72 réponses à ce sujet

[rage-monk]

^
"EA does not make decisions about ME2 except for publishing." <--- That still leaves more than enough room to destroy a game.

The key thing about FPS is that you play in first person.
"First-person shooter, a video game centered on shooting where the player's on-screen view of the game world simulates that of the character" - Wikipedia
MEs 1&2 incorporate shooter elements, yes, but since it utilises third person view I fail to see where this whole FPS-thing comes from.

[Katamariguy]

It's the rule of cool, guys.

[Fortlowe]

poyk wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

Well if we're questioning the physics then there is this little theory called Relativity....FTL travel makes a trip back home into a trip into the future.

What ever... <_<

Just saying.. I appreciate the attention BW pays to the science, but at some point concessions have to be made. It's game, suspension of disbelief is part of the charm. So if theres bullet travel and it makes the game mor compelling, even if the science doesn't back it up, who cares?

[Weiser_Cain]

I don't see how bullet travel adds anything to the feel of the game, I think it was just a mistake.

I will take this opportunity to complain again about how stripped down the rpg elements were and the sidelining of biotics in favor of guns. There.

[Fortlowe]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I don't see how bullet travel adds anything to the feel of the game, I think it was just a mistake.
I will take this opportunity to complain again about how stripped down the rpg elements were and the sidelining of biotics in favor of guns. There.

Suspense is the hallmark of drama. Anticipation and a millisecond of doubt concerning accuracy in a firefight add to the suspense. 

[Weiser_Cain]

I just point and spray? Even with those stupid thermal clips ammo is rarely an issue and I usually play a biotic anyway so I'm really just killing time till my real powers are ready... Plus don't soldiers have bullet time? What suspense?

[Saremei]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Yes, that's all great and self-evident. But we're not discussing an arbitrary value of "hypervelocity". I suggested amputational recoil in response to the statement that Mass Effect weapons fired their projectiles at "1% of light speed". I'd like to know why you're quoting me and then proceeding to talk past me. Are you just showing off?

To put it simply, the bullets are fired using mass effect field modifying them. You will not get any amputational recoil.  All acceleration would be done at super reduced mass, which would correct itself once it leaves the mass effect field.  Hyper acceleration without much kick. We aren't talking standard explosive fired projectiles reaching 1% light speed here. it's all metal shavings from a block, magnets for propulsion, and a mass effect field.

[Fro_McJoe]

^yeah that's true, I don't understand the recoil. I mean its a magnet pushing a grain of sand? What is causing recoil? Also as other people were saying, these rounds would go straight through objects in real life due to fact that since they're metal shavings they wouldn't be able to be purposely designed to flatten on impact, so not very much kinetic energy would be transferred to the target. Like why 5.56 rounds while more potent against body armor and more effective at range, have a tendency to go through objects with out transferring enough kinetic energy to cripple the target which is often a problem when it's a crazy dude with an AK on PCP......

[Fro_McJoe]

I know that the big boy naval rounds are like real life sabot rounds essentially. Big and heavy and made of tungsten that are designed to flatten to a certain extent on impact. Or I guess it's closer to armor-piercing capped ballistic cap rounds. What ever, I'm sure none of you give a d*mn about my military history rambling.....

[JRKnight]

Christmas Ape wrote...
 Yes, that's all great and self-evident. But we're not discussing an arbitrary value of "hypervelocity". I suggested amputational recoil in response to the statement that Mass Effect weapons fired their projectiles at "1% of light speed". I'd like to know why you're quoting me and then proceeding to talk past me. Are you just showing off?

Cause I stupidly misread your first post and proceeded to dig my self into an every deeper hole.  I apologize for that.  And if I really intended to show off, I'd probably post a bunch of data and information that practically no one here would even understand.  But I don't boast.

I had agreed with you.  I was just pointing out that the slug mass played a factor into that, and the fact you'd need an extremely oversized gun to even achieve those speeds.

I just still dought the energy would be enough to rip a guys' limbs off, but seriously be enough to kill him.  Even with those speeds, the recoil energy is less focused and probably more greatly spread out over a larger surface area.  It definatly turn every muscle and bone in your limbs and chest into useless dead weigh, though.

Fro_McJoe wrote...
^yeah that's true, I don't understand the recoil. I mean its a magnet pushing a grain of sand? What is causing recoil? Also as other people were saying, these rounds would go straight through objects in real life due to fact that since they're metal shavings they wouldn't be able to be purposely designed to flatten on impact, so not very much kinetic energy would be transferred to the target. Like why 5.56 rounds while more potent against body armor and more effective at range, have a tendency to go through objects with out transferring enough kinetic energy to cripple the target which is often a problem when it's a crazy dude with an AK on PCP......

Newton's second and third laws of motion.  Doesn't matter what method was used to launch a projectile, you still get an equal reaction  of force when the slug leaves the muzzle.  Even if using electromagnetics.

Basic ballistics, Mass Effect small arms probably heats each round to a semi-molten state then compreses them to specific size and shape.  Design of the round matters, in one the ME books it described usage of hollow-point rounds in one of the firefights.  Hollow-point rounds have a caved-in nose, when the bullet penerates soft tissue it mushrooms, or rapidly expands, improving kinetic energy transfer and infliction of hydrostatic shock to a target without the round traveling all the way through the body.

[Christmas Ape]

Saremei wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
Yes, that's all great and self-evident. But we're not discussing an arbitrary value of "hypervelocity". I suggested amputational recoil in response to the statement that Mass Effect weapons fired their projectiles at "1% of light speed". I'd like to know why you're quoting me and then proceeding to talk past me. Are you just showing off?

To put it simply, the bullets are fired using mass effect field modifying them. You will not get any amputational recoil.  All acceleration would be done at super reduced mass, which would correct itself once it leaves the mass effect field.  Hyper acceleration without much kick. We aren't talking standard explosive fired projectiles reaching 1% light speed here. it's all metal shavings from a block, magnets for propulsion, and a mass effect field.

"Recoil equal to impact velocity, mitigated somewhat by the mass effect field" is taken from the Codex. I am very much aware of the function of mass effect weapons.
I have at no point personally suggested the 0.01c figure. It is, in fact, mentioned in the original post. I was rejecting that point, and suggested a rather arbitrary figure for mass effect weapon velocity simply to give a point of reference for the original poster. From that point on, I have had a poster suggest relevant equations using completely irrelevant values. You are arguing my own point back to me, except where you're wrong. Reading the entirety of the thread would really have helped you out here.

EDIT: Well, not a problem then, JRKnight. I think we've all read past something in a post we replied to at some point in time. I'll admit I'm not a doctor and may have simply exaggerated the damage to make a more compelling point, but I think we agree that 0.01c is simply unfeasible as a weapon velocity.

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 20 octobre 2010 - 09:07 .

[BattleRaptor]

LOL LOL LOL

Starships using masseffect fields to propel themselves faster then the speed of light without needing more energy then the ENTIRE universe holds.

Is fine.

Starships accelerating to millions of times lightspeed and deaccelerating almost instantly.

Is fine

BUT
Gun using those same mass effect fields to accelerate a projectiel to just .1c speed.
IMPOSSIBLE.
Despite the fact in the mass effect universe thats exactly what happens.

Singularity works and doesnt cause the biotic to be pushed/propelled when activating it.

So there is NO reason masseffect fields cant be used to accelerate a projectile by using a gravity well and causing ZERO kickback.

Or use a masseffect field to make 1 gram bullet=0.000 000 000 1 gram while its accelerated by EMF.

Modifié par BattleRaptor, 20 octobre 2010 - 01:15 .

[Vena_86]

There should be no travel time. People should not survive in outer space and on hostile planets with exposed skin and a little breathing mask, drinking should not work through a solid helmet. Planets at the outer edge of the solar system should not have earth like conditions.



It is details (small and big ones) that make a game believable and create an atmosphere which allows a gamer with more than pre school education to get immersed.

It is the lack of detail that shows what publisher/developer think of their target audience...



And things like this should not happen in any genre unless it is completely abstract or fantasy. Mass Effect being a TPS does not in the least justify these oversights.



The franchise started with the first game and books with solid(not perfect) scientific grounding which made it much more believable and less "gamey". Why has this been abandoned?

[Fortlowe]

BattleRaptor wrote...

LOL LOL LOL

Starships using masseffect fields to propel themselves faster then the speed of light without needing more energy then the ENTIRE universe holds.

Is fine.

Starships accelerating to millions of times lightspeed and deaccelerating almost instantly.

Is fine

BUT
Gun using those same mass effect fields to accelerate a projectiel to just .1c speed.
IMPOSSIBLE.
Despite the fact in the mass effect universe thats exactly what happens.

Singularity works and doesnt cause the biotic to be pushed/propelled when activating it.

So there is NO reason masseffect fields cant be used to accelerate a projectile by using a gravity well and causing ZERO kickback.

Or use a masseffect field to make 1 gram bullet=0.000 000 000 1 gram while its accelerated by EMF.

^ this.

[casedawgz]

Sad thing is the bullet travel time is an illusion, and a badly implemented one at that. You can often see your enemy get hit and lose health before the tracer even reaches them. It's quite jarring.

[Atmosfear3]

Lets just all agree that BW may have designed themselves into a hole that they can't dig themselves out of without massive changes to established lore.

[Weiser_Cain]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Lets just all agree that BW may have designed themselves into a hole that they can't dig themselves out of without massive changes to established lore.

I don't think they care that much about lore. They could just delete that nonsense about everyone adopting the new tech all at once and add both types of gun back into the game with decidedly more powerful weapons using thermal clips and the rest not. It never made any sense to have a low fire rate pistols use the clips in the first place.

[Brenon Holmes]

Fro_McJoe wrote...

Now in ME1, when you pulled the trigger, your traget would instintaneously get hit, which makes sense since your excellorating a grain of sand to like 1% of light speed. Now in ME2, except with the Mantis and Widow snipers, you have bullet travel time which get pretty noticeable at long range.

<snip>

Those are tracers, the "bullet" from weapons hits instantaneously.

[Weiser_Cain]

Tracers on sniper rifles?

[Brenon Holmes]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Tracers on sniper rifles?

Yes, so you can see where you shot. 

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 20 octobre 2010 - 08:44 .

[-Severian-]

The amount of mis-informed pseudo-science in here is staggering - sound in space, really? Thank god someone corrected you. Like all good sci-fi, sometimes the authors will bend the rules in order to appeal. It's what the "fi" part stands for. Tracers are a reasonably explanation for anyone that cares, there's no reason some kind of phosphorus output would be added to projectiles to mark the trail.



Frankly, it doesn't even matter. You can tell ME2 news has been slow, these people worming their way out of their tunnels to whine.

[Fortlowe]

-Severian- wrote...

The amount of mis-informed pseudo-science in here is staggering - sound in space, really? Thank god someone corrected you. Like all good sci-fi, sometimes the authors will bend the rules in order to appeal. It's what the "fi" part stands for. Tracers are a reasonably explanation for anyone that cares, there's no reason some kind of phosphorus output would be added to projectiles to mark the trail.

Frankly, it doesn't even matter. You can tell ME2 news has been slow, these people worming their way out of their tunnels to whine.

^ and this.