94 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr]

Leeroi wrote...

If anybody has tried Miranda + Thane combo with Slam bonus power for vanguard, they'll know how usefull it is. Regardless of the cooldown you can always set up warp bombs with those 2 in your squad. You have slam, miranda has warp and slam, thane has warp... You practically don't need weapons.

Miranda can use Overload too, so you can warp detonate all normal enemies no matter if they have shields, armor or barriers - nice.

[tonnactus]

Reave has an area version and could damage all defenses significantly.It clear what is better.

[SirValeq]

tonnactus wrote...
It clear what is better.

Actually it isn't. It all only comes down to personal preference. I think the OP can make up his own mind about what bonus power he will take after reading about different uses of both in this thread. But there is clearly no superior choice because it all depends on his playstyle.

[curly haired boy]

i like slam over reave right now.

[Kurt M.]

I'm a Slam addict, especially against husks. I just love stripping them out of their armor with the Locust + Inferno ammo and Slam them. It's like eating pistachoes

Besides, Slam is, IMO, much more reliable than Pull in Vanguards. I really wish I could substitute that power for Slam in order to leave a free slot for another power (maybe Barrier?), so I'd have Shockwave to use against covered enemies (it bypasses any cover), and Slam for uncovered ones.

Modifié par Gladiador2, 23 octobre 2010 - 09:52 .

[JaegerBane]

Gladiador2 wrote...

Besides, Slam is, IMO, much more reliable than Pull in Vanguards. I really wish I could substitute that power for Slam in order to leave a free slot for another power (maybe Barrier?), so I'd have Shockwave to use against covered enemies (it bypasses any cover), and Slam for uncovered ones.

Pull sometimes messes up, true, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to claim it's so unreliable it would be better to replace with Slam. Pull ranks as one of the best crowd control powers in the game - it's the only power that the Vanguard has by default that can compete with Charge for cooldown. Against Husks it's second only to Singularity.

[Kronner]

Pull (Field) is great only after you put 10 points into it, rank 1-3 is nothing special. 3 Points have to be wasted on freaking Shockwave, which blows.
And husks are harmless anyways. Not to mention squad Pull is even better..no travel time and the very same effect.

Modifié par Kronner, 23 octobre 2010 - 12:57 .

[ryoldschool]

Gladiador2 wrote...

I'm a Slam addict, especially against husks. I just love stripping them out of their armor with the Locust + Inferno ammo and Slam them. It's like eating pistachoes

Besides, Slam is, IMO, much more reliable than Pull in Vanguards. I really wish I could substitute that power for Slam in order to leave a free slot for another power (maybe Barrier?), so I'd have Shockwave to use against covered enemies (it bypasses any cover), and Slam for uncovered ones.

I just did Reaper IFF with vanguard, slam as bounus, and I must have used slam 50 times vs husks ( Predator pistol with Inferno to strip) - lots of fun instakills them.  Pull is a bummer because you have to use 3 points in shockwave to get it - never use shockwave on insanity.

[Bozorgmehr]

Pull sometimes fails pulling enemies into the air, but it doesn't happen often and targets will stil glow (=ragdolled); other powers will do double damage, weapons still recieve damage bonus and they can also be warp detonated. The problem with biotics are cryo effects; Vanguards can use Cryo Ammo which is devastating against husks, but during the actual freezing you cannot use biotic powers properly.

I have had many issues using Pull on freezing targets; though I can't remember this happening when Kronner and M14567 use Slam in their Vanguard vids. In fact I do remember enemies that froze during Slam's lift animation and where shattered on impact. Does anyone know if Slam is less buggie combined with Cryo Ammo than Pull?

[Kurt M.]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Pull sometimes fails pulling enemies into the air, but it doesn't happen often and targets will stil glow (=ragdolled)

Yeah, I really hate that bug...

[lazuli]

I would like to add a bit of a warning about using Slam for Warp bombs. Sometimes the lift duration is so short that your squadmates won't hit it with Warp in time, perhaps due to them reloading or taking cover. This has been a problem for me on the xbox, but I can remedy it by flagging my squadmates into positions where they cannot shoot at enemies.



I would imagine that this does not occur as often on the pc. I don't use the xbox "hotkeys" for squadmate powers, so when I want to pull off a Warp bomb it involves at least one pause. Bringing up the power wheel isn't instantaneous, so there's some time lost there.

[Kronner]

On PC, they will Warp bomb as soon as you press the button (and you do not see your squadmates - this is the key, as long as they are out of your sight, they will cast their power insantly). Slam is good enough for setting up a Warp bomb even at rank 1.

Modifié par Kronner, 23 octobre 2010 - 03:33 .

[kstarler]

I have not been a fan of Slam in the past, but as some others have said, based on Sinosleep's vanguard tutorials, I tried it out and absolutely loved it on Insanity. Warp bombs feel epic when you detonate a Slam (just remember to be in front of your bomber so the animation doesn't delay the warp), and against husks it is especially helpful because of the quick CD.

[tonnactus]

iLikeBWgames wrote...


Actually it isn't. It all only comes down to personal preference.

Yes.If someone like a crappy single target biotic power more then reave,sure.

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

Pull (Field) is great only after you put 10 points into it,

A long lift duration and additional 100 percent damage make pull a great power even at level one.

[Kronner]

Slam is better for setting up Warp explosions, because it is instant power.

I do not need CC (Pull) for defenseless enemies anyways (Vanguard; Adept is a different story).

Modifié par Kronner, 24 octobre 2010 - 06:47 .

[tonnactus]

I dont need warp explosions on my vanguard anyway.Because defenseless enemies fly away with the impact instead of being in the shotgun range.

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...

Pull (Field) is great only after you put 10 points into it, rank 1-3 is nothing special.

The same could be said of Cryo ammo. Not to mention the fact that warp explosions are downright awkward with freezing effects.

3 Points have to be wasted on freaking Shockwave, which blows.

And this is precisely why I find the whole 'unlock' system such a pile of poodoo. I don't know what on earth it was supposed to achieve, being forced to spend points on shockwave (a defenceless CC power) to unlock pull (a defenceless CC power that needs to be evolved to function as a proper CC).

And husks are harmless anyways. Not to mention squad Pull is even better..no travel time and the very same effect.

Squad pull isn't flatly better. It does lack travel time, but in turn it's useless for dragging enemies out from behind cover or doing anything complcated, like angling warp bombs. It's useful for a stand-in that doesn't hit your CD, but by that logic there's no reason at all to take Slam.

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

I dont need warp explosions on my
vanguard anyway.Because defenseless enemies fly away with the impact
instead of being in the shotgun range.

I use them to kill enemies I can't charge, against Collectors that have yet to land and as a mid range attack when I feel like it. Also, I love the Slam animation.

JaegerBane wrote...

The same could be said of Cryo ammo. Not to mention the fact that warp explosions are downright awkward with freezing effects.

What does Cryo ammo have to do with this anyway? I usually have Cryo for my squad and never had any problems with (Slam)Warp explosions. You can explode a frozen target.

JaegerBane wrote...
Squad pull isn't flatly better. It does lack travel time, but in turn it's useless for dragging enemies out from behind cover or doing anything complcated, like angling warp bombs. It's useful for a stand-in that doesn't hit your CD, but by that logic there's no reason at all to take Slam.

What logic?

For me Slam is simply better than Pull or Reave on a Vanguard.

Reave has way too long cooldown and I do not enjoy wasting my CD just to strip defenses.

Pull is useless to me. Completly useless. I like to Charge and one shot as many enemies as possible. Slam just adds variety and potent mid range attack.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 octobre 2010 - 07:27 .

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
What does Cryo ammo have to do with this anyway?

Because the same criteria you used to disregard Pull also fits Cryo Ammo. Clearly, having to bung 10 points into a power before it reaches it's potential is not ideal, but as demonstrated, the fact alone is not reason to disregard it. Considering Area Pull has a 3-sec cooldown, the fact it can suck up all enemies within a 3 metre radius is quite a feat.

As for warp exploding frozen targets - there's nothing specifically stopping you from doing this, merely that the game is very prone to bugging out under these circumstances. It's a known issue with the freeze mechanics in ME2.

What logic?

The logic that squad pull is good enough to replace Shepard's Pull entirely. Logically if this is the case then there's no point spending your bonus slot on Slam, as they're very similar abilities - particularly with stuff like Stasis also available.

Pull is useless to me. Completly useless. I like to Charge and one shot as many enemies as possible. Slam just adds variety and potent mid range attack.

I'm just setting things out objectively, Kronner. You're free to like or dislike whichever power you want - all I'm saying is that I'm not sure it's clear-cut that there's an objective argument to rate Slam over Pull - as they sport the same cooldown, effective against the same targets and are effective at similar ranges. The only difference being that Pull synergises with Charge, allows choice of another bonus power and is far better for use with Warp Explosions, while Slam.... does a bit of damage. It's prime advantage is that you don't need to spend points in Shockwave to get it... but conversely, you're denying yourself Stasis, which is far more potent than Slam will ever be

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

Because the same criteria you used to disregard Pull also fits Cryo Ammo. Clearly, having to bung 10 points into a power before it reaches it's potential is not ideal, but as demonstrated, the fact alone is not reason to disregard it. Considering Area Pull has a 3-sec cooldown, the fact it can suck up all enemies within a 3 metre radius is quite a feat.

As for warp exploding frozen targets - there's nothing specifically stopping you from doing this, merely that the game is very prone to bugging out under these circumstances. It's a known issue with the freeze mechanics in ME2.

Cryo Ammo is good at rank one too, but that is not the point. They both serve different purpose and comparing them is no good.

The logic that squad pull is good enough to replace Shepard's Pull entirely. Logically if this is the case then there's no point spending your bonus slot on Slam, as they're very similar abilities - particularly with stuff like Stasis also available

For setting up Warp explosions, Slam is just faster (better) than Pull. Like I said I am not interested in using Pull to CC anything. That is my opinion anyways (Vanguard, once again).

I'm just setting things out objectively, Kronner. You're free to like or dislike whichever power you want - all I'm saying is that I'm not sure it's clear-cut that there's an objective argument to rate Slam over Pull - as they sport the same cooldown, effective against the same targets and are effective at similar ranges. The only difference being that Pull synergises with Charge, allows choice of another bonus power and is far better for use with Warp Explosions, while Slam.... does a bit of damage. It's prime advantage is that you don't need to spend points in Shockwave to get it... but conversely, you're denying yourself Stasis, which is far more potent than Slam will ever be

Pull synergies with Charge? How? Pull + Charge combo is inefficient and useless. (though it looks cool)

Pull has travel time. Slam is instant. Clear winner for me. Much better for setting up Warp bombs.

As for Stasis, once again, I do not play Vanguard to CC one target at a time.

To be honest I never used bonus power until I saw a video by m14567, which is by far the coolest ME2 vid I have seen to date. Made me want to use Slam to set up Warp bomb.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 octobre 2010 - 07:58 .

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...


I use them to kill enemies I can't charge,

For that case even a level 2 shockwave is far better and faster.(more then one enemy and throw enemies of the ledges)

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...


I use them to kill enemies I can't charge,

For that case even a level 2 shockwave is far better and faster.(more then one enemy and throw enemies of the ledges)

maybe I was not clear. I use Slam this way:

squad stripping power (Warp or Overload) + my Slam + squad Warp = Warp bomb

For this purpose, Slam is superior to Pull or Shockwave. Slam is the only active power besides Charge that I use. So I like the very short cooldown.

I do not want to Stasis Mech, Pull 5 Husks etc. I much prefer Charging in and shooting with my trusty Claymore.

All this makes Slam the perfect power for my Vanguard.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 octobre 2010 - 08:08 .

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
Cryo Ammo is good at rank one too, but that is not the point. They both serve different purpose and comparing them is no good.

You're missing the point, Kronner. Both are CC powers that are easy on the cooldowns that become and order of magintude better when maxed out. Refusing to compare them when using the same logic to disregard one but not the other essentially renders the point nonsensical.

For setting up Warp explosions, Slam is just faster (better) than Pull. Like I said I am not interested in using Pull to CC anything. That is my opinion anyways (Vanguard, once again).

Slam is only faster at setting up a warp explosion in the sense that it is insta-cast. Realistically this equates to little more than a second difference, and you have less margin for error as it's only viable for a bomb when in the lift phase (which not only lasts a fraction of a second on 1) and moves an enemy away from other enemies, which is precisely what you don't want when setting off a warp explosion.

As I said, I'm coming from an objective standpoint here. Whether you're interested in using Pull or not is irrelevant to to it's CC ability - that's not something I'm disputing.

Pull synergies with Charge? How?

You answered your own question

Pull has travel time. Slam is instant. Clear winner for me. Much better for setting up Warp bombs.

In theory. In practice this distinction you're making equates to a fraction of a second that doesn't allow error. If you honestly think this translates into something major, great, but objectively it doesn't make much difference.

As for Stasis, once again, I do not play Vanguard to CC one target at a time.

As I said, what you play a Vanguard for isn't really relevant to the point I'm making. I'm just pointing out there are more potent powers available, that's all

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

You're missing the point, Kronner. Both are CC powers that are easy on the cooldowns that become and order of magintude better when maxed out. Refusing to compare them when using the same logic to disregard one but not the other essentially renders the point nonsensical.

Really? One is a passive power that you activate once. The other is active power that has to compete for cooldown. Comparing them is pointless.

JaegerBane wrote...
Slam is only faster at setting up a warp explosion in the sense that it is insta-cast. Realistically this equates to little more than a second difference, and you have less margin for error as it's only viable for a bomb when in the lift phase (which not only lasts a fraction of a second on 1) and moves an enemy away from other enemies, which is precisely what you don't want when setting off a warp explosion.

As I said, I'm coming from an objective standpoint here. Whether you're interested in using Pull or not is irrelevant to to it's CC ability - that's not something I'm disputing.

Have you actually tried Slam warp explosions? Sounds to me like you have not. "Moves enemy from other enemies" is just not true. Slam does not move any enemy away. It lifts enemy allowing you to take full advantage of the Warp radius. Slam bomb Example

In theory. In practice this distinction you're making equates to a fraction of a second that doesn't allow error. If you honestly think this translates into something major, great, but objectively it doesn't make much difference.

Once again, you clearly do not have any idea about Slam. Slam allows you to press 1-2-3 buttons and be done with it. Pull travels, you can curve it, but it is slower. Second is a lot of time, relatively speaking. Not to mention the difference can be a lot more than 1 second.

As I said, what you play a Vanguard for isn't really relevant to the point I'm making. I'm just pointing out there are more potent powers available, that's all

Potent how? It just comes down to personal preference.


Do not forget I am not saying Slam is always better than Pull. Just for Vanguard it can be. It definitely is for my Vanguard.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 octobre 2010 - 08:32 .