112 réponses à ce sujet

[Leetabix]

I Think the OP makes a good point , the game is much harder without a mage since they have both the best cc and the only class that can heal. and both the mage npc's can leave via conversation opions.

[PhantoMSouljaX]

Kukuritty wrote...

Not sure what castle you're in, but you should get Whynne if you want a premade healer.  She's in the mage tower.

Maybe your heals are weak b/c of your magic stat?  It determines how powerful your spells are.  Also, just having the lvl 1 heal does not make you a dedicated healer.  You should also spec for "spirit healer" and try to get all the row 1 creation spells.

I am in Redcliff. When you say you should spec this or that - do you mean reload and replay the entire game up to this point? Like I said I put the game on easy already, what is so difficult in making an easy setting? I don't get it. This game's designers really dropped the ball on it. Pointlessly difficult.

The truth is your just a noob who is not familiar with CRPG's,if you would get off the forum and actually L2P instead of blaming the developers or the difficulty and anything else you can point a finger at,many of us go through these type of games like a breeze and enjoy it for everything it is NOT everything it is not.

[bobtheworm]

Someone is doing something wrong here. I am playing on Normal and I made it through redcliffe, and than to the mage tower without a healer. I am also a str base warrior. I think part of your problem is that you are not using good enough armor and your con isn't high enough on your tanks. BDA is awesome.. use it. Learn to use pulling tactics. Think like you are an MMO, you wouldn't run into a crowd of even level mobs in an MMO. You would pull them one at a time. I had to do this at the entrance to Redcliffe because the Revenant destroyed me several times in a roll.



How did someone get 5 warriors and a War dog in a roll? I have 2 Warriors, Templar, Bard, Assassin, Shapeshifter, and Mage. Thats 3 Warriors, 2 rogues, and 1 mages. I have finished Redcliffe, and The Tower. Where are you getting all of your Warriors.

[Auraad]

Yes, it's true and has been said by Bioware ... it's *possible* to make so many unlucky decisions in this game that it's even not possible to finish the game in easy mode.

And it makes sense - in this respect DA:O is quite realistic - if a hero amasses a great amount of "wrong" (unlucky) decisions, he'll ultimately fail ... start over making smarter decisions.

[Zinras]

I'm not usually a person to say such things... But you just suck at the game :/



Are you flanking? Backstabbing with rogues? Using stealth? Using various stun or knockdown moves with characters? The game can certainly be tough once in a while but once you get a hang of it, you won't even use healing in most fights. If you chose to discard all things magical, then you need to micro your guys to make sure they are flanking and such, as well as you need to time when to use shield bash, shield pummel and whatever crowd control elements you have. You simply can't expect the game to do everything for you.

[Camthalon]

Yes, you were consistent in your character's choices. You pushed Morrigan away, a rogue magic user, and murdered the "legal" magic users. Out of fear? Ignorance? Intolerance?



You are having a difficult time in character because of your in character choices.



Are mages powerful? Absolutely. However... You chose to push them away. Yes, there could have been a third magic using NPC. Would your character have treated them much differently?

[soteria]

Auraad wrote...

Yes, it's true and has been said by Bioware ... it's *possible* to make so many unlucky decisions in this game that it's even not possible to finish the game in easy mode.
And it makes sense - in this respect DA:O is quite realistic - if a hero amasses a great amount of "wrong" (unlucky) decisions, he'll ultimately fail ... start over making smarter decisions.

I wouldn't even call that bad luck.  Just bad choices. 

It cheapens the significance of the decisions you make if they hold your hand and make sure you don't mess up.

[KaaZe]

I have to agree to some point about the importance of magic users in this game. It is certainly a lot easier to play with one or more. The encounters that really "kill" a none mage party is the ones were your swarmed by a gzillion monsters. If you got a decent caster, it's just a matter of tank and spank. But if you don't, it's a micromanagement nightmare with pots, stuns and what not. That doesn't mean that isn't fun, for some.



Also, i'd like to point out that there is a HUGE difference between playing this game on the PC and playing it on consoles. Hard on the Xbox isn't as hard as normal on the PC. Having played both versions rather extendedly, it really is a breeze on the consoles.

[Raedris]

Camthalon wrote...

Yes, you were consistent in your character's choices. You pushed Morrigan away, a rogue magic user, and murdered the "legal" magic users. Out of fear? Ignorance? Intolerance?

You are having a difficult time in character because of your in character choices.

Are mages powerful? Absolutely. However... You chose to push them away. Yes, there could have been a third magic using NPC. Would your character have treated them much differently?

Good point - if your character doesn't like mages (perish the thought, personally) then would you have tolerated another one if you'd found them?

As others have said, there's a lot of tactics you can take advantage of to get round the lack of healing - perhaps take a bit more time to think it through? I'm pretty crap at the tactics side of things really, it's taken 4-5 re-loads to get through some areas (the revenant in the courtyard at Redcliffe slaughtered everyone a LOT before I finally killed the b********!)

[voad]

I agree that there are some big problems with this game. I am very disappointed and underwhelmed by it. If nothing is done soon, this will be the last BioWare game I purchase. I just wish I could get my money back.

[Vohx]

I agree that the game is harder without a healer, (to be honest, I'm surprised you can't lean towards a cleric type class as a warrior (Idea for a mod perchance?) ) however, a warrior-heavy party has its advantages, for one, you have an ass-load of stuns, and the ability to force packs to gravitate towards a particular character (Taunt, threaten)



My PC is a tank, I usually roll with Shale (Stone form = win) Alastair, and the mongrel.



Having a "Balls to the wall" approach to combat in DA seems to end up with the game thrashing you a lot of the time, which to tell you the truth, I'm happy with, just make sure you're taking utility talents as well as damage skills, also pick up herbalism and trap making, the leg-hold trap is fantastic, similarly, the survival skill has served me well.

[gethsemani87]

As others have said before me, this game requires you to consider how you approach combat. Sure, Wynne allows you to run into most encounters and wing a tactic on the fly because of how effectively she keeps the party alive. But it is not impossible without her. Potions are one option, the other is to set up tactics to distribute damage within your party or even force the enemy to fight on your terms. Traps, stealthed characters and lures are great ways to decimate the enemy without taking too much damage yourself.



Are mages imbalanced? Possibly. The game is a lot easier with Wynne on your team at any rate. But they are not necessary for you to succeed as long as you pay attention to what you are doing and make sure to evaluate what you need with each level up and not what you want. It is easy to get distracted by the shinies at the end of the skill trees ("Ooooh Destroyer, shiny!") but they might not always be the best option for your party composition.

[Vagranci]

Sanguinius_nz wrote...

Think outside the box.

Use rogues to scout an area out and set traps.

Equip your party with bows/crossbows and cause damage from a distance before the enemy closes in then swtich to melee to finish things up.

Use rogues to stealth ahead and kill key threats such as mages or alphas before your warriors get there then use stealth to hide until your big boys get there.

Have a herbalist make potions, on a side note potions do not share cool downs, eg a lesser health potion and a greater health potion are not on a shared cooldown. No idea if this is intentional or not.

Make use of salves when up against particular dmg types.

Dual wield characters can do a fair amount of AoE damage with dual strike and wirlwind. Have one or two toons like this in your party to help with swarms of low grade monsters.

Remember if everyone is a rogue or a warrior then they can all easily handly a monster or two solo there is no need to have everyone focused on one target, turn off threaten and distribute the incoming dmg.

If you are up against a lot of ranged use line of sight hide behind a corner and force them to come to you.

I know the battle would go well if you set up those kind of strategies. But you have to spend extra time for EACH battle? No no.. I prefer a damage dealer as my main and alistair settles for the tanking, the rest will be the imba mages. Afterwards, you just leave it to the AI / tactics you've set

[ubi_]

My archer specced rogue has made lots of bad (evil) choices due to her character. She's killed Wynne and several other NPC you encounter. While I do have Morrigan in her party due to a lack of other viable choices, it was only very recently that I had Morrigan pick up a heal spell to help out (about 60% into the game).

There were only two fights so far that were absolutely impossible to win, one beeing Redcliffe (killing all NPC that could have helped with the defense was stupid, but that's my rogue ) and one encounter in the Brecillian Forest with the grave stone. All other fights were won with lots of pauses and the employment of tactics. If you time your stuns right, pull single enemies if possible and work out a strategy how to deal with different kinds of enemies - you'll pull through without the need of healer.



It's more difficult indeed (it got quite a bit easier and cheaper on my rogue's purse after I had Morrigan learn a basic heal spell). But that's the price for making bad choices

[Forr4078]

I ended up kiling Wynne and I don't feel like wasting Morrigan on healing instead of doing good damage. If that means having no healer, so be it.



I guess I'll start using bombs, traps and making a LOT of potions... The Circle Tower was the first place I visited after getting out of Lothering, so I can expect to play almost the entire game without a healer.

[Mad Method]

PhantoMSouljaX, gtfo. You're not welcome here. Also, failure to L2P is Bioware's fault for having such a terrible tutorial that doesn't even teach the basics of combat. There are several other failings along those lines as well, such as the completely vague tooltips we get on all our items and talents. It's also Bioware's fault when Easy mode manages to prove frustratingly difficult.

Speaking of which, Kukuritty, the 1.01 patch is meant to fix the difficulty. It makes easy mode and Redcliff easier and normal mode slightly easier.

Modifié par Mad Method, 12 novembre 2009 - 12:01 .

[Cydz]

i don't see why every one is going on that morrigan is evil. she is not evil she is just focused on power and gain. I got both morrigan and liliana on 100 on the meter. and they are with me all the time.

and redcliff is fine, i did it prepatch after lothering so i was low lvl no gear or healer.

Modifié par Cydz, 12 novembre 2009 - 12:07 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

NetBeansAndJava wrote...
[...]

Redcliff is a nasty, nasty place, regardless of when you go... but if you go early... well, it's just a nightmare.  Personally, I think Redcliff should be toned down a notch or two.

[...]

Touch Redcliffe and I'll cut you, ya hear!? CUT YOU!  

Mad Method wrote...

PhantoMSouljaX, gtfo. You're not
welcome here. Also, failure to L2P is Bioware's fault for having such a
terrible tutorial that doesn't even teach the basics of combat. There
are several other failings along those lines as well, such as the
completely vague tooltips we get on all our items and talents. It's
also Bioware's fault when Easy mode manages to prove frustratingly
difficult.

Speaking of which, Kukuritty, the 1.01 patch is meant to fix the difficulty. It makes easy mode and Redcliff easier and normal mode slightly easier.

Stop. Sucking. Balls. The tutorial is fine and step-by-step explain the basics of combat for you. Easy is supposed to be easy, not a gamemode where you fart in the general direction of Archdemons to have them keel over from the draft.

Tooltips on items could be slightly better, explaining exactly what stat does what and how they effect everything in a more technical manner; For example, just how much Spellpower does Arcane Mastery add? (Btw: It's 5). Things like that. But these things are hardly things that end up screwing you over and rape you with a rake. Pet peeves, perhaps. But it has nothing to do with you sucking terribly.

That being said, in regards to the OP and the issue of mages; Yes. Mages are wildly overpowered compared to other classes and other classes are wildly underpowered (Ranged rogue, anyone?). This game is far from perfect. For your first playthrough, getting some kind of dedicated Healer/CC:er is highly recommended. I suppose it should say so somewhere on the package for the gamingly inept.

It's right up there with warning labels on stereos such as "Not to be used as a potatoe catapult".

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 12 novembre 2009 - 12:13 .

[Tripedius]

Kukuritty wrote...

This game's difficutly setting is messed up. I have enormous problems even in Redcliff due to not having healers -

WTF! I put the game on easy - as if there was no playtesting at all - this is not easy, frustrating and annoying - I am selling my copy on ebay.

I played BG seriers, and ID not all the way through but for many-many days - I never had problems like these - with enemies swarming like crazy and no options how to defeat them

Normal mode, no patch, no healers, beat Redcliff easy. Did have a mage though, which seems pivotal for succeding (AoE doing multiple kills). However a healer is not necessary. I would however recommend alchemy for making your own health pouches.

[andymcnish]

No-one is saying you need healers.

What people are saying is that it's tough without a mage.



Mages have such great crowd control that they really give you a huge advantage - I mean look at Morrigan as early as say level 7 or 8 - winter's grasp, horror, disorient, sleep, force field....it isn't a surprise that you can make do with a few healing pots with that amount of cc...



On the other hand - I may well try a run thru next time with no mages at all -just to see how hard it really is

[boardnfool86]

Couple of things, I suck at video games and can play normal with any combination of characters until the end of the game, need wynne otherwise i have to set it on easy. 2, i thought the same thing as the original poster until i found out they have gating encounters because certain areas are MUCH harder than others. Pretty much don't go to Ozzammar first, level 10 is about the lowest encounter you'll see even if you are a lvl 6. Yeah anyways, game is not that hard unless you are on hard in which case bosses are impossible without lots of healing.

[CastorKrieg]

I agree with everything that's been written, but I have to ask you - did you honestly expect Bioware RPG to play differently? If you notice BG, BG2, NWN, and NWN2 in each of them there is a clear favor towards mage characters - they start slow, they become godly mid-game and later.



What's the worst enemy in all Bioware games? Enemy mage.



As for making pots - crafting in DA:O is broken, the costs are crazy (Lyrium is 3s, but Distill Agent is 18s, wtf) + it's impossible to find all the ingredients in one place (ffs, Lyrium is only sold in Mage Tower).

[SJR200]

I feel for the OP because I agree that handling combat is a bit easier with a mage... but what's even more impressive is that it seems your choices in game really DO affect your outcome even to the point of hosing yourself. Now that is f'n impressive Bioware. Kudos.

[Skemte]

Vincent-RED wrote...

That's why herbalism option is available and you make numerous potions. Sub skills are very helpful. Also making a tank with a full melee group is smart to attract most of the damage to him. when battling mixed class enemies always go for the mages they go down fast. I was able to beat the game on normal all the way through without using mages. I had a tank designed character(Allistar), heavy hitting character good knowcks downs in 2h spec(Sten) 2h maces or 2h axes), Rogue Liliana that speced assassination for good quick blows with use of poisons. My main character was duel wield (2 1h axes) speced berserker/reaver he carried the aoe damage with whirlwind and dual weapon sweep. Its possible to play the game any manner that you may like, just use everything that is available before you give up.

 Yeah I would like you see you do that with a large pack of wolves in nightmare.. Or a High Dragon..  You will never be able to beat them with out a healer there.

[Skemte]

CastorKrieg wrote...

I agree with everything that's been written, but I have to ask you - did you honestly expect Bioware RPG to play differently? If you notice BG, BG2, NWN, and NWN2 in each of them there is a clear favor towards mage characters - they start slow, they become godly mid-game and later.

What's the worst enemy in all Bioware games? Enemy mage.

As for making pots - crafting in DA:O is broken, the costs are crazy (Lyrium is 3s, but Distill Agent is 18s, wtf) + it's impossible to find all the ingredients in one place (ffs, Lyrium is only sold in Mage Tower).

  This isn't exactly true what so ever.. You could do well with any class.. REAL well infact..  Having a mage in NWN was not neccesary.. Only for large battles like dragons was it needed but that was a whole group event imo where you had to have every class.. IN this game you can beat it with 4 mages by having 1 or 2 arcane warriros which are insanely overpowered.