117 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

@Sylriel: Anora would not be able to be executed until post-origins (though possibly pre-coronation) as unhardened Alistair won't want to kill her and hardened Alistair will want her around to be queen in case he gets himself killed. That's at least some calming-down time.

[Sylriel]

Panurge Pantagruel wrote...

Wait, regardless of what should be done to/about Anora (Sylriel does have point about her being a clear threat), what about the future of Ferelden?
Aren't wardens infertile? Don't they die shortly after mid-age?
If so then, taking the throne for yourself (male warden) or as partner of Alistair (female W), marrying Alistair with Anora or even supporting Alistair as sole ruler would all end up in a similar way: in 20-30 years Ferelden would be without a king/queen and without a heir to the throne to fill the power vacuum and avoid a possible civil war. And even though the warden still has his brother Fergus as a blood relative and therefore next in line, there are no guaranties that Anora, who will probably be very alive by the time the warden decides to go and die in the deep roads (mine would go there for sure! One last battle at the Dead Trenches!), would let Fergus count as a successor or Fergus' possible future son.
Seems like only if Anora remain as the sole ruler for the time being, later taking a husband and having a son with him, will there be any chance of stability in the long run. Or not?

That a Warden will have a difficult time having children and that two Wardens trying to have them will be next to impossible is a good point.  It is a great point, actually.

However, I still will go with my Human Noble wanting to remove her just for her association to the people that wanted the Human Noble's family's death.  My non HN Wardens will have a different take on things, of course.

And to be honest, I really do not have an answer to the heir question.  I have thought about it but I have not found any answer yet.

[Panurge Pantagruel]

Well, I wish we had the chance to play that possible future, I mean, to play from the end of DA:O onwards some 10 years or so.
That was my greatest hope for DA2: that it would be, as in Baldur's Gate II, a sequel with the same characters, plus the consequences of your actions on the previous game.
Anyways, I got a whole new perspective on the characters of Origins by reading what you guys wrote here. Thanks!

Modifié par Panurge Pantagruel, 22 octobre 2010 - 06:36 .

[jpdipity]

It seems to me that the game is set up that no matter who is placed on the throne, no heir will be produced. Anora does not re-marry and is suspected as being barren by several sources in the game. Wardens have vastly reduced fertility and virtually no fertility when paired. So, no matter the combination, it is more likely than not that there will be no heir to throne.

[ejoslin]

I can see a couple of scenarios where there'd be an heir to the throne, aside from Morrigan having the child of the king (Alistair or HNM mairred to Anora).

This is going on the assumption that a Cousland prince/princess consort child would be considered for the throne, of course.  HNM having a child with Leliana, HNF having a child with Zevran. HNF would be easier to pass off as Alistair's as well.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:33 .

[Ryzaki]

Also couldn't Alistair have a child with another woman and Fem Cousland pass it off as her own?

Edit: Also shouldn't it be more difficult for a FemWarden to have a child? Because the baby has to remain inside of a tainted body for 9 months?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:36 .

[Sarah1281]

This is going on the assumption that a Cousland prince/princess consort child would be considered for the throne, of course. HNM having a child with Leliana, HNF having a child with Zevran. HNF would be easier to pass off as Alistair's as well.

If Zevran's child is claimed as Alistair's then probably but no one would want a child of an elf on the throne. They're just not ready. Also, their status as consort wouldn't secure their illegitimate child the throne but the fact that they're a Cousland might. Leliana's child might face difficulties because she's Orlesian (and even if the nobles aren't obsessively anti-Orlesian they might still balk at placing the child of one on the throne) and if Anora doesn't want the child of an affair that is now indiscrete to succeed her.

[Sarah1281]

Ryzaki wrote...

Also couldn't Alistair have a child with another woman and Fem Cousland pass it off as her own?

Much harder to do as she'd need to fake a pregnancy but possible.

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Also couldn't Alistair have a child with another woman and Fem Cousland pass it off as her own?

Or even Anora, but I'm not sure Alistair would do that (maybe in a political marriage, though, to anora or to Queenie Cousland).  However, at least with a FemCous, you can tell him just after the landsmeet you're trying for an heir with someone else.

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also couldn't Alistair have a child with another woman and Fem Cousland pass it off as her own?

Or even Anora, but I'm not sure Alistair would do that (maybe in a political marriage, though, to anora or to Queenie Cousland).  However, at least with a FemCous, you can tell him just after the landsmeet you're trying for an heir with someone else.

Eh. If Fem Cousland can get him to sleep with Morrigan she can get him to sleep with anyone reasonably attractive. 

Also Hardened Alistair (which is the only one I'll put on the throne) doesn't seem to mind infidelity as much. (Since you can get the Mistress ending with him). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:39 .

[ejoslin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

This is going on the assumption that a Cousland prince/princess consort child would be considered for the throne, of course. HNM having a child with Leliana, HNF having a child with Zevran. HNF would be easier to pass off as Alistair's as well.

If Zevran's child is claimed as Alistair's then probably but no one would want a child of an elf on the throne. They're just not ready. Also, their status as consort wouldn't secure their illegitimate child the throne but the fact that they're a Cousland might. Leliana's child might face difficulties because she's Orlesian (and even if the nobles aren't obsessively anti-Orlesian they might still balk at placing the child of one on the throne) and if Anora doesn't want the child of an affair that is now indiscrete to succeed her.

Well, of course it would be claimed as Alistair's.  I said that.  Since human + elf = human, there may be rumors, but if Alistair were to acknowledge the baby, it should be ok.

As far as passing off a baby of Leliana's (or any other woman) I don't think that would actually be necessary.  Alistair is a bastard himself.

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also couldn't Alistair have a child with another woman and Fem Cousland pass it off as her own?

Or even Anora, but I'm not sure Alistair would do that (maybe in a political marriage, though, to anora or to Queenie Cousland).  However, at least with a FemCous, you can tell him just after the landsmeet you're trying for an heir with someone else.

Eh. If Fem Cousland can get him to sleep with Morrigan she can get him to sleep with anyone reasonably attractive. 

Also Hardened Alistair (which is the only one I'll put on the throne) doesn't seem to mind infidelity as much. (Since you can get the Mistress ending with him). 

Disagree.  Alistair slept with Morrigan to save their lives, not because he found her attractive.  And he was NOT happy about it.

Edit: He's in love with the warden, which is why he's willing to accept her as a mistress if hardened.  He also needs to be talked into it.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:40 .

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...


Disagree.  Alistair slept with Morrigan to save their lives, not because he found her attractive.  And he was NOT happy about it.

Edit: He's in love with the warden, which is why he's willing to accept her as a mistress if hardened.  He also needs to be talked into it.

No. But that had more to do with him hating Morrigan than the act itself. He probably would've been just as repulsed at the thought of sleeping with Loghain. 
Did you miss the threesome cutscene at the pearl?    Hm...that gives me a rather tempting thought of Alistair's Queen/FemWarden/Alistair threesome fic. 

And yeah...talking into it. You don't think the FemWarden can talk him into having an heir for the good of Fereldan? Alistair, even more so a hardened Alistair is willing to listen to reason even if he's not happy about what you're talking him into.

Plus he always falls hook-line and sinker for the whole "If you really love me..." line.

A manipulative FemCousland has Alistair as practically her puppet.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:45 .

[Sarah1281]

ejoslin wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

This is going on the assumption that a Cousland prince/princess consort child would be considered for the throne, of course. HNM having a child with Leliana, HNF having a child with Zevran. HNF would be easier to pass off as Alistair's as well.

If Zevran's child is claimed as Alistair's then probably but no one would want a child of an elf on the throne. They're just not ready. Also, their status as consort wouldn't secure their illegitimate child the throne but the fact that they're a Cousland might. Leliana's child might face difficulties because she's Orlesian (and even if the nobles aren't obsessively anti-Orlesian they might still balk at placing the child of one on the throne) and if Anora doesn't want the child of an affair that is now indiscrete to succeed her.

Well, of course it would be claimed as Alistair's.  I said that.  Since human + elf = human, there may be rumors, but if Alistair were to acknowledge the baby, it should be ok.

As far as passing off a baby of Leliana's (or any other woman) I don't think that would actually be necessary.  Alistair is a bastard himself.

I didn't say that they would need to pass off Leliana or whoever the HNM had a child with's baby as Anora's but I don't think Alistair being a bastard (especially here as he didn't take the throne) means that they're thrilled about crowing bastards, they just didn't have much choice. And Leliana's problems would stem from her being Orlesian, as I said, and from the fact that Anora wants to keep affairs discrete and if you announce you've got a bastard child that proves to everyone that 1) Anora definitely is the problem in bed and 2) you've clearly been cheating on her.

[Ryzaki]

Plus all FemCousland has to say is mention how quickly Uncle Eamon wrote of Anora for being unable to produce heirs. For the safety of her position  (as well as reputation) I'm sure Alistair would be willing to have a child and pretend that it's hers. 

Yes I know she's the hero of Fereldan. But people have short memories at times. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:49 .

[LobselVith8]

Sylriel wrote...

If you had read my original post as you claim you did, then what was the basis for your response concerning becoming prince-consort?  My post specifically stated Anora was not going to be made queen ever.

Asking me to refer to a prior post in what's esssentially a curt reply doesn't really substantiate any validity to your claim of being off base - I responded to what was written to me, that's all.

Sylriel wrote...

There are sure to be moral questions to arise from my Human Noble Wardens choice.  Despite them however, my Human Noble Warden will have power over the throne though of Ferelden though influence either as Alistair's advisor if male, or as Alistair's queen if female.  Anora will be considered as a threat, both as the former queen and as a daughter of Loghaine, and shall be removed with extreme prejudice.  All this to spite Howe and Loghaine for their attempts to destroy my Warden and the Cousland family.

I can see the authority that would lie with a Chancellor, especially with the ruler trusting their judgement, but there would be issues with a Queen Cousland, mainly the issue of fertility (since two Grey Wardens can't procreate naturally, and that knowledge may be common). There's also the comment no the Ferelden map in WH that reads how the Bannorn are turning to the Arl of Redcliffe for leadership.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 22 octobre 2010 - 06:26 .

[Sarah1281]

I don't think that they can force a king to ditch his wife nor would they try and depose a monarch because he won't give them a continuation of his dynasty so there's really nothing they can do besides bug Alistair to find someone new.

[ejoslin]

Point taken about the threesome, and also about Leliana/Anora. However, if no other babies are produced, my guess is a bastard would be declared heir (and in the case of a HNF and someone else, I imagine it would be passed off as Alistair's as, well, him being cuckolded would most likely NOT be something that anyone would want to get out). You know, though, either Alistair or the HNM getting someone else pregnant would not be looked at the same way. It's not ideal, but it's better than not having an heir at all.