112 réponses à ce sujet

[Teshronesh]

Just one question. Did anybody try to play Baldur's Gate 2 without a Mage/Druid/Cleric and perhaps a Paladin? If you did so, would you say it was easy? Guys think at least a little out of character - they didn't create 3 basic classes (Warrior/rogue/mage) without any reason. If you want to use only rogues or only warriors it is purely logical that you don't have the abilities of t he other classes. Only because you are able to do everything with most of the classes in a well known mmo it doesn't mean you are able here, too.



Hell, Morrigans old Mother (well ok she has a special background...) rescued you alone from being killed by a WHOLE ARMY. If you don't want to use anyone who might be that strong - well, your fault. Same goes for the anvil - moral choice or logical choice? One is "easier" than the other.

[MBirkhofer]

bobtheworm wrote...

Someone is doing something wrong here. I am playing on Normal and I made it through redcliffe, and than to the mage tower without a healer. I am also a str base warrior. I think part of your problem is that you are not using good enough armor and your con isn't high enough on your tanks. BDA is awesome.. use it. Learn to use pulling tactics. Think like you are an MMO, you wouldn't run into a crowd of even level mobs in an MMO. You would pull them one at a time. I had to do this at the entrance to Redcliffe because the Revenant destroyed me several times in a roll.

How did someone get 5 warriors and a War dog in a roll? I have 2 Warriors, Templar, Bard, Assassin, Shapeshifter, and Mage. Thats 3 Warriors, 2 rogues, and 1 mages. I have finished Redcliffe, and The Tower. Where are you getting all of your Warriors.

Warriors:
Alistar, dog, shale, sten, ogden
Rogues:
Zevren, Leliana.
Mages:
Morrigan, wynne.

It is a bit odd in hindsight, that with the game being so mage centric for gameplay, and healing specifically, that its 5 warriors, 2 rogues, 2 mages.

In terms of gameplay, that you can easily kill one, and ****** off the other, and thus lose both mages is very interesting. And I would submit, make the game unbeatable, on harder difficulties.
On normal, I suspect I could beat the game without a mage healing, though it would be much much harder, and way more expensive...  I would have had to leave some things, come back and do them later.  the magi tower rev at level 8 without wynne would have been impossible.  However at level 16 I can kill them, and even the high dragon died without needing a heal.  I just used potions.

[Dalereth]

I think one of the more important points raised in this thread is that there isn't enough character NPC variety. I don't see this so much as an issue of whether or not you can win with or without certain character types (give it time and someone will find a way to win with a party of four rogues all dual wielding asparagus), but of having enough options. Having Wynne as the only default healer is, in my opinion, a major shortcoming. Wynne doesn't interest me as a character, so I don't want to use her, but needing to then spec Morrigan to heal feels like it cheapens Morrigan's character a bit. It doesn't suit her, and it means that I can't really take advantage of her shapeshifting skills.



Where the previous Baldur's Gate games succeeded and this one doesn't is offering enough character variety so that any player could put together a party of characters that appealed to him or her without sacrificing combat effectiveness or forcing a character into a role that doesn't necessarily suit them.



That said it's not that big of a problem. The options available (Wynne, speccing Morrigan, a PC healer or going without) aren't so bad that they speak any less of the game overall. It's simply just the one thing that I miss from past Bioware titles.

[Skemte]

Teshronesh wrote...

Just one question. Did anybody try to play Baldur's Gate 2 without a Mage/Druid/Cleric and perhaps a Paladin? If you did so, would you say it was easy? Guys think at least a little out of character - they didn't create 3 basic classes (Warrior/rogue/mage) without any reason. If you want to use only rogues or only warriors it is purely logical that you don't have the abilities of t he other classes. Only because you are able to do everything with most of the classes in a well known mmo it doesn't mean you are able here, too.

Hell, Morrigans old Mother (well ok she has a special background...) rescued you alone from being killed by a WHOLE ARMY. If you don't want to use anyone who might be that strong - well, your fault. Same goes for the anvil - moral choice or logical choice? One is "easier" than the other.

  Your point fails due to the the fact that the said mage can do everything.. They can EVEN TANK with arcane warrior..  The only thing they are incapable of doing is picklock.. So yeah no you are wrong...  The fact of the matter the mages can do everything much better and really have little to no drawbacks compared to the other classes..

[Gvaz]

This game on normal is ****** easy, then again my main is a primal mage, i have wynne, lianna, and shale.



this comp can't really handle anyone else because the only one with CC is my mage (sorta) and shale.

[chizow]

Dalereth wrote...

I think one of the more important points raised in this thread is that there isn't enough character NPC variety.

Yep, that's exactly the point, its not so much that the design makes it impossible not to finish the game, it just funnels and steers gameplay in a decidedly homogenous manner.   No matter how much  you may try and differentiate gameplay experiences, you'll most likely have a very similar one simply because the mage-centric design of the game and limited NPC mage choices make that decision very easy for you.  Varied gameplay, realism and "challenge" should never come at the expense of tedium in any game.

Yes, you can get by with potion making and throwing tons of gold at the problem (and thus sacrificing everything else in the game that requires gold).  But why would you choose that option when you can accomplish the same and more by keeping a few mages?  Turning the game into an exercise in potion manufacturing and spamming with 4 tactics rotating potion guzzling = tedium imo

Besides the obvious disparity between mage and physical classes as a whole, there's also clear disparities between different weapon talent trees and magic trees.  For example, you don't need to distinguish yourself as a "Primal" or "Entropy" spec mage, you can simply pick and choose a single branch in that tree and retain all the benefits of that branch.  You really can't do the same though if you're a Shield or Dual-Wield or Archery build Warrior.  Why?  Because there's many more vertical synergies and dependencies in the weapon trees versus simple horizontal dependencies with magic spells, making mages much more modular and versatile in their specializations.

Again, this just makes creates fewer viable choices if you are indeed interested in a physical damage class.  Some combos/jobs work.  Most suck and need to be avoided until patched/fixed.  With physical damage you have little choice to take the good and the bad together.  With magic, you can avoid those talents that don't fit your build a lot easier.  Just take a look at the skill trees in-game or at the Missing Manual and it should be very obvious, the problems and imbalances are deep-rooted in the game's design.  Again, this doesn't make the game broken or unplayable, it just limits your options and choices as the clear disparity makes some classes a non-option. 

Weapon Talents
http://dragonage.gul...warrior_talents

Spell Talents
http://dragonage.gul...bilities/spells

Modifié par chizow, 12 novembre 2009 - 06:56 .

[ShadowKhan]

I play a mage and also have a warrior and play on hard. I'll admit there are places in the game where the difficulty is significantly different from where you are currently set in the game options. There are places where I think hard is not hard enough and other places where it just kicks my butt.



The Ishal tower is one such place. I deleted my first mage by the time he hit lvl 10 and created a new mage that is far more effective, one that happens to have healing and regeneration, and I can say that has made playing much more enjoyable.



Secondly the biggest change I made was customizing the NPC tactics to compliment my play style. Customizing the tactics has allowed me to move the difficulty from normal to hard.



But there are still places that make me reload...Top of the mage tower...Morrigan's mother... Recliffe ...to name a few. Personally I look at those places as a tactical challenge.



I could always use another NPC choice though.

[SirGCal]

Kukuritty wrote...

The problem is that you are asked to make choices - but nothing indicates that you may irreversibly hose youself.

That's an RPG... That's the whole point. You have to think and plan... This isn't a button masher like so many other would-be RPGs. It's not a 'follow the path from start to end' type of wana-be RPG crap.

Infact, I argue the opposite; that the game is indeed too easy... I'm playing on Nightmare and have already gone through one dragon with no issues. My archer is pretty stout but my fighter does most of the damage now-a-days unless I mana-dump one of the mages. Infact the biggest differences I've noticed from the difficulties are how much mages get resisted. So ya, if you're playing easy, mages would probably never get resisted and you'd just walk right on through. On Nightmare, my mages get resisted quite a bit. Combos don't work on higher-level mobs like they do on lower difficulties... And I burn through pots like they are going out of style... But I'm not having any difficulties yet on Nightmare mode. Infact, I wish there was something a bit harder still. I was just about to post on that item. Sure, if I'm not paying attention, a tiny mob can whipe the party. But if the game was easy, it wouldn't be fun to me. My party consists of at least one mage, usually two. A rogue and a tank. Build them up properly, plan your strategies, you'll be fine. I also have not lost any characters, keeping them around is rediculiously easy... Give them the gifts you always find (the right gifts to the right person, if you can't figure that part out; can't help ya...).

I did redcliff without the primary healer mage from the tower. I got her after the redcliff castle when I told the blood mage that I would go there to get help (wouldn't kill the mother). And this was on nightmare. The wolfden was harder for me even after that simply due to the quantity of bad guys (might be more on nightmare, dunno, haven't played that part on the easier modes... was bored below nightmare)...

The key I would say to playing well is making good choices by far. It's an RPG. You can totally kill any real RPG by making poor choices. But in this particular game, also important is: setting up the right talents, pausing and making decisions OFTEN, and having enough potions to flood a small town.

If you're reading this and you want to make it easier? I honestly would say then that this isn't exactly the right game for you. I think the game has a few balance issues but in the end, it's a pretty fun, yet good RPG with real-world consequences...

Heck, my MC still has 8 unused spells (lvl 15) that I can't decide which way to go. I wanted to save them up and then exparament. Now that I have them and have played with a few different combinations... I just realized I don't need em. I'm playing with NO AOEs cause when I started taking AOEs, Even Nightmare was rediculiously easy. So even my DPS mage is sticking to single-target items other than auras or wards.

[JamesX]

Have someone raise Herbalism Skill

Get the recipe for Greater and Potent Healing Salve

Sell all the Lyrium Potions/materials and buy materials for them from vendor (its pretty cheap to get).

Make bunch of options.

Use liberally.

Problem solved. On Normal, a Lesser healing potion heals 50 points. A greater heals over 100. It is better than anything a mage can do (since you can keep chucking as long as you have stock, where even Wynn usually runs dry half way through the battle).

[greeneggsnoham]

I agree, it's a bit odd that there are only two mage NPCs, seeing as the mage plays three roles in the party - DPS, Crowd Control, and healing. Actually, I would say that's the real problem - they play two roles that pretty much no one else can play - CC and healing. Rogues can do a little CC, but it's not nearly as effective as mass paralysis, blizzard, sleep, nightmare etc.



That's probably part of the reason Bioware made Wynne and Morrigan so totally opposite in character. They figured you'd be able to manage to keep at least one in the party. However, they undermined this by making it easy to lose Wynne altogether. I didn't purge the mage tower, but I did end up killing Wynne inside it. fortunately I had Morrigan so I was ok.



Oh, and for those saying that Shale can offer CC, that's only true if you have the expansion...

[Skemte]

JamesX wrote...

Have someone raise Herbalism Skill
Get the recipe for Greater and Potent Healing Salve
Sell all the Lyrium Potions/materials and buy materials for them from vendor (its pretty cheap to get).
Make bunch of options.
Use liberally.
Problem solved. On Normal, a Lesser healing potion heals 50 points. A greater heals over 100. It is better than anything a mage can do (since you can keep chucking as long as you have stock, where even Wynn usually runs dry half way through the battle).

  Yeah lets go see how that works when your character is in the jaws of a dragon.. Or a bear, wolve or malbari has overwhelmed them..

[greeneggsnoham]

JamesX - problem is not solved.



The advantage of a mage healer is that you can heal your characters even if they are stunned or knocked down. Poultices do not help against dragons, which leave you on your butt more often than your feet.



Really, what the game needs is another class that can do some healing. Bards perhaps, or templars.

[JamesX]

You expect to be just as good when you don't have a healer? You give and you take that is what balance is.

And normally by the time you are in the jaws of a dragon your healer is out of mana anyways. I won against the High Dragon by chucking down lesser healing potions.

It is a very viable tactic.

[Stormstrider32]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Might get into some spoilers ahead, be warned.

I just had to give up/delete a character out of frustration because I'd spent the last 5 hours dying to the same 2-3 fights up to Fort Draken...on Easy.

The problem? No Mages.

Now I'm no stranger to RPGs, BioWare or otherwise. NWN, BG2, JE, KotoR, ME - beat them all rather easily on the hardest difficulty, but I could appreciate the easier difficulties for people who wanted to focus on the story, which is the high-point of BioWares games in my opinion, the stellar story telling. This wasn't me, until DA:O. And for reference, I don't use Tactics because I already Pause the game to issue out orders to all characters.

I started out on Hard, having very little trouble for the first few hours because my party was pretty much set for me. My PC (Warrior) didn't really get along with Morrigan but I didn't really have an option at that point, so we toughed it out. As we go along, we begin assembling a merry little band - strangely, befeft of any and all Mages. I eventually amass a force of 5 Warriors and a Wardog, with still only Morrigan as a Mage. I was beginning to think this was a little strange, but that was likely my fault for not realising that if I had a Mage problem, I should have started at the Mages Tower (was the last place I visited).

By this point I've lowered the difficulty to Normal and am having to chug quite a few Poultices to get through some fights. My relationship with Morrigan is down to some -30, but I realize that without her I'd probably have to lower the difficulty still further. Dissapointing to say the least, given how I wished I could fill my party with NPCs I, and my character, found more interesting or got along with better.

To keep things short, I make an in-character choice to purge the Mages Tower, losing out on Wynn, and realise at this point I'd better lower the difficulty to Easy.

Well, when I again make an in-character choice to decline Morrigans offer on the eve of battle and she takes off, I'm starting to swear under my breath. There were only ever 2 Mage NPCs and they're both easily losable. Perhaps I should have made more compromises in playing the story, but heck, its on Easy now so that shouldn't be an issue. Right?

Well the return to Denerim is a nightmare. There are swarms of enemies, multiple Ogres, and archers in places I can't even hope to get to with just Rogues and Warriors. I die countless times, eventually giving up all hope on the steps of Fort Draken where's there's simply no way to make it through without CC and AoE damage.

I'm sitting there, quite puzzled at how this could have happened. But then in reading the forums and seeing how easy people are finding the game with a 3 Mage party and an Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage set-up, things start to make more sense.

Mages are ridiculously strong, whether for a gameplay or lore reason it doesn't really matter. This does 2 things which end up screwing me over. 1), BioWare balances the game difficulties on a curve, so to speak. Likely for the party consising of 2 or even 3 Mages. No sweat I say, I'll just lower the difficulty and enjoy the story. Problem 2). They have to go out of the way to prevent the Party from ever being able to consist of 4 Mages, as this would simply be too easy. So there ends up being a horribly skewed party balance for the Rogue or Warrior PC - only 2 possibly Mages, both of which can easily run off if you like playing a consistent character.

This leaves me in this rather hopeless situation. The game is balanced around Mages, on all difficulties, and I'm fresh out of them.

Its very disappointing to me that this gameplay and design problem ends up getting in the way of BioWares superb story-telling, even on the 'Story' diffuclty.

It is entirely possible to play through with no mages.  You simply have to be fanatical about herbalism (healing), poison making (aoe bombs), and traps.  Done in large enough quantities combined with the right tactics the results are impressive.

I understand how frustrating a restart can be but there a few games that are forgiving of bad game choices and those that are aren't worth my time.

Reroll and you will enjoy it.

[Stormstrider32]

Skemte wrote...

Teshronesh wrote...

Just one question. Did anybody try to play Baldur's Gate 2 without a Mage/Druid/Cleric and perhaps a Paladin? If you did so, would you say it was easy? Guys think at least a little out of character - they didn't create 3 basic classes (Warrior/rogue/mage) without any reason. If you want to use only rogues or only warriors it is purely logical that you don't have the abilities of t he other classes. Only because you are able to do everything with most of the classes in a well known mmo it doesn't mean you are able here, too.

Hell, Morrigans old Mother (well ok she has a special background...) rescued you alone from being killed by a WHOLE ARMY. If you don't want to use anyone who might be that strong - well, your fault. Same goes for the anvil - moral choice or logical choice? One is "easier" than the other.

  Your point fails due to the the fact that the said mage can do everything.. They can EVEN TANK with arcane warrior..  The only thing they are incapable of doing is picklock.. So yeah no you are wrong...  The fact of the matter the mages can do everything much better and really have little to no drawbacks compared to the other classes..

Then its a good thing this isn't an MMO where that would matter.

[Skemte]

Stormstrider32 wrote...

Skemte wrote...

Teshronesh wrote...

Just one question. Did anybody try to play Baldur's Gate 2 without a Mage/Druid/Cleric and perhaps a Paladin? If you did so, would you say it was easy? Guys think at least a little out of character - they didn't create 3 basic classes (Warrior/rogue/mage) without any reason. If you want to use only rogues or only warriors it is purely logical that you don't have the abilities of t he other classes. Only because you are able to do everything with most of the classes in a well known mmo it doesn't mean you are able here, too.

Hell, Morrigans old Mother (well ok she has a special background...) rescued you alone from being killed by a WHOLE ARMY. If you don't want to use anyone who might be that strong - well, your fault. Same goes for the anvil - moral choice or logical choice? One is "easier" than the other.

  Your point fails due to the the fact that the said mage can do everything.. They can EVEN TANK with arcane warrior..  The only thing they are incapable of doing is picklock.. So yeah no you are wrong...  The fact of the matter the mages can do everything much better and really have little to no drawbacks compared to the other classes..

Then its a good thing this isn't an MMO where that would matter.

 Yes but the fact of the matter is the mage is substantially more powerful than the other two classes..  Even in singleplayer this can be disheartening realizing that your warrior will never ever be as powerful as your npc mage who you half ass their leveling most times..   Furthermore as some one has already stated the mage has real choice.. In the beginning you pick your weapon spec and you stick with it.. You can not go outside of it because none of it synergizes with other trees.. Mage tree has none such restriction and can pick and choose as they like.

[Mularii]

Not sure about everyone else but this was my first rpg in a long time and I've enjoyed it immensely so far. I do admit that it finally dawned on me what people meant about using "pause" < spacebar >, resetting players tactics, modes (aggressive, defensive, et. al), as well as their current targets for each npc. Once I realized that when you are attacked by a larger unexpected mob of 3 to 5 you can reset your helpers I have had no problems at all with the game. I'm in process of documenting a step by step guide for newbies ( not noobs: which is a trolling dog term I hate). Let's face we were all newbies at one time... I now play in Hard mode and have been having the time of my life, and believe me I'm no afficiando of rpg's.... Best of luck and hopefully I'll have my short guide set up soon... or maybe one of you experts can direct new users to a guide on how to use and RPG....

[Knal1991]

Skemte wrote...

Stormstrider32 wrote...

Skemte wrote...

Teshronesh wrote...

Just one question. Did anybody try to play Baldur's Gate 2 without a Mage/Druid/Cleric and perhaps a Paladin? If you did so, would you say it was easy? Guys think at least a little out of character - they didn't create 3 basic classes (Warrior/rogue/mage) without any reason. If you want to use only rogues or only warriors it is purely logical that you don't have the abilities of t he other classes. Only because you are able to do everything with most of the classes in a well known mmo it doesn't mean you are able here, too.

Hell, Morrigans old Mother (well ok she has a special background...) rescued you alone from being killed by a WHOLE ARMY. If you don't want to use anyone who might be that strong - well, your fault. Same goes for the anvil - moral choice or logical choice? One is "easier" than the other.

in the whole lore it is said that mages are too powerfull, and a mage is needed to stop the blight....

I expected this before hand, when they said that mages have combination spell, this could've only mean you would be able to pick all them, And I must say I love it. Instead of nerfing the mage( wich isn't necessary) they should focus on creating new talents and techniques for the existing weapon classes. I also think that new starting classes are unnecesarry, like ninja could be part of the rogue specialisation for example, though new storylines would be nice...


  Your point fails due to the the fact that the said mage can do everything.. They can EVEN TANK with arcane warrior..  The only thing they are incapable of doing is picklock.. So yeah no you are wrong...  The fact of the matter the mages can do everything much better and really have little to no drawbacks compared to the other classes..

Then its a good thing this isn't an MMO where that would matter.

 Yes but the fact of the matter is the mage is substantially more powerful than the other two classes..  Even in singleplayer this can be disheartening realizing that your warrior will never ever be as powerful as your npc mage who you half ass their leveling most times..   Furthermore as some one has already stated the mage has real choice.. In the beginning you pick your weapon spec and you stick with it.. You can not go outside of it because none of it synergizes with other trees.. Mage tree has none such restriction and can pick and choose as they like.

[Mikey_205]

I dunno I never missed having a rogue and yet I couldnt imagine trying to finish the game without a warrior. I think rogues are a lil too weak but at the same time mages should be needed as much as warrior. I do find it odd that mages are offensive powerhouses or defensive powerhouses and yet there are not enough of them. Perhaps this will be fixed in DLC with new characters (heres hoping for an evil blood mage companion).

[kab]

The companions and their classes were not well thought out. The way the game is right now Wynne is almost, not quite, but almost a mandatory companion if you don't want to bang your head against a wall or roll a healer yourself.



So we've got Alistair, Sten, Shale, Oghren for Warriors, not to mention a Ranger can use a pet Bear and Morrigan can shapeshift into one, granted not optimal but doable. Then for Rogues, which you really don't need anyway, there's Leilana and Zevran. However, the one "role" that is pretty much required (not quite, but almost) we've got exactly ONE companion. Just to make things even more ridiculous, we're forced into a 4-7 hour linear major plot line to pick her up?



Not well planned. About your only other option is to try and move Morrigan into it, but you'll have to wait until at least 14 for Spirit Healer and you may be struggling for a few levels until you can pick up Regeneration.

[DragonRageGT]

After a tough run in Normal diff in my first playthough, with Wynne dead from challening Morrigan on their first metting, Hard diff with both of them seems so easy now in my second run... both with my 2h human warrior PC,
perfected in the 2nd run too. 

I just love too much Greatswords and my PC now is really good, I think. Lothering ->Redcliff -> Tower -> Fade... I suffered a lot in 1st run Normal and it was so easy on Hard... the fade solo, I truly enjoyed it this time. My warrior/berserker is hitting harder and with much more accuracy than the first one at the same level, at the same place... (1st one didn't had any specialization till 15 when he got zerker and I was kinda surprised to see it unlocked at level 7 for the new run... which I obviously took.)

I dare to say that if I take my PC mage (stored in pre-release CC) with those 2 gals for a Nightmare run, it will be even easier... hehe (though improved playing skills by experiencing the game with 2 runs also counts, I guess).

I used to solo BG after a couple of runs with the full party, then used a command to have all NPCs in the party...  it was a hell of a fun time... my elven fighter/mage/thief could solo it pretty easily. Doubt it can be done here...

But I gotta try the full all-party NPC's sometime in DA... just for the fun of it... and there is no real explanation other than OOC ones for why wouldn't we be allowed to travel with all our companions... Even the Fellowship had nine! =)

Modifié par RageGT, 13 novembre 2009 - 12:49 .

[Mikey_205]

Erm no he isnt wrong u could tank with a mage in BG2, you can do the same in NWN hell you can even picklocks. Mages have always been very versatile, Id say they arent nearly as versatile in this game as in BG with the exception that they can heal.

[chizow]

JamesX wrote...

Have someone raise Herbalism Skill
Get the recipe for Greater and Potent Healing Salve
Sell all the Lyrium Potions/materials and buy materials for them from vendor (its pretty cheap to get).
Make bunch of options.
Use liberally.
Problem solved. On Normal, a Lesser healing potion heals 50 points. A greater heals over 100. It is better than anything a mage can do (since you can keep chucking as long as you have stock, where even Wynn usually runs dry half way through the battle).

Again, not even close to viable compared to simply having even a single mage.  A few things you seem to conveniently forget here is that:

1) Magic rating directly contributes to the effectiveness of potions, so a lesser Lyrium pot on a mage is actually about the equivalent of a normal or greater heal pot in terms of amount restored, but that's not even close to accurate because

2) The amount of potential HP healed with a single mana potion far outweighs the straight HP gained from a health pot.  For example, 100 mana points translates into far more than that amount in healing given Heal abilities cost somewhere between 20-40 Mana.  So for the most basic heal, assuming you get ~50 hp back per regular heal, that's 50-250 hp from 4-5 heals with a single mana pot. 

And that's before even factoring in the huge disparity in costs involved if you were to spam health pots in rotation:

• 1 Elfroot (1) + 1 Flask (1) = 2 silver
  
  
• 3 Elfroot (3) + 1 Flask (1) + 1 Distillation Agent (18) = 22 silver
  
  
• 4 Elfroot (4) + 1 Flask (1) + 2 Distilliation Agent (36) + 1 Concentrator Agent (48) = 89 silver
  
  
• 5 Elfroot (5) + 1 Flask (1) + 2 Distillation Agent (36) + 2 Concentrator Agent (96) = 1 gold 38 silver
  
  

Prices might be off slightly, that's from what i remember from the Dwarve prices and figuring Elfroot and Lyrium are about 1s each. 

It should be fairly obvious that spamming potions without any mages will quickly become untenable as you will literally be burning through gold.  A good place to test this is to just run through something like Fort Drakon at the end with 4 melee.  At that point you don't need money but you can clearly see how quickly you're burning through pots.  I'll try it tonite as well, but given how fast the 4 melee party I had defending the gate burned through pots I don't think the situation is going to be much better with no healing, in fact I'm quite sure the health pot drain will be significantly worst.

Modifié par chizow, 12 novembre 2009 - 08:28 .

[ComputerEd]

Redcliffe is the toughest fight but by just taking the time to develop some tactics I was able to defeat it without lowering the game level.

[Zaquul]

This is a strange thread. If you play your main character such that you completely alienate the primary healing, buffing, crowd controlling and aoe dps class then what do you expect? The game is balanced based on the fact that such a class (mages) exist. If they balanced the game assuming that no one would use a mage in their party then it would be completely trivial.



You made your bed now you can lie in it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have tried more unconventional party make-ups for the challenge and are doing ok.



I agree that a couple more mage companion choices are needed, but for the vast majority of players the choice of Wynne or Morrigan (or both) should be fine. Even if you play "evil" Morrigan can be made into a healer. I am playing generally good and Morrigan is warm to me.