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Option to show/hide headware please!!


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#201
PSUHammer

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asaiasai wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

ydaraishy wrote...

If you don't want the awesome stats a dead peacock gives you, then breaking immersion and making your dead peacock be invisible but getting the stats still is a better option? Huh?


This is where everyone argues about what is a rp game and what breaks immersion.

These arguments in DAO boiled down to people complaining that players wanted something for nothing. That isn't the case. They don't want free helms with awesome stats handed out for doing nothing to earn them. What they want is the option to see their characters faces, and yes, sometimes the options to hide very fugly hats. Were the itemization power of hats really based upon ugly being part of the trade off?

I can't see Bioware thinking to themselves, this hat is really powerful, I think to balance it out, it should be ugly so that a)people won't use it or B) those that do use it will have to pay for its power by looking at a bird on their head for 30 hours.

I'd rather be able to hide helms, but the lack of the option won't affect my like of the game at all. Gaider gets in a tizzy anytime a toggle is mentioned. I don't blame him, we'd have a toggle list so long, they'd have to have a full time team just designing toggled versions of every part of the game.


Personally i do not give a ****e. I am the customer and if enough of us agree on a toggle they will give us one. How do i know this? It is because of the overwhelming desire for a certain Quarian or Turian to be cast as a love interest was expressed by enough people that regardless of artistic intent it was made so. So a toggle for a hat that looks like monkey butt is not an unreasonable, OR make hats that look less like ass, the choice is your Bioware. Decide which will be easier for you to do then do that.

Asai


This post is hilarious, in an elitist, entitled sort of way.  Wow...

I love it when gamers DEMAND things!

#202
saruman31

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/signed


This post is hilarious, in an elitist, entitled sort of way.  Wow...

I love it when gamers DEMAND things!


Learn marketing.

Modifié par saruman31, 19 octobre 2010 - 11:50 .


#203
Creature 1

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ErichHartmann wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...
Not adding something to spite someone who made you angry would be an even bigger jerk move.


Oh, I know. I doubt we would do that of course-- but that kind of entitlement certainly makes it tempting.

Especially since, if we did implement the dreaded toggle, it would be because we thought it was worthwhile and an effort the players might appreciate, and not because someone (or many someones) decided that throwing a tantrum on the forums is what got results.

But to each their own, I guess. :)


Don't forget to pass along a toggle for underwear.   

:lol:  This.  Or at least make it super-easy to mod out underwear in key scenes, if you guys insist on characters keeping their clothes *on* in those intimate moments.  ^_^

#204
Behindyounow

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I want an option to keep them on during conversations. I found it ridiculous that my character would rather show off his face than stay safe in a battlefield.



I'm fine with them being removed for cutscenes where my character eats, drinks or kisses or something. It makes sense for that. The rest of it should be my choice.

#205
David Gaider

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DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
I think the whole Tali/Garrus romance was put into ME2 more because the developers got into the idea because of the threads and the discussions involved. Not simply because it was demanded. It was talked about, great interest was involved, and the discussions more or less convinced developers that it was an idea worth considering and doing.


I suspect that's correct. If someone thinks that the romances for Tali or Garrus-- or anything else, for that matter-- are included solely because some people on the forums demanded it and not because, say, there were people on the dev team who actually liked the idea and those characters, then they're no doubt mistaken.

Folks on the forums may entice us to like something, in which case someone might champion it (if plans for it didn't already exist, which might be the case) but if there are good reasons not to do it (such as a lack of time or resources) that won't help even then... and if there's nobody who's interested in it at all, it wouldn't matter if there was a threatened revolt on the forums. We are not here to appease. We are here to engage in discussion, and that's your (plural "your") opportunity to convince us-- no more.

#206
Feio

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To be honest, it's always seemed weirder when my characters wear helmets in cut-scenes then when they don't (except where it's obviously necessary, such as the scenes in space/vacuum in Mass Effect). I mean, if I'm riding a motorbike, I wear a helmet for protection. That's fine and fair enough. But if I get off my motorbike and walk into a shop to talk to someone, I take the helmet off - it's a basic social nicety (well that, and people tend to think you're robbing the place if you keep it on). I mean, have you ever tried talking to someone with a full helmet on? You're not getting any of the social queues you normally do (meeting the eyes, reading of facial expression), and it makes conversation somewhat awkward. If the cutscenes show the person without the helmet, I just figure they took it off to have a conversation, and put it back on again afterwards.

It sure helps you know who's doing what in a cutscene as well. I remember the first time I got the early lighting-the-fire cutscene in Dragon Age, and when it cut to my characters after scenes of the army I didn't realise it was my characters (and not just random army men), as their faces were covered by their helmets. But if they don't have the option to hide helmets, I'll just shrug and keep playing.

#207
Stejo

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Well, seeing as how you're willing to overlook your artistic integrity in order to abide to your publisher's moneymilking ideas, I'm sure you won't mind indulging your fanbase too, who kinda rightfully complains that if you're gonna make helms that look like buckets with holes, you might as well give an option to hide them too. Unless you plan to release the toggle button as DLC.

#208
David Gaider

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Stejo wrote...
Well, seeing as how you're willing to overlook your artistic integrity in order to abide to your publisher's moneymilking ideas, I'm sure you won't mind indulging your fanbase too, who kinda rightfully complains that if you're gonna make helms that look like buckets with holes, you might as well give an option to hide them too. Unless you plan to release the toggle button as DLC.


That kind of comment tells me you probably deserve to be charged for a toggle button, if you assume we're "overlooking" our artistic integrity as it is. After all, what have we got to lose? Charge away! Posted Image

#209
Addai

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PanosSmirnakos wrote...

Dear David, although I know you're not a tech guy and responsible about it, I think that the main reason is because you (in Bioware) find this feature unimportant. I can understand this but I can't believe it caused techinal issues because there is a popular fan-made mod for it (which I personally use without facing a simple bug / glitch). The version 1.6 alone has around 30.000 downloads which proves that it was welcomed by many PC fans of the game. Link:  http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=202  

So, please try to make it happen for DA 2 or give us a toolset to fix it ourselves. Little details and extra features like this, add a lot to the overall gameplay.

I do find glitches, but only in combination with other mods.  And as DG pointed out, I live with those because I can fix it.  So what I would underline in your post is, a toolset will make so many things better.  Kittens will live in harmony with plate glass windows.

There's a notion in city planning that people like to be able to arrange things to suit themselves.  Bryant Park in New York City was designed with this in mind, with chairs rather than benches, because even being able to move your chair one inch made people feel better than a stationary bench.  But listening to the dev team, that inch can move a lot of crap, and I imagine all of those "little changes" then have to go through the bureacracy of people who are doing this as a job and have to sign in triplicate and send a thousand emails before something can happen.

As long as PC players have the option of moving the chair ourselves, I'll be satisfied.

#210
Maria Caliban

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I used to think that David Gaider was a true artist, but now that I know he's willing to throw away headgear toggles simply so EA publishers can milk the poor customers dry, I understand he's become a power mad tyrant, thirsting for the souls of we wretched and damned players.

#211
Ulous

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Stejo wrote...

Well, seeing as how you're willing to overlook your artistic integrity in order to abide to your publisher's moneymilking ideas, I'm sure you won't mind indulging your fanbase too, who kinda rightfully complains that if you're gonna make helms that look like buckets with holes, you might as well give an option to hide them too. Unless you plan to release the toggle button as DLC.



LOL, this is a WIN post to be fair. :D

#212
Meltemph

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That kind of comment tells me you probably deserve to be charged for a toggle button, if you assume we're "overlooking" our artistic integrity as it is. After all, what have we got to lose? Charge away!






I dunno why you respond to people like Stejo. I mean, you will always get the irrational, over-emotional, or just the ones trying to sound like a "badass to the man", types.



With people who throw temper-tantrums like this, making fun of them or ignoring them, I've found is the best approach, imo. Don't mean to sound "preachy", but responding to them will probably just make you more annoyed if you take them seriously or treat the post as worth responding to.



I mean, the things they say in their posts...well, are not the most rational. Also, they are only a minority, they just like to be the loudest, so they get the attention(which they seem to sometimes get).



Again, though, don't mean to sound like I'm telling you what to do and I'm sure you probably know all this.

#213
errant_knight

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David Gaider wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
I think the whole Tali/Garrus romance was put into ME2 more because the developers got into the idea because of the threads and the discussions involved. Not simply because it was demanded. It was talked about, great interest was involved, and the discussions more or less convinced developers that it was an idea worth considering and doing.


I suspect that's correct. If someone thinks that the romances for Tali or Garrus-- or anything else, for that matter-- are included solely because some people on the forums demanded it and not because, say, there were people on the dev team who actually liked the idea and those characters, then they're no doubt mistaken.

Folks on the forums may entice us to like something, in which case someone might champion it (if plans for it didn't already exist, which might be the case) but if there are good reasons not to do it (such as a lack of time or resources) that won't help even then... and if there's nobody who's interested in it at all, it wouldn't matter if there was a threatened revolt on the forums. We are not here to appease. We are here to engage in discussion, and that's your (plural "your") opportunity to convince us-- no more.

So...stamping one's feet, and holding one's breath until one turns blue and keels over, works about as well as it did when one was five. Good to know. ;)

#214
ErichHartmann

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Maria Caliban wrote...

I used to think that David Gaider was a true artist, but now that I know he's willing to throw away headgear toggles simply so EA publishers can milk the poor customers dry, I understand he's become a power mad tyrant, thirsting for the souls of we wretched and damned players.


Didn't know it was a writer's job to implement headgear toggles. :)   

#215
Maria Caliban

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Mark my words people! The week after Dragon Age 2 comes out, BioWare will offer a $15 headgear toggle DLC, and no, you will not get a swift flying mount with it.

#216
The Hardest Thing In The World

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ErichHartmann wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I used to think that David Gaider was a true artist, but now that I know he's willing to throw away headgear toggles simply so EA publishers can milk the poor customers dry, I understand he's become a power mad tyrant, thirsting for the souls of we wretched and damned players.


Didn't know it was a writer's job to implement headgear toggles. :)   


He's influential enough, I think.

But a toggle for headgears aren't as important as a toggle for friendly fire.

#217
Saibh

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You know, I'm all in favor of a toggle for this, but, damn, some of you people take it to the next level. You'd think this toggle is all that stands between us and Armageddon. If I really want to see my character's head, I won't wear a helmet. I'd simply prefer the bonuses in battle anyway. It's sort of a selfish request, don't you think? It's not like we have any word on whether the helmet's are cemented on, like DLC armor in ME2.

#218
Enshaid

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Meh, I can live without a toggle. I'll just do what I normally do and play on a lower difficulty level so I can put my characters in whatever I think looks good and still rape the opposition.

#219
David Gaider

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Meltemph wrote...
Again, though, don't mean to sound like I'm telling you what to do and I'm sure you probably know all this.


It's true. I shouldn't encourage them, but they are fun to respond to.

They're not convincing me-- or anyone, really-- of anything, if that's your concern.

#220
Meltemph

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They're not convincing me-- or anyone, really-- of anything, if that's your concern.

Not at all actually, I understand the reality of it... Just they get fed, then they don't go away.  <_<

#221
Maverick827

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Saibh wrote...

You know, I'm all in favor of a toggle for this, but, damn, some of you people take it to the next level. You'd think this toggle is all that stands between us and Armageddon. If I really want to see my character's head, I won't wear a helmet. I'd simply prefer the bonuses in battle anyway. It's sort of a selfish request, don't you think? It's not like we have any word on whether the helmet's are cemented on, like DLC armor in ME2.

I really don't think any request is selfish; we are consumers and our opinions our important, or at least they should be.  

I think the distinction to be made is the one between reasonable and unreasonable requests, and then even further between irrationally unreasonable and rationally unreasonable requests.

Just the other day, for instance, someone was asking BioWare to translate all of the voiced dialog into Portuguese.  Although this is an unreasonable request, as recording all of the dialog in English is a monumental task in and of itself, it was requested rationally and from an unmalicious place.  Asking BioWare to add Dwarves and Elves as playable races in a veiled accusation of "selling out," as I think many of us have seen here before, is both an unreasonable request as well as one that is made irrationally.

I believe this request is both reasonable as well as rational.  It is reasonable because the desired effect has been achieved through a simple* mod, and the concept has been presented rationally in this thread at least once, despite the fanatics on both sides.

* The No Helmet Hack is a comparatively simple mod to, say, The Winter Forge.  When I say "simple," I mean the following:

1. The scope of the mod is small.  It does one task.
2. The code required is small, mostly because it uses somewhat of a hack, placing the item in a slot already coded by BioWare to be hidden automatically.
3. The propensity for error is small.  This is due mostly to #1.

Warning: Useless Digression Ahead

To address the topic of the necessity to "test" content, the leading defense used against player suggestions, there are three types of fundamental programming errors: syntax, runtime, and logic.  Syntax errors are errors of grammar, and are marked as incorrect in most editors (squiggly lines beneath them like in MS Word) and, even if not, a detailed error message is displayed when the program is compiled.  These are the easiest errors to fix; trivial, if tedious.

Runtime errors occur during runtime, that is when the program itself is running.  For instance, if the program accepts integers from the user and divides the two, and the user inputs a 0 for the denominator (and the programmer has not taken this into account), then that would be a runtime error.  To generalize, runtime errors are errors within the circumstance of the program/machine which were, at the time of coding, outside of the programmer's intuition/foresight.  These are more difficult to spot, but through trial and error they can be weeded out (e.g., "when I try to open this specific door, the game crashes").

The most difficult to spot and to fix, however, are logic errors.  These are subtle errors within the program's algorithm; there is nothing visually wrong with the code, and no error message will be displayed.  Still, the program does not work correctly.  You input "two times two" and you get "South Dakota" spit back at you, and you have no idea why.  Some function (maybe even one line of code within that function) was written incorrectly, and whatever it is outputting is being sent to another function, which sends its now-incorrect output to another function, and so on and so forth.  

Tricky though these may be to fix, by definition they are less of a hassle (even less of a possibility) the smaller a program gets: if you only have three lines of code to deal with, chances are you can track down where the error is if it even exists.  Hence, because the No Helmet Hack is so small, there is not much of a chance that it would be a hassle to debug if necessary, and thus the overhead of testing is lessened for such a feature as opposed to others.  And yes, this argument works in direct contrast to my wish for NG+, which would be significantly more difficult to create, test, and debug (though not so much to be not worth it!).

Modifié par Maverick827, 19 octobre 2010 - 05:47 .


#222
Dudalizer

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All I care about is the DLC armor coming with mandatory helmets that you cannot remove, even in cut scenes. That totally sucked in ME2.

#223
Sylvius the Mad

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David Gaider wrote...

That kind of comment tells me you probably deserve to be charged for a toggle button, if you assume we're "overlooking" our artistic integrity as it is. After all, what have we got to lose? Charge away! Posted Image

That's an excellent idea.  I'd pay extra to remove the dialogue wheel.

#224
In Exile

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Addai67 wrote....  But listening to the dev team, that inch can move a lot of crap, and I imagine all of those "little changes" then have to go through the bureacracy of people who are doing this as a job and have to sign in triplicate and send a thousand emails before something can happen.

As long as PC players have the option of moving the chair ourselves, I'll be satisfied.


Actually, the problem with a toggle is that it the options it sets off. One toggle is not so bad - you can easily playtest that. But two toggles, that means 4 variants for each option, above and beyond each option already hard-coded intot the game (i.e. all dialogue choices and their outcomes). As you add more toggles you have non-linear incraeases in the amount of content that needs to get tested.

Say you want to implement 3 toggles people asked for: sex scene, swearing and helmet. You have to playtest and exhaust all options to ensure there are no bugs. That's assuming that these toggles don't actually interfere with other parts of the code by being on or off. That might be yet another layer of testing that needs to be done. It can quickly become incredibly expensive.

#225
aaniadyen

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saruman31 wrote...

/signed


This post is hilarious, in an elitist, entitled sort of way.  Wow...

I love it when gamers DEMAND things!


Learn marketing.


Reality check: If you're reading this, chances are you're gonna buy the game before you even know if there's a toggle for helms. Even if you knew it wouldn't be in; you'd still buy the game anyway. Bioware knows this.

Modifié par aaniadyen, 19 octobre 2010 - 06:27 .