononono.  They invented video games so that I can leave the boring life of a common working person and become a hero saving the universe with my kindness and wisdom and super smarts. Also the ability to have my hair and makeup stay in place no matter what the situation.  

 

You're both wrong. They invented video games so that I could live out my childhood fantasy of crushing the disgusting mushrooms my parents made me eat under my shoe.

[R-Taco]

I mostly made Paragon choices myself, but I hope that ME3 doesn't just reward Paragons and punish Renegades. Stuff like killing the rachni queen only count as "hard choices" if there's a risk involved with both options.



I'd actually prefer if a couple major Paragon decisions backfired, but not all of them. That way both Renegades and Paragons would be equally valid playstyles, and the tough choices actually feel tough.

[mopotter]

Nightwriter wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

All I am trying to do is offer suggestions that would improve the game so that every player can enjoy it. I don't want to see paragon players "punished" in any real capacity. I'd like to see a few paragon decisions that don't turn out for the better, but I think that should be the exception not the rule. Paragon decisions should backfire only enough so that the player always has to think very seriously about what the consequences will be if they turn out to be wrong.

This part actually sounds very reasonable.

Yes it does.  And actually I agree with it.  All of my Shepard's are either semi balanced or close to paragon, but I really wouldn't mind if a couple of my ME1 & 2 paragon decisions come back to bite me in the butt.  The reapers take over the rachni - again - or destroying the base in ME2 makes it a little harder to win the war for whatever reason.  I still want to win, but it can be harder.    

[mopotter]

CalJones wrote...

As someone else said, it would have been better if, say, sparing Fist had resulted in him starting up a crime syndicate elsewhere.
Frankly, I would have liked to have heard that Balak committed another terrorist act (even as a primarily Paragon Shep I can never justify letting that bastard go, much as I feel bad for Kate Bowman).

 

I've done both, but Kate let her brother die because she didn't want to give Balak any information about Shepard so when I do kill Balak, I just figure she would understand.  

[mopotter]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

@ The Renegade Players:

I'm a Paragon player who wishes his Shepard's naivety would blow up in his face once or twice.

Me too.  And when I have ME3 and start playing all over from the beginning of ME1, I'll make those same decisions because they are the right ones at the time I'm making them.  Not sure this makes sense so I'm closing down.  I suppose by tomorrow I'll have another 20 pages to go.   A very interesting subject.

[Ryzaki]

How is sparing Fist a paragon choice? :/

I always kill him with my paragons...or Wrex does

/me percieved Paragon as giving mercy to those who had no idea of what they were doing/were being mindcontrolled

If you're dumb enough to shot at my Paragon with full control of your facilities he's shooting you back.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 03:28 .

[Elite Midget]

Renegades get the short end of the stick because Renegade options are very jerk-like and no one is going to come and pat your back for killing something. Why would Binary Helex care that the Rachni are gone? You accessed files you weren't supposed to see, saw what they were doing there, blew things up, and killed their pet project. If anything they're either out of business or want nothing to do with you.



Hey, my 'naive' Shepard was surprised in ME1 when Wrex killed Fist after I let him off the hook. That's a fine example that even if you do the right thing and bring the rivht guy for the job, Wrex was already on Fist's tail, that things aren't always going to happen the way you want.

[TuringPoint]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Karma is a superstition that seems reasonable by selective self-centric modeling that attributes a fallacy of correlating cause and effect to things the mind selectively remembers.

It's no more true than how depressed people can only see the bad things in life and ignore the good, while people in optimistic states of mind ignore and quickly forget annoyances and irritations.

Karma may be a superstition; however it is not entirely based on the fallacy of selective memory.  The idea of Karma in the strictest form is "wrong" and often leads to cruelty and stupidity, but the ideas that lead to a concept of Karma are based on valid gestalt reasoning and personal responsibility to others.

And there is truth to those mental states you mentioned.  They do exist and they do affect the world around us. Karma exists as an idea, and has the full influence of one when applied to some purpose. 

You may choose to only see the world in terms of cause and effect, and believe that's all there is to the universe, but that is, quite frankly, a very superstitious perspective.  It also seems to prescribe that all of human experience and the universe is linear, and only exists if it has purpose.

It may be valid to only focus on things which have direct purpose in some way, but that is one way to stop growing as a conscious, thinking being entirely. 

Modifié par Alocormin, 23 octobre 2010 - 04:14 .

[mopotter]

Ryzaki wrote...

How is sparing Fist a paragon choice? :/

I always kill him with my paragons...or Wrex does

/me percieved Paragon as giving mercy to those who had no idea of what they were doing/were being mindcontrolled

If you're dumb enough to shot at my Paragon with full control of your facilities he's shooting you back.  

This is why I can't play pure paragon, or renegade for that matter.  There are some choices that don't make sense to me.  I left Fist live once.  After that I killed him or, like you said, let Wrex do it.  If I could have arrested him I would, but I agree, letting him live isn't what I consider a paragon decision.

[chris025657]

Elite Midget wrote...

Renegades get the short end of the stick because Renegade options are very jerk-like and no one is going to come and pat your back for killing something. Why would Binary Helex care that the Rachni are gone? You accessed files you weren't supposed to see, saw what they were doing there, blew things up, and killed their pet project. If anything they're either out of business or want nothing to do with you.

This is why I feel there is a problem with the paragon/renegade system. Renegade decisions should have nothing to do with just being a jerk, as they often end up being in the game. Renegade should be about taking whatever steps necessary in attempts to achieve the greater good. The distinction between paragon and renegade should be about what becomes necessary and what is the greatest good and not whether one decision is jerk-like or not.

I feel there should be different balanced consequences for paragon/renegade decisions rather than the strict rewards for paragon decisions and punishment for renegade decisions. 

[SimonTheFrog]

Just had another moment of paragade-confusion (albeit in negligible circumstances): Reporter Wong asked me to share information on ongoing investigations for money. The game makes me choose between paragon (sure, sounds like a good cause) and renegade (no, i don't help you).

Hello?!

Shepard is investigating in crimes and stuff that is clearly of very sensitive matter. Leaking that to the press for a quick buck is everything else but "by the book", which is what paragon is about as well i figured. So, in this case it should be just the opposite: helping wong for credits should be renegade and saying "no, sorry, it's classified" should be paragon.

But the writers figured that "helping some NPC is paragon", no matter the circumstances whereas saying "no" is renegade. This is clearly more a view of paragon being a saint and renegade being a villain. But being dumb at the same time.



It's all pretty messed up.