33 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain_Obvious_au]

So playing my second playthrough of ME2 - first time as a soldier, this time as a vanguard (a class I never played in ME1). As I'm playing, I thought 'hang on, this class plays a LOT like real special forces CQC operators'. What I mean by that is the Vanguard has powers, abilities, and weapons to get in close to the enemy very quickly, and eliminate them.

That is the role of special forces for Close Quarters Combat (CQC) and things like hostage rescue, assaults on buildings etc.

At the same time, the infiltrator seems to fill the other role of Special Forces - reconnaissance. They can cloak and move about the battlefield, whilst also being able to engage the enemy at long-range.

Thoughts? Personally I prefer the soldier, but I'm thinking they are more like regular infantry than special forces operators in the ME universe.

[Kronner]

I prefer Vanguard to any other class.



I'd say Sentinel is the tank of ME(2). Walks in and laughs

[Whereto]

umm its hard to say in this game. The Vanguard isnt very discreet to say the least, you could say that for most of the biotics as they cant kill all that silently(glowing blue is a give away)



Soldiers ands infiltrators seem to be more spec ops though the infiltrator doesnt have the set up to deal with cqc effectively or as effective as the solider. The engineer is a bit weak though he would be needed to crack the doors and the sentinel is a tank

[Seival]

>>> Are Vanguards and Infiltrators the 'real' Special Forces of the ME universe?



None of them. I played both ME1 and ME2 on insanity many times with different classes and I should say the following:



Engineer was the only real saboteur in ME1. He could lock down entire groups of enemies forever. Colosuses and Rocket Towers included. Playing as engineer in ME1 was really like shooting at completely disabled and useless enemies all the time. The most fun was final battle when sovereign-controlled Saren just walked around doing nothing and only catching shots from your weapons. The only weak point of engineer was low physical defense. But he had one of the best shields.



The only real saboteur in ME2 is soldier. He has disruptor ammo (overload delivered by ammo) against synthetics, inferno ammo (incinerate delivered by ammo) against organics. Both abilities not just damage but also control enemies when their defenses are disabled (overload can also overheat weapons of any type of target). This “special” overload and incinerate can be delivered at any distance with godlike precision. In edition soldier has Concussive Shot that can be used as a control or barrier-destroyer (350% damage against barriers). Combine this with Hardened Adrenaline Rush and Flashbang Grenade and you will get the best Special Forces and damage dealing in one class. In fact Soldier in ME2 is engineer+infiltrator with sentinel’s survivability and crazy damage output with all weapons.

[Whereto]

you dont have to be a saboteur to be apart of special operations.

[ashwind]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...
That is the role of special forces for Close Quarters Combat (CQC) and things like hostage rescue, assaults on buildings etc.

At the same time, the infiltrator seems to fill the other role of Special Forces - reconnaissance. They can cloak and move about the battlefield, whilst also being able to engage the enemy at long-range.

Thoughts? Personally I prefer the soldier, but I'm thinking they are more like regular infantry than special forces operators in the ME universe.

I dont think of soldiers as regular infantry, I think of them as weapon specialists. They can even run up to enemies an engage them in CQC if you feel like Shotgunning things - well Revenant in slow motion is fun too. Feels like Hollywood XD

Vanguards are by definition are soldiers that move in front of an army to spearhead attacks. ME2 did an excellent job with the Vanguard class, their Biotic charge allows them to do just that. I enjoy this class the most because of the excitement.

Infiltrators are definitely special forces - but since I do not like subtle combat solutions XD I dont play them as much as vanguards and soldiers.

In a way, I think all classes in ME2 are special forces - Shepard cant be a regular soldier 

[uzivatel]

Its more about Shepard being special force than anything else (as mentioned above).
Vanguards do not sound like "hostage rescue" guys, they sound like stormtroopers. They could be useful in urban warfare, but they would need soldier support as they seriously lack the medium range firepower. I imagine the Vanguard Shepard as the Ruthless guy fighting room to room through the underground fortifications at Torfan. It would be probably better to simply use Krogans, but Alliance kind of lacks them.

Modifié par uzivatel, 18 octobre 2010 - 11:17 .

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

All six classes seem like they'd be good at special operations missions. I personally main Sentinel, but that's because I want to come equipped for any situation.

[jolly_rog]

In the military, Special Forces troopers are volunteers from any branch and years of experience is a requirement just to attend selection. For obvious reasons most SF troopers would have started out in a combat arm (infantry, armour, etc...) although recruitment is open to anyone from any branch of service.



How this applies to ME? I see the six classes as the vocations vital for an Alliance SF (or N7) team.



Soldier: Rifleman/weapons specialist

Engineer: Combat engineer

Adept: Biotic support

Sentinel: Point man (due to tech armour)

Infiltrator: Scout/sniper

Vanguard: Urban combat/hostage rescue

[Praetor Knight]

jolly_rog wrote...

In the military, Special Forces troopers are volunteers from any branch and years of experience is a requirement just to attend selection. For obvious reasons most SF troopers would have started out in a combat arm (infantry, armour, etc...) although recruitment is open to anyone from any branch of service.

How this applies to ME? I see the six classes as the vocations vital for an Alliance SF (or N7) team.

Soldier: Rifleman/weapons specialist
Engineer: Combat engineer
Adept: Biotic support
Sentinel: Point man (due to tech armour)
Infiltrator: Scout/sniper
Vanguard: Urban combat/hostage rescue

I agree, also if you give warp ammo to the soldier, infiltrator and vanguard they have an even easier time handling enemies with barriers, where you can easily set it and forget it, with its damage to armor and health as a nice bonus.

Come to think of it, you could also compare vanguards to paratroopers with the high risk, high reward style intending to disrupt enemy lines and pound them into dust.

Sentinels remind me of a one man armoured division or rapid response Stryker unit that can deal with any battlefield situation.

Adepts and Engineers could also be compared to Forward Air Combat Controllers that perform close air support duties to control the battlefield, nothing like a lazer-guided precision air strike to ruin your day.

[Bozorgmehr]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Come to think of it, you could also compare vanguards to paratroopers with the high risk, high reward style intending to disrupt enemy lines and pound them into dust.

I think you can compare Vanguards best with WWII Kamikaze pilots - only ME2 Vanguards would still be able to get out of their planes (or what's left of them) and move on.

[Praetor Knight]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Come to think of it, you could also compare vanguards to paratroopers with the high risk, high reward style intending to disrupt enemy lines and pound them into dust.

I think you can compare Vanguards best with WWII Kamikaze pilots - only ME2 Vanguards would still be able to get out of their planes (or what's left of them) and move on.

True, vanguards move like a divine wind, biotic charge with bushido code and sense of honor, very tough opponent to face.

[jwalker]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Come to think of it, you could also compare vanguards to paratroopers with the high risk, high reward style intending to disrupt enemy lines and pound them into dust.

I think you can compare Vanguards best with WWII Kamikaze pilots - only ME2 Vanguards would still be able to get out of their planes (or what's left of them) and move on.

True, vanguards move like a divine wind, biotic charge with bushido code and sense of honor, very tough opponent to face.

Hehe, too bad we had to wait to LotSB to face another one who does that to you....
For ME3 I want vanguards charging like Vasir.

[Glory71]

N7 itself is code for Special Forces; 7 having the highest level of proficiency. I'd say, however, that all class are much like the Specialized Units mentioned with the exception of Vanguard which I think is a "freak" of nature class...LOL. Play it right and you'll obliterate anyone in a blink...irregardless of the game difficulty setting. 

[The Spamming Troll]

the singularity vanguard and the hacking infiltrator are the best classes in ME1 which means they definitely have that superior feeling to them. both of their pistols produce alot of damage, and imunity on the infiltrator is cake. although, biotics rock in ME1 and the vangaurds adrenalin rush never leaves you out of biotics. the other classes might have a few goodies, but they dont cover as much as the hybrids (sentinel would be great if it could get master marksman). youll get into alot of arguments if your favorite class isnt the vangaurd or infiltrator. special forces need to be bad ass, and the vangaurd and infiltrator seem to be that.

[jolly_rog]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Come to think of it, you could also compare vanguards to paratroopers with the high risk, high reward style intending to disrupt enemy lines and pound them into dust.

That didn't occur to me, Vanguards as paras actually makes more sense.  Like paratroopers, they certainly do speed and surprise very well (thanks to Charge).

Modifié par jolly_rog, 19 octobre 2010 - 01:33 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

I always thought that a 2 person team of Vanguard + Infiltrator would be unstoppable in ME2.

[RGFrog]

Soldier: Workhorse of the Alliance. Most officers and enlisted would fall into this class (those that carry weapons)

Sentinel: Officers only. And usually only those that work in small teams.

Engineer: traditional combat engineer. part of a group of engineers or a solo engineer element on a small team. Rarely an officer. Mostly enlisted.

Vanguard: Specialist. Either called in for specific needs or part of a small team filling the niche of CQC berserker.

Infiltrator: Sometimes enlisted filling the role of SDM, or in a small team as Sniper or covert point. Often a lone gunman for black ops/intelligence agencies within the Alliance holding non-military rank equivalent to an alliance officer.

Adept: Operative. Officer, part of a small team (battlefield manager, crowd control, etc.) but more often an undercover intelligence operative. Plain clothes without the need to carry much in the way of weapons, armor, or equipment.

[JaegerBane]

RGFrog wrote...

Soldier: Workhorse of the Alliance. Most officers and enlisted would fall into this class (those that carry weapons)
Sentinel: Officers only. And usually only those that work in small teams.
Engineer: traditional combat engineer. part of a group of engineers or a solo engineer element on a small team. Rarely an officer. Mostly enlisted.
Vanguard: Specialist. Either called in for specific needs or part of a small team filling the niche of CQC berserker.
Infiltrator: Sometimes enlisted filling the role of SDM, or in a small team as Sniper or covert point. Often a lone gunman for black ops/intelligence agencies within the Alliance holding non-military rank equivalent to an alliance officer.
Adept: Operative. Officer, part of a small team (battlefield manager, crowd control, etc.) but more often an undercover intelligence operative. Plain clothes without the need to carry much in the way of weapons, armor, or equipment.

Interesting points - particularly for the Infiltrator, Vanguard and Adept. Sentinel's jack-of-all-trades but limited skill set in either trade doesn't really fit into the whole 'special forces' concept, I suppose.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the soldier - I think they're closer to a decorated commando, along the lines of a SEAL/SAS operator. IIRC in the class description, it's mentioned that their 'ocular processor' (i.e. AR) isn't standard issue and hence, not something you'd expect to see on a basic grunt.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 20 octobre 2010 - 04:32 .

[Captain_Obvious_au]

uzivatel wrote...

Vanguards do not sound like "hostage rescue" guys, they sound like stormtroopers. They could be useful in urban warfare, but they would need soldier support as they seriously lack the medium range firepower.

Ah, but what if you have a Vanguard build with the addition of Assault Rifles (as I intend to hoose)? Then you really only have soldiers getting the sniper rifle as an advantage over the Vanguard, which is even less of an advantage is you choose to carry the Mattock rifle.

[Praetor Knight]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

uzivatel wrote...

Vanguards do not sound like "hostage rescue" guys, they sound like stormtroopers. They could be useful in urban warfare, but they would need soldier support as they seriously lack the medium range firepower.

Ah, but what if you have a Vanguard build with the addition of Assault Rifles (as I intend to hoose)? Then you really only have soldiers getting the sniper rifle as an advantage over the Vanguard, which is even less of an advantage is you choose to carry the Mattock rifle.

Also don't use area charge or any unprotected hostages or bystanders could be toast,

paratroopers could be the most reasonable equivalent for vanguards, in terms of tactics and strategy,
For example, YMIR's could be tricky for the average Vanguard, which could be compared to hardened emplacements or mobile armor

soldiers have many obvious parallels, marines (all are riflemen), rangers, green berets with all six classes able to fall under the Navy SEALS moniker.

Edit: double checked about US Marines training.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 20 octobre 2010 - 08:44 .

[sinosleep]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

soldiers have many obvious parallels, marines (all are riflemen),

As a former military man I can tell you that that saying applies to all the armed forces, although more specifically to ground forces like the army and marines since other branches train more with pistols than with rifles. Some folks say soldier or marksman first instead of rifleman first but it means the same thing. Regardless of specialization, ALL military personnel should be able to pick up a rifle (you qualify with one in basic and then requalify several times a year after all), jump in a foxhole, and know what to do and do it well. It's one of the reasons it bothered me to no end that lvl 1 Shepard couldn't hit the back side of a barn with any weapons in ME 1. I could never wrap my head around a military force having soldiers that couldn't shoot, regardless of what their specialization was.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 octobre 2010 - 08:31 .

[Foolsfolly]

That bothers me too sinosleep. You've got this one big thing in your background (the worst offender is the War Hero background) and right off the bat you can't shoot anything with any accuracy. And you can't even use a sniper scope!



It was bad. May it never come back.



As for the subject....eh, they're all special forces but I tend to think of the Infiltrator being it more...likely because of the nice Ghost in the Shell cloak and popping off enemies from range.

[Praetor Knight]

sinosleep wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

soldiers have many obvious parallels, marines (all are riflemen),

As a former military man I can tell you that that saying applies to all the armed forces, although more specifically to ground forces like the army and marines since other branches train more with pistols than with rifles. Some folks say soldier or marksman first instead of rifleman first but it means the same thing. Regardless of specialization, ALL military personnel should be able to pick up a rifle (you qualify with one in basic and then requalify several times a year after all), jump in a foxhole, and know what to do and do it well. It's one of the reasons it bothered me to no end that lvl 1 Shepard couldn't hit the back side of a barn with any weapons in ME 1. I could never wrap my head around a military force having soldiers that couldn't shoot, regardless of what their specialization was.

That bugged me too in ME.

Also to clarify my  last post, what I was told by a relative who was a paratrooper and someone who was a marine was that the slight difference is that the Army's Infantry are trained to use the various small arms, while other units do not get as extensive training like Transportation Corps or Engineers Corps and the Army Reserves, not saying that they don't, just not MOS qualified.

While evey Marine is a MOS qualified rifleman, but that could have been former Marine bias too.