41 réponses à ce sujet

[Slightly Campana]

Ok, so I've finished Origins, as a female alienage-born elf, but I was wondering what would have happened if I'd made different decisions. For instance, if...

1) ...I'd chosen Bhelen instead of Harrowmont? Would Bhelen have confided that he suspected Harrowmont of killing the previous king (as Harrowmont suspected Bhelen of causing the death of his elder brother)? Would Harrowmont have brought arms to the assembly and tried to fight the wardens instead?

2) ...I'd included the assassin, Zevran, in my party and increased his approval rating of me? Would he have still betrayed me in Denerim? (I read on one of the wikis that he offers a romance option...disappointed to have missed out on that but I didn't have room for rogues in my party...)

3) ...I'd gone along with what the Dalish elf leader suggested and killed Witherfang, instead of sympathising with her and persuading the elf to end the curse. Would he have retained his extended life and continued as the Dalish leader?

4) ...I'd defeated Loghain's captain (forgotten her name) while trying to extract Anora? Would I still have ended up in Fort Drakon prison, naked in a cell with Alistair?

5) ...I'd agreed to support Anora as Queen instead of Alistair at the Landsmeet? What would have happened to Loghain? Also, could I have persuaded Anora and Alistair to marry?

6) ...I'd refused Morrigan's ritual? Would my character have died when killing the arch-demon?

[The Almighty Ali]

You could always play again and answer those questions through that playthrough.

[Bullets McDeath]

Some of these I am not totally sure about. I'll make note of which ones.

1. Bhelen does not really talk about suspecting Harrowmont. I don't believe it is ever outright stated anywhere in the game, but it seemed pretty clear to me that Bhelen was the murderer. Bhelen most definitely caused the death of his eldest brother and framed his other brother for it, which you can learn more about in the Dwarf Noble origin.

2. If your approval rating is mediumish, Zevran will urge the Crows to back off but stay on the sidelines. If it is higher, he will join your party for the encounter and fight against them at your side.

3. This is one I'm not sure about. But I think Zathrian dies either way.

4. No, if you defeat Ser Cautherine you skip the Fort Drakon part, complete with it's xp, items and potentially hilarious scenarios. However, you can only really defeat her in that encounter by being cheap and cheesy as hell.

5. You CAN talk Alistair into marrying Anora. You need good Coercion and I think you have to have "hardened" him after his personal quest.  The other stuff in this question I do not know. I'm certain you can back Anora over Alistair if you wish (he may even be relieved that you do so) but I'm not sure what becomes of Loghain in this scenario, as Alistair will still wanna kill him.

6. This can go a couple different ways. Basically, if you refuse the DR, one of the Grey Wardens will have to die to see the Archdemon slain for good. That means you or Alistair, or potentially Loghain if you recruit him. You can take the hit yourself, talk Alistair into it if you're a wuss or get Loghain to do it to redeem himself. It is also possible that Alistair will essentially "kill-steal" the Archdemon from you, if you are a female and have romanced him.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 19 octobre 2010 - 12:39 .

[Seblin]

1) No Harrowmont concedes gracefully, Bhelen orders his execution.



2) Yes, if you increase his approval he stays with you(and a little persuasion I believe). He also is a love interest and you can have a 4 way with him and 2 other females.



3) Not sure.



4) No, you skip that whole area/quest.



5) Not sure about Loghain, but yes you can persuade them to marry.



6) Yes, you do the ultimate sacrifice.

[sylvanaerie]

1) its never really said who killed Endrin. Bhelen did kill his eldest brother Trian and framed the middle child (PC)

2) Zevran only betrays you if your approval is low...and I think it has to be REALLY low. By the time I get to that point in the game, hes over 70approval with me so its not an issue for me (and this is just talking to him and giving him the few gifts you get).

3) Zathrian dies if you side with the wolvves and go after the elves. He also dies if you convince him to break teh curse as his life force is tied to it (old blood magic). If you kill Witherfang he stays leader of the elves and in the epilogue instead of Lanaya (the new Keeper) easing tense relations between humans and the Dalish Zathrien makes things worse.

4)Ser Cauthrien can be fought easily enough but she's one of the hardest fights in the game (at least for me) I pulled her into the room wherre anora was so the archers wouldn't keep stunning me then chipped down her health then dealt with the archers afterward.

5)AListair doesn't have to be hardened unless you spare Loghain. OTherwise I think he refuses. But the wedding I think has to be discussed after you rescue anora but prior to going to the Alienage to deal with the slavers (when Eamon suggests talking to anora) and arranged prior. Loghain can be alive OR dead but as Anora is in charge, Alistair can't do much abouit it at this point.

6) if you refuse the DR one of th GW's (either you, Alistair or Loghain will die) and you as the player decides who makes the killing blow. If you, you get a nice funeral scene. If Loghain or Alistair eveyrone throws a party...go figure *rolls eyes* Lamest damn ending ever. EPIC FAIL Bioware. Also if Alistair is in love, (or still has romance flag active after you break up post Landsmeet) he will make the kill and nothing you say or do (unless you have a mod) will stop him.

[Panurge Pantagruel]

outlaworacle wrote...

4. No, if you defeat Ser Cautherine you skip the Fort Drakon part, complete with it's xp, items and potentially hilarious scenarios. However, you can only really defeat her in that encounter by being cheap and cheesy as hell.

All your questions are pretty much answered and I do agree with the guys that told you to play it again and try them out

But about Ser Cauthrien, I have defeated her head on, without the cheesy tactics, at the Hard difficulty setting. You just need to neutralize the archers and keep your mage/healer alive till the end. But make no mistake about it, it is the single hardest fight of Dragon Age Origins. I would take the Archdemon or Broodmother anytime instead of going against Ser Cauthrien on Howe's estate. I think I loaded some 5-6 quicksaves before finally defeating that b***! So I think the devs "wanted" you to go to Fort Drakon.

On a side note, if you fight her there she is listed as Elite Boss (highest category), but if you fight her outside the throne room at the landsmeet she is simply a Boss, and therefore much easier.

[Bullets McDeath]

Damn! Maybe I'll try her on my current playthrough as an Arcane Warrior since it is pretty ridiculously powerful. I only ever tried to beat her in my first few playthroughs and I did so the usual way, by luring her into the hallway and dog-piling her, then cleaning up her minions afterwards. But I wasn't so good at the game back then... I just quit trying because I honestly like the Fort Drakon bit. I always make Sten and the Dog come save me. Great dialogue.

[Panurge Pantagruel]

outlaworacle wrote...

Damn! Maybe I'll try her on my current playthrough as an Arcane Warrior since it is pretty ridiculously powerful. I only ever tried to beat her in my first few playthroughs and I did so the usual way, by luring her into the hallway and dog-piling her, then cleaning up her minions afterwards. But I wasn't so good at the game back then... I just quit trying because I honestly like the Fort Drakon bit. I always make Sten and the Dog come save me. Great dialogue.

Yeah, I gave up trying to beat her my first time around. Punishingly hard fight!
Fort Drakon is fun indeed! Sten and Oghren also make me laugh a lot:D

[KnightofPhoenix]

sylvanaerie wrote...

3) Zathrian dies if you side with the wolvves and go after the elves. He also dies if you convince him to break teh curse as his life force is tied to it (old blood magic). If you kill Witherfang he stays leader of the elves and in the epilogue instead of Lanaya (the new Keeper) easing tense relations between humans and the Dalish Zathrien makes things worse.

To be fair to Zathrian, he ends up realising that he is an old man living long past his time and decides to dissapear one day. Lanaya will presumabely take over anyways.

[wickedgoodreed]

Zathrian will basically admit to having a death wish if you choose the right dialogue options just after killing all the werewolves is over. You're given the option of killing him then too.

[ejoslin]

2. Zevran only betrays you if your approval is REALLY low. As long as you're at at least 26+ warm, he will not betray you. IF, however, you have the romance turned on but you're between 26+ interested and 70+ care, he may leave the fight, and you can ask him about it later. He won't necessarily leave -- there is one response that will have him stay at those approvals as well.

[Slightly Campana]

Thanks very much for all the thorough replies

Zevran's approval of me was really low, because after he first joined my party I didn't use him at all. He didn't fit with my party make up, and I didn't give him any gifts or engage him in dialogue.

The Almighty Ali wrote...
You could always play again and answer those questions through that playthrough.

The reason I asked these questions here is that I don't want to do this. I only like to do one playthrough of a game. But I was interested to know what the consequences would have been had I decided a few things differently.

For instance, Harrowmont, despite being very conservative, seems to have been the "moral" choice. But both contenders were flinging so much propaganda at each other it was actually quite hard to make a choice.

outlaworacle wrote...
you can only really defeat her in that encounter by being cheap and cheesy as hell.

Does luring her into the library room (after Anora's room on the left) and getting her to chase one character round and round the shelves while the others shot at her count as cheesy? I tried three or four times to kill her because I thought I was supposed to, and managed to get her down to about 20% before she killed the last character I had alive. I was just about to load the previous save when a cut scene started up and I realised it wasn't game over. Anyway, I'm glad to hear other people had trouble with her too.

sylvanaerie wrote...
Also if Alistair is in love, (or still has romance flag active after you break up post Landsmeet) he will make the kill and nothing you say or do (unless you have a mod) will stop him.

Aww, bless him. He grew on me. I loved his voice acting. I think I would have liked Zevran better, but I needed a tank more than I needed a rogue.

From reading these replies, the only regret I have about the game is not engaging the companion characters in dialogue more.

Modifié par Slightly Campana, 19 octobre 2010 - 12:16 .

[LobselVith8]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

3) Zathrian dies if you side with the wolvves and go after the elves. He also dies if you convince him to break teh curse as his life force is tied to it (old blood magic). If you kill Witherfang he stays leader of the elves and in the epilogue instead of Lanaya (the new Keeper) easing tense relations between humans and the Dalish Zathrien makes things worse.

To be fair to Zathrian, he ends up realising that he is an old man living long past his time and decides to dissapear one day. Lanaya will presumabely take over anyways.

But Lanaya is a leader who puts an end to the conflicts from the start; she's a presence at the royal court and helps the other clans deal with the humans when the Hinterlands are granted to them. Zathrian can become a hero in the minds of the people, having immortality but sacrificing his life to end the curse. If he lives, he never comes to terms with what happened to his family. Based on his epilogue slide, it seems that Zathrian does more harm than good at the end of the Blight, due to his inability to forgive humans, while Lanaya works to achieve a lasting peace between the humans and the elves right from the start.

[LobselVith8]

Slightly Campana wrote...

For instance, Harrowmont, despite being very conservative, seems to have been the "moral" choice. But both contenders were flinging so much propaganda at each other it was actually quite hard to make a choice.

I think that was intentional. Unless you play as a dwarf, you never really get a real understanding of Orzammar; as an outsider, you have to make educated guesses based on limited information. On the surface, Harrowmont seems like the moral choice, but it's only if you completed the game or heard the criers that you learn that he has no issue with the casteless being stepped on. Harrowmont becomes a poor King and does nothing to change things, while Bhelen is directly responsible for the casteless getting more rights.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Lobsel.

I know that.

[Slightly Campana]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Slightly Campana wrote...

For instance, Harrowmont, despite being very conservative, seems to have been the "moral" choice. But both contenders were flinging so much propaganda at each other it was actually quite hard to make a choice.

I think that was intentional. Unless you play as a dwarf, you never really get a real understanding of Orzammar; as an outsider, you have to make educated guesses based on limited information. On the surface, Harrowmont seems like the moral choice, but it's only if you completed the game or heard the criers that you learn that he has no issue with the casteless being stepped on. Harrowmont becomes a poor King and does nothing to change things, while Bhelen is directly responsible for the casteless getting more rights.

Ah, thanks. I like the moral ambiguity there, and the way the dwarven society is so opaque to a non-dwarven player.

This thread has made me decide to try Awakenings, which I wasn't sure I would before.

[DWSmiley]

Slightly Campana wrote...

This thread has made me decide to try Awakenings, which I wasn't sure I would before.

Awakenings has its good points but it is not comparable to Origins, especially the relationships.  I think a second playthrough of Origins with a different party offers a lot more.

[ejoslin]

DWSmiley wrote...

Slightly Campana wrote...

This thread has made me decide to try Awakenings, which I wasn't sure I would before.

Awakenings has its good points but it is not comparable to Origins, especially the relationships.  I think a second playthrough of Origins with a different party offers a lot more.

I agree with this.  Awakening really falls short in the interactions with companions.  Play Origins again, try to make friends with all your companions, try another love interest (or two, and get caught in a triangle).  There's a lot that DA:O offers that Awakening doesn't even touch upon.

[LobselVith8]

Awakening does recognize the accomplishments of a Warden, though, in terms of the position that the Hero of Ferelden is given and how everyone treats you, regardless of whether the Warden is an elf, a mage, or both.

[AnniLau]

Slightly Campana wrote...

Zevran's approval of me was really low, because after he first joined my party I didn't use him at all. He didn't fit with my party make up, and I didn't give him any gifts or engage him in dialogue.

Huh, really? I pretty much always have Zevran in my party...IMO, unless you completely respec her, he far outshines Leliana in most fights. You'd probably want to level his lockpicking right away if you weren't running a rogue PC though.

I myself am having a very amusing three-rogues-and-an-Alistair playthrough this time.

[Slightly Campana]

AnniLau wrote...

Slightly Campana wrote...

Zevran's approval of me was really low, because after he first joined my party I didn't use him at all. He didn't fit with my party make up, and I didn't give him any gifts or engage him in dialogue.

Huh, really? I pretty much always have Zevran in my party...IMO, unless you completely respec her, he far outshines Leliana in most fights. You'd probably want to level his lockpicking right away if you weren't running a rogue PC though.

I myself am having a very amusing three-rogues-and-an-Alistair playthrough this time.

I didn't use Leliana either most of the time. I had Alistair as tank, Wynne as healer/cc, Morrigan as dps/back up healing/cc and me as a 2h melee dps. I didn't want to tank myself, and the only character I could have dropped for a rogue would have been Morrigan, but I found her far too useful. I initially tried to use Leliana as ranged, but I had problems keeping her on a bow, she kept switching to melee all the time. This was before I had completely come to grips with the tactics system, and I found her annoying to work with.

I was pretty happy with the dual mage, dual warrior set up, so Zevran never really got given a chance. The only time I did use a rogue was when I did a quick party changeover and backtrack through a completed area to clear out the locked chests, and I just used Leliana because I'd already levelled her lockpicking.

So anyway, reading all the comments about Awakening vs Origins, maybe I will give the latter another playthough after all. And try some different builds as well.

[ejoslin]

I don't worry so much about a balanced party. A tank per se is not that necessary, nor is a healer as long as you have tons of potions. Rogues are nice as they disarm the traps as well; you get a lot more experience with them in the party.



What is great is all the different party banters -- you miss out on a lot if you always take the same three companions with you.



Rogues, though, especially later in the game, are such crazy damage. Spec'ed right, and with good weapons, I see Zevran, with momentum and coup de grace, hitting for between 70 - 100 lightening fast -- if I'm playing a DW rogue, my warden is something like between 90 -120 per hit, again, lightening fast (with a DW rogue who has momentum, do not use haste). When I play a warrior, I usually maker her DW. She always has threaten up, and is technically the tank, but things are dying so quickly, it's not that big a deal.

[Slightly Campana]

ejoslin wrote...

I don't worry so much about a balanced party. A tank per se is not that necessary, nor is a healer as long as you have tons of potions. Rogues are nice as they disarm the traps as well; you get a lot more experience with them in the party.

What is great is all the different party banters -- you miss out on a lot if you always take the same three companions with you.

Rogues, though, especially later in the game, are such crazy damage. Spec'ed right, and with good weapons, I see Zevran, with momentum and coup de grace, hitting for between 70 - 100 lightening fast -- if I'm playing a DW rogue, my warden is something like between 90 -120 per hit, again, lightening fast (with a DW rogue who has momentum, do not use haste). When I play a warrior, I usually maker her DW. She always has threaten up, and is technically the tank, but things are dying so quickly, it's not that big a deal.

I wanted the extra healing options becuase there were several times when I ran out of potions. The party needed a lot of healing because I didn't level up fast enough while going through the storyline (my main was level 17 at the finish, and the companions were level 16). That's why I went with Morrigan who could do crazy dps as well as healing. I also cba to work out the rogue build when I had the warrior and mage builds and tactics working so nicely. Not trying to suggest that's the only way of doing it, just that it's the way I chose to do it because it worked for me.

But now I know what I'm doing better I can try more flexible party arrangements.