14 réponses à ce sujet

[dopefourtwo]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere yet but I would really like to be able to put on headware but choose to be able to show or hide what I am wearing on my head because in Origins some of the headwares had great abilities but looked extremely ugly (ex: Libertarians Cowel). I think this should be implemented into DA2, what do you guys think?

[David Gaider]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Considering in cutscenes in DA1 the headgear disappears anyway, I don't think its that much to ask for a toggle, especially if the headgear (especially for mages) looks flat out silly again this time around.

I think the lack of a toggle for headgear in DAO was a technical issue, as opposed to any opposition from us on a design standpoint. I know when I played LotRO I always toggled my helmets off simply because I liked looking at my character more than I liked looking at a helmet.

The headgear in DA2 is much better-- ideally it'd be better enough that nobody would want a toggle (well, there'd always be somebody who did, but I'm talking most people here). Barring that we'll see if the technical hurdle is something we have the time to deal with. The reason we've mentioned nothing is that we promise nothing on this front. Even my vague mention of the possibility will be taken as an ironclad promise by some, and for that I apologize.

[David Gaider]

PanosSmirnakos wrote...
Dear David, although I know you're not a tech guy and responsible about it, I think that the main reason is because you (in Bioware) find this feature unimportant.

That's because it is unimportant, in the larger scheme of things. That doesn't mean we won't do something about it if we can, simply that we have far bigger fish to fry. Like I said earlier, if we can get the headgear to look better that's half the battle won.

I can understand this but I can't believe it caused techinal issues because there is a popular fan-made mod for it (which I personally use without facing a simple bug / glitch). The version 1.6 alone has around 30.000 downloads which proves that it was welcomed by many PC fans of the game. Link:  http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=202  

You can believe what you like. I've often said that every time a forumite says something should be simple, some poor kitten gets punted through a plate glass window-- and it's true.

Please think of the kittens.

Mods don't have to receive official support, they don't need to be tested and people are often willing to overlook glitches with how they work simply because it was their choice to download them. In other words they're held to a different standard.

Which is fine. That's mods. We can't rely on mods to do our work-- not to mention they'll only ever apply to the PC.

I already said we're aware of the desire-- but we're not making any promises at this point.

[David Gaider]

asaiasai wrote...
Personally i do not give a ****e. I am the customer and if enough of us agree on a toggle they will give us one. How do i know this? It is because of the overwhelming desire for a certain Quarian or Turian to be cast as a love interest was expressed by enough people that regardless of artistic intent it was made so. So a toggle for a hat that looks like monkey butt is not an unreasonable, OR make hats that look less like ass, the choice is your Bioware. Decide which will be easier for you to do then do that.

Wow.

If you were casting around for a way to make us uninterested in going out of our way to provide such an option, that would certainly be an excellent candidate. Gotta say.

[David Gaider]

Sharn01 wrote...
Not adding something to spite someone who made you angry would be an even bigger jerk move.

Oh, I know. I doubt we would do that of course-- but that kind of entitlement certainly makes it tempting.

Especially since, if we did implement the dreaded toggle, it would be because we thought it was worthwhile and an effort the players might appreciate, and not because someone (or many someones) decided that throwing a tantrum on the forums is what got results.

But to each their own, I guess.

Modifié par David Gaider, 19 octobre 2010 - 04:32 .

[David Gaider]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
I think the whole Tali/Garrus romance was put into ME2 more because the developers got into the idea because of the threads and the discussions involved. Not simply because it was demanded. It was talked about, great interest was involved, and the discussions more or less convinced developers that it was an idea worth considering and doing.

I suspect that's correct. If someone thinks that the romances for Tali or Garrus-- or anything else, for that matter-- are included solely because some people on the forums demanded it and not because, say, there were people on the dev team who actually liked the idea and those characters, then they're no doubt mistaken.

Folks on the forums may entice us to like something, in which case someone might champion it (if plans for it didn't already exist, which might be the case) but if there are good reasons not to do it (such as a lack of time or resources) that won't help even then... and if there's nobody who's interested in it at all, it wouldn't matter if there was a threatened revolt on the forums. We are not here to appease. We are here to engage in discussion, and that's your (plural "your") opportunity to convince us-- no more.

[David Gaider]

Stejo wrote...
Well, seeing as how you're willing to overlook your artistic integrity in order to abide to your publisher's moneymilking ideas, I'm sure you won't mind indulging your fanbase too, who kinda rightfully complains that if you're gonna make helms that look like buckets with holes, you might as well give an option to hide them too. Unless you plan to release the toggle button as DLC.

That kind of comment tells me you probably deserve to be charged for a toggle button, if you assume we're "overlooking" our artistic integrity as it is. After all, what have we got to lose? Charge away!

[David Gaider]

Meltemph wrote...
Again, though, don't mean to sound like I'm telling you what to do and I'm sure you probably know all this.

It's true. I shouldn't encourage them, but they are fun to respond to.

They're not convincing me-- or anyone, really-- of anything, if that's your concern.

[Lukas Kristjanson]

asaiasai wrote...

Everyone here myself included to a limited degree is doing Bioware a favor by being here, we provide FREE customer feed back, and while we may not encompass the entire fan base i do believe there is enough of a cross section to give you Bioware some idea as to what works and what does not.

And you would be incorrect. The playerbase represented on the forums is fantastically skewed. Opinions are still valid, but general agreement here is no more indicative of the player base as a whole than the people at a political rally wondering why their politician of choice didn't get in when "everyone they know" voted for him.

If you are not willing to at least consider the request of your customer base especially considering that the request in this case effects NOTHING in the game and is just a bit of inconvience for you than that speaks a certain level of contempt for your customer base. 

And it speaks to your unfamiliarity with how games are constructed. Nothing is so isolated that it affects nothing else, and “inconvenience” means resources, which means something else does not get done. As Dave said, this option is an additional feature that is very, very low on the list of priorities relative to other systems in development. And despite its recent re-emergence in this thread, this is not something out of the blue that we have dismissed out of hand.
Take a look at Leliana’s Song. Notice any particular kinds of equipment missing from that module? To sync with the lightness of other stylistic changes I wanted headgear to match the mood that would not mess with the visuals we were going for. I went so far as to write up a number of circlets appropriate to the theme, get icons made, and we pushed the request as far as it could go for a DLC. We investigated, and found that making it function required touching a core system that would result in having to retest everything in the main campaign and Awakening. 
Because when you futz with one thing, you don’t get to ship unless you go through the hoops, no matter how isolated you think the affected area is. Modders don't have that restriction, they don't have to worry about supporting strange installations or appeasing publishers at the cost of their livelihood. So we dropped it in LS and went for an unsophisticated dodge that was appropriate enough for a contained story.Now we are in a different scenario with DA2, but limiting factors still apply. We’ve heard the desire, and given it an appropriate level of importance in the hierarchy of things that may or may not happen. That’s your answer. The same answer. The volume of the request is no longer a factor. Businesses listen, but if your method of communicating is to shout in someone's face about how entitled you are... well, I have contempt for your argument, not the customer.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Short answer: I'd like to see this feature. I'd like it to be in and working perfectly. If there's core reasons we cannot put it in, or we could put it in, but it would break something horribly in the game, then we won't, because we have to prioritize. Cosmetic features are awesome, but rarely as important as core systems.

Same thing Dave and Luke are saying, really.

Contempt doesn't enter into it. We're making games, not elaborately packaged personal insults.

[Mike Laidlaw]

AuraofMana wrote...
However, I find it ironic that this game is still filled with some very glaring bugs and a dev is talking about not doing toggle helmets using bugs as a reason.

You assume the same people who would fix certain bugs would work on the helmets. This is rarely the case. Unless the bugs are about the helmets, of course.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

not elaborately packaged personal insults.

I'd like to work in that business for a day, see how it works.

I imagine it's mostly baking cakes in the shape of genetalia. And delivery, of course.

[Lukas Kristjanson]

tmp7704 wrote...

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Take a look at Leliana’s Song. Notice any particular kinds of equipment missing from that module? To sync with the lightness of other stylistic changes I wanted headgear to match the mood that would not mess with the visuals we were going for. I went so far as to write up a number of circlets appropriate to the theme, get icons made, and we pushed the request as far as it could go for a DLC. We investigated, and found that making it function required touching a core system that would result in having to retest everything in the main campaign and Awakening. 

On the other hand, getting such functionality put in the core game, to have category of headgear that doesn't automatically remove the hair mesh away when worn... would be glorious. For the ability to get these aforementioned circlets, but also earrings, glasses and other such nifty small head equipment.

Any chance this gets ever added, either for DAO or DA2, at least?

I would like to see it, but like I said, it's a matter of priority. I'm a writer, I couldn't give you an answer about the specific difficulty of it. I know that for LS, we found that, yes indeed, it was minor to have the game not render the helm. Unfortunately, it was not minor to tell the game to not automatically remove the scalp when something is entered in the helm slot. Creepy, and likely the reason for the modder dodge of using a different slot. The first is modifying a result of the process, the second was buried a little deeper. And there's no small changes across mutiple platforms with multiple publishing requirements.

I'm sure our necrocoders could deal with it, but for LS it was scope that was the limiting factor, not the overall difficulty. For DA2 there may be other factors. Limited number of chickens and a limited amount of time to sacrifice them, maybe. I dunno. They do magic.

[Stanley Woo]

Just a reminder that bickering is not permitted in our community. we can disagree with each other without resorting to insults or name-calling. Thank you.

[Mike Laidlaw]

asaiasai wrote...

All of this could have been swept away, if even if I was a bit out of line by my "entitlement attitude" for a hemlet fix/toggle, by the developers saying we will see and giving it the good ole "college try".

Asai

We will see, and we are giving it the good old college try. Honestly.

We never said that we weren't, only that not every feature can make it into the game. In fact, I'm pretty sure I posted exactly what you were looking for a few pages back.