72 réponses à ce sujet

[Weiser_Cain]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

Mike- Hawke wrote...

Why do lasers in Star Wars make sound and light?

because just because something is in space doesn't mean it won't produce sound and light?

that's like saying how come the sun gives off light, since it's in space...

you don't need, air, gravity, and surfaces just to create a sound or light... the sun makes alot of noise, it's just that there's a alot of space between us so that we don't hear any of it... 

It's not the space it's the vacuum.

[Pocketgb]

Do bullets actually travel in this game? I always thought it was just a graphical effect to make the hitscan mechanics look 'prettier'.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

Mike- Hawke wrote...

Why do lasers in Star Wars make sound and light?

because just because something is in space doesn't mean it won't produce sound and light?

that's like saying how come the sun gives off light, since it's in space...

you don't need, air, gravity, and surfaces just to create a sound or light... the sun makes alot of noise, it's just that there's a alot of space between us so that we don't hear any of it... 

It's not the space it's the vacuum.

what is vacuum? earth is in space, how come we don't have the space vacuum effect here on earth countering the doppler stuff?

[RobotNixon]

You guys fail science forever.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

RobotNixon wrote...

You guys fail science forever.

dude, science is one of my greatest obsession since i was in toddlerhood... 

i live and breath science, therefor i'm human... this vacuum effect should happen everyday, here on the planet earth since it's in space itself... that's like saying since airplanes fly 30, 000 ft (closer to space, space is actually 100, 000ft+)... that you shouldn't hear any of them because they're above the stratusphere, in a more vacuum area of the earth because they're above clouds, where as everything below clouds make a sound.

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 18 octobre 2010 - 06:57 .

[Whereto]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

RobotNixon wrote...

You guys fail science forever.

dude, science is one of my greatest obsession since i was in toddlerhood... 

i live and breath science, therefor i'm human... this vacuum effect should happen everyday, here on the planet earth since it's in space itself... that's like saying since airplanes fly 30, 000 ft (closer to space, space is actually 100, 000ft+)... that you shouldn't hear any of them because they're above the stratusphere, in a more vacuum area of the earth because they're above clouds, where as everything below clouds make a sound.

Face palm... i seriously suggest you give up science.Maybe im saying that as i can barely read what you write... 

[JRKnight]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Or not. The only thing that comes close to that acceleration is the Cain - and it generates a catastrophic explosion. Multiples of current muzzle velocity I'll accept - let's round up four times the speed of a modern battle rifle and call it 5,000 meters per second - but the recoil for 0.01c would rip your arms off your body.

Just wanted to point something out here; really depends on the mass of the battle rifle's rounds.

Look at like this; M-8 Avenger Assault Rifle- mass of each bullet 1 grain (unit of mass) Just a guess

Ek= (1 grain(0.065 grams) * (25,426.51 ft/s^2( 7750 m/s^2 )))= 1435 ft-lb or 1946 J
grams=kilograms (.065x10^-3) SI units

I don't think you'd suddenly wind up short one arm if you shot something like that.  That muzzle energy is about the same as, if not slightly higher, then that of the 5.56 NATO which has 1325 ft-lb.  Course the M-8's rounds probably fragment alot better.

[Raygereio]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
dude, science is one of my greatest obsession since i was in toddlerhood...

Meh, I'll bite.

You’re both right and wrong about the sound thing. There is sound in space as it isn’t a complete vacuum. Sound needs a medium to travel through and any medium will do; air, a brick wall or even the couple of molecules that float around in space. However, the sound vibrations that do manage to travel through space are extremely low in frequency, far below anything you can hear.
Now, that’s not the main issue. It was that a laser produced sound… which it can’t do as sounds are produced by vibrations. Lasers cannot cause vibrations. Period.

Next point; light. A laser cannot be directly compared to a sun. That’s like saying a F15 is the exact same thing as the Wright brother’s plane. Yes, technically they're the same thing. But they are a wee bit different in execution. The reason you can see a laser here on earth is because the light – which is being
transmitted in a coherent straight light – hits air molecules and bounces of in every direction – making it less coherent and more divergent and some of the light packages that bounce off eventually hit your eyeballs.
Now while space isn’t a complete vacuum (see above) there just aren’t enough molecules floating around for the light of a laser to bump into and bounce off in the direction of your eyes (If you were firing that laser a gas cloud it
would be something else, but let’s assume standard empty space). The only thing you should see is the reflection of the laser on the hull of the ship you’re firing against and even that is assuming the hull’s not only reflective, but shaped in a way the light can bounce of in your direction.

Modifié par Raygereio, 18 octobre 2010 - 07:21 .

[Christmas Ape]

It was that a laser produced sound… which it can’t do as sounds are produced by vibrations. Lasers cannot cause vibrations. Period.

The conventional explanation is 'rapid expansion of rapidly superheated atmospheric vapor', IIRC.

[Raygereio]

Christmas Ape wrote...The conventional explanation is 'rapid expansion of rapidly superheated atmospheric vapour', IIRC.

Fair enough. You could theoretically hear the resulting shock wave resulting from the heat transfer from a laser impact if the heat transfer is fast enough.
Though that only works if you're fighting in orbit low enough for there to be enough atmosphere to produce a shock wave. Also then the sound should play on impact of the laser "bolt" and not when it's fired, or as the bolt is travelling. Also the sound would a low pitched 'bwomph', not the high pitched 'pjew'. Also you'd still wouldn't be able to hear it from space, only from inside the atmosphere.
Also... oh, who cares anyway.

Have a Cain boom!

Modifié par Raygereio, 18 octobre 2010 - 08:15 .

[kalle90]

Walker White wrote...

The inconsistency regarding this issue was one of the worst things in ME1. The Mako could instahit any target, but Colossi attacks were so slow that they could be side-stepped. ME2 at least picked a consistent mythology, unlike ME1.

They use different tech...

And gameplaywise it's more fun to be able to dodge bullets. I wouldn't mind if Mako turret and rockets didn't hit instantly, but it's no big deal for me

[weedlink10]

Gleym wrote...

In other words, it's just yet another method to appeal to the FPS crowd.

:blink:oh loook another dumb quote, stop blaming FPS games for something that bioware did you didn't like, which FPS game out that has bullet travel, not halo, COD, rainbow six, far cry, half life, L4D, people should learn to stop saying dumb ****.

Modifié par weedlink10, 18 octobre 2010 - 09:33 .

[Foolsfolly]

weedlink10 wrote...

Gleym wrote...

In other words, it's just yet another method to appeal to the FPS crowd.

oh loook another dumb quote, stop blaming FPS games for something that bioware you didn't like, which FPS game out that has bullet travel, not halo, COD, rainbow six, far cry, half life, L4D, people should learn to stop saying dumb ****.

You just gotta let some of these fly past you, dude. There's a lot of these people on the boards. Them and the anti-console people.

There's like a few anti-ME2 tribes on this site:

-Console Ruined ME2.
-FPS players Ruined ME2.
-EA Ruined ME2.

I have no idea which tribe is the largest but dealing with them always ends with them calling victory and never listening to you. Just ignore them for the most part and hope BioWare does too.

[Christmas Ape]

JRKnight wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

Or not. The only thing that comes close to that acceleration is the Cain - and it generates a catastrophic explosion. Multiples of current muzzle velocity I'll accept - let's round up four times the speed of a modern battle rifle and call it 5,000 meters per second - but the recoil for 0.01c would rip your arms off your body.

Just wanted to point something out here; really depends on the mass of the battle rifle's rounds.

Look at like this; M-8 Avenger Assault Rifle- mass of each bullet 1 grain (unit of mass) Just a guess

Ek= (1 grain(0.065 grams) * (25,426.51 ft/s^2( 7750 m/s^2 )))= 1435 ft-lb or 1946 J
grams=kilograms (.065x10^-3) SI units

I don't think you'd suddenly wind up short one arm if you shot something like that.  That muzzle energy is about the same as, if not slightly higher, then that of the 5.56 NATO which has 1325 ft-lb.  Course the M-8's rounds probably fragment alot better.

1 grain seems like a fairly absurdly low estimation, and your m/s number seems to have been completely made up. It's roughly a third of a percent of 0.01c, the speed proposed in the comment I replied to. What is this equation supposed to mean, exactly?

[Jayce]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

RobotNixon wrote...

You guys fail science forever.

dude, science is one of my greatest obsession since i was in toddlerhood... 

i live and breath science, therefor i'm human... this vacuum effect should happen everyday, here on the planet earth since it's in space itself... that's like saying since airplanes fly 30, 000 ft (closer to space, space is actually 100, 000ft+)... that you shouldn't hear any of them because they're above the stratusphere, in a more vacuum area of the earth because they're above clouds, where as everything below clouds make a sound.

Oooohhh Kaaaay. I'm going to assume your very young as opposed to the alternative.....

There is no sound in space because there is no medium to carry the sound waves. Sound waves are formed via vibrations disturbing a gas. If there's no gas in space, there's no sound waves. Light by constrast, is a visible energy emission and like other forms of radiation can pass through empty space.

[JRKnight]

Christmas Ape wrote...

1 grain seems like a fairly absurdly low estimation, and your m/s number seems to have been completely made up. It's roughly a third of a percent of 0.01c, the speed proposed in the comment I replied to. What is this equation supposed to mean, exactly?

EK=mv^2  (Impact Energy = (slug mass X muzzle velocity^2)

Basic mathematics, its the formula to determine a rifles' or cartridges' final impact energy when it hits a target.  Use it to help determine final muzzle energy when shooting at extreme ranges.

1 grain is basically the size of a grain of sand, just various on density of the bullets when taking into effect the the composite materials that make them up.  7750 m/s falls into the catergory of hypervelocity, speeds between 5 km/s to 14 km/s.  That's actually the same speed micrometeorites can reach in space.

Conventional theories hold that the the heavier a round is and the greater its velocity, the higher its final impact energy will be.  But take a lighter bullet, the only way to achieve that same final impact energy is to accelerate it to much higher muzzle velocity.  All I'm doing is just pointing that out.

Modifié par JRKnight, 18 octobre 2010 - 04:48 .

[Christmas Ape]

JRKnight wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
1 grain seems like a fairly absurdly low estimation, and your m/s number seems to have been completely made up. It's roughly a third of a percent of 0.01c, the speed proposed in the comment I replied to. What is this equation supposed to mean, exactly?

EK=mv^2  (Impact Energy = (slug mass X muzzle velocity^2)
Basic mathematics, its the formula to determine a rifles' or cartridges' final impact energy when it hits a target.  Use it to help determine final muzzle energy when shooting at extreme ranges.
1 grain is basically the size of a grain of sand, just various on density of the bullets when taking into effect the the composite materials that make them up.  7750 m/s falls into the catergory hypervelocity, speeds between 5 km/s to 14 km/s.  That's actually the same speed micrometeorites can reach in space.
Conventional theories hold that the the heavier a round is and the greater its velocity, the higher its final impact energy will be.  But take a lighter bullet, the only way to achieve that same final impact energy is to accelerate it to much higher muzzle velocity.

Yes, that's all great and self-evident. But we're not discussing an arbitrary value of "hypervelocity". I suggested amputational recoil in response to the statement that Mass Effect weapons fired their projectiles at "1% of light speed". I'd like to know why you're quoting me and then proceeding to talk past me. Are you just showing off?

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 18 octobre 2010 - 06:51 .

[Fortlowe]

Well if we're questioning the physics then there is this little theory called Relativity....FTL travel makes a trip back home into a trip into the future.

[poyk]

Fortlowe wrote...

Well if we're questioning the physics then there is this little theory called Relativity....FTL travel makes a trip back home into a trip into the future.

What ever... <_<

[Atmosfear3]

The velocity discussion has peaked my interest so heres a question:



If lets say ME weapons were possible today and could fire said grain-sized bullets at targets. What kind of damage would that grain-sized bullet do on a human body? On a cinder block wall?

[Weiser_Cain]

Massive cavitation, you'd blow up as the energy transferred into your flesh. Or at least that's how high powered bullets work. I'm not a physicist and I don't know how much energy is involved or how well a grain of sand would transfer the energy? Unarmored it could pass right through you for all I know, I haven't read of anyone putting meat into a particle accelerator.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Based on my rather limited understanding of ballistics and physics there may be problems with the bullet passing right through the target without transferring most of that kinetic energy to the target. This has been a problem with certain types of 5.56mm ammo in the real world.

[rage-monk]

Foolsfolly wrote...

weedlink10 wrote...

Gleym wrote...

In other words, it's just yet another method to appeal to the FPS crowd.

oh loook another dumb quote, stop blaming FPS games for something that bioware you didn't like, which FPS game out that has bullet travel, not halo, COD, rainbow six, far cry, half life, L4D, people should learn to stop saying dumb ****.

You just gotta let some of these fly past you, dude. There's a lot of these people on the boards. Them and the anti-console people.

There's like a few anti-ME2 tribes on this site:

-Console Ruined ME2.
-FPS players Ruined ME2.
-EA Ruined ME2.

I have no idea which tribe is the largest but dealing with them always ends with them calling victory and never listening to you. Just ignore them for the most part and hope BioWare does too.

Right... I'm pretty shure bullets in CoD4 did take a little time to
arrive at the target, in BF:BC2 you eve nhave to aim above the target at
greater distances. But many shooters feature CQB primarily so it wouldn't really matter.
_____

• I'm a PC gamer all the way and I don't fully approve of cross
  platform developing. But since it does have some benefits and I'm no
  expert on the sublect I tend to keep my mouth shut.
• In the past
  I've played almost exclusively FPSs. If BioWare had truly tried to
  appeal to my tastes we'd all no longer stare at Shepards buttocks for
  most of the game and aim down the guns' visors. Last time I checked Mass Effect was still a 3rd person RPG/shooter. Plus, most shooters feature a wider veriety of guns than ME2 did on release.
• EA (like other big publishers) ruins games. I firmly believe this and I still live in fear of the day they shut down BioWare and rape their franchises like it happened with Westwood/C&C. It's commendable that they stepped down from the BS -DRM throne, but DLC
  just ends up ripping games apart and makes people wait for the Ultimate -
  or whatever a publisher wants to call it nowadays - Edition.

Fortlowe wrote...

Well if we're questioning the physics
then there is this little theory called Relativity....FTL travel makes a
trip back home into a trip into the future.

Not really. Spending 1 year in FTL (or was it at light speed itself?) would mean that you wouldn't age as much as you would have during 1 year on earth. Wait... that means your right, in a weird way.

[Weiser_Cain]

The faster you go the less time passes for you compared to slower objects, until you get to light speed, going faster than the speed of light, you (should) start showing up places before you seem to have left where you were. The effect is measurable with instruments so it's not a perceptual trick though my brain keeps trying to tell me it is. Also it's past bed time so if I messed up I have an excuse.

[Trix-Rabbit]

whether some of you want to admit it or not, ME2 turned from a RPG with fps elements, to a TPS with a story...



Also. Ever been on xbox live? Its full of dirtbags on voice chat who are 12-16 years old.



EA does not make decisions about ME2 except for publishing.



And on the third note, It wasn't FPS gamers who ruined ME2, it was all the retards on the forums who whined about gameplay instead of letting bioware make their damn super awesome game the way they wanted.



Not that its even really ruined...its still fun as hell... Just not as good as it coulda been.