94 réponses à ce sujet

[ryoldschool]

smithgroup wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Pull (Field) is great only after you put 10 points into it, rank 1-3 is nothing special. 3 Points have to be wasted on freaking Shockwave, which blows.
And husks are harmless anyways. Not to mention squad Pull is even better..no travel time and the very same effect.

You must have never played on insanity, if you think Husks are harmless...

smithgroup obviously didn't know who kronner was when he made that comment.  I think what he was trying to say is that husks are a pain because they only exist to break you out of cover - they demand your immediate attention, and they are easy to kill, but you have to kill them if anything else is around because the other guys will kill you.  That is what I notice on horizon and also on the bubble part of the SM.

[sinosleep]

taine wrote...

Yes, those will all instakill them, but only if they have no armor... which means that none of them will work on Insanity until you bring it down, which makes them much much more dangerous...

On the topic of the thread, I would say that Slam is much more useful on lower difficulties, while Reave is much more useful on the top couple of difficulty settings since absolutely everything has some amount of defenses, and it can cut through all of them (with an AoE, no less).

Defenses are overrated. There is an AOE instant defense stripper for every defense in the game, every weapon is keyed to a particular defense and when you combine this with the fact that there are also ammo types for every defense it makes getting rid of them a breeze, particularly against enemies like husks that have practically no defenses in the first place. In vol. 5 of my vanguard tutorial with basically no pistol upgrades and hardly any melee upgrades I can strip a husk of his armor entirely with ONE pistol shot and ONE melee. You can also use any combination of

1. inferno ammo
2. incineration blast
3. reave
4. warp
5. warp bombs nearby
 
to strip husk armor. They are a joke regardless of class, level, or difficulty as far as I'm concerned.

Modifié par sinosleep, 30 octobre 2010 - 06:45 .

[Kronner]

Husks are harmless because they do not shoot at you, and you can outrun them easily. Unless you screw up and put yourself in a position where they have you cornered, but that is player stupidity and has nothing to do with defenses.
When I feel like stripping husks, I use squad powers. Not necessary most of the time though.
Husks are a complete joke, regardless of your class IMHO.

Most pro-Reave fans like the defense stripping ability, I find it redundant, because I prefer to use weapons to kill and for example with Claymore I do not care about defenses at all - OSOK.
When I need Warp bomb I use squad stripping ability, my Slam and squad Warp to detonate. It is better for me because I can then Charge a different enemy group (with defenses up) right away, something that is not possible with Reave, which has longer cooldown. Anyone who says Slam has little or no use on Insanity has no clue about the power. People have different playstyles, obviously, and apparently some people like to soften enemies before Charging in, but not everyone does.

This is NG+ Insanity, Vanguard with Slam, Claymore shotgun - videos by m14567.

Collector Ship
(some husks in this one)

Collector base

Watch these and see for yourself that Slam is VERY useful on Insanity.

Modifié par Kronner, 30 octobre 2010 - 06:56 .

[Bozorgmehr]

smithgroup wrote...

Kronner wrote...

And husks are harmless anyways

You must have never played on insanity, if you think Husks are harmless...

LMFAO I don't know what's funnier; Kronner never playing Insanity or claiming Husks are dangerous

[CommanderSheperd117]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

smithgroup wrote...

Kronner wrote...

And husks are harmless anyways

You must have never played on insanity, if you think Husks are harmless...

LMFAO I don't know what's funnier; Kronner never playing Insanity or claiming Husks are dangerous

what about on horizon? that area where you fight the pretorian? Theres two scions and at least 12 husks there. My men died like cockroaches, leaving me with 3 clips left. My shotgun did nothing. it was run! those @%%&*()! are on your tail! no! my shields! stupid scion! maybe if i shoot it! no, not allowed to do that because of the husks. You see how that part took me a couple tries.  I was in an infinite loop. If i didn't kill the scions, they would kill me. If i tried to, The husks would kill me.

[Kronner]

CommanderSheperd117 wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

smithgroup wrote...

Kronner wrote...

And husks are harmless anyways

You must have never played on insanity, if you think Husks are harmless...

LMFAO I don't know what's funnier; Kronner never playing Insanity or claiming Husks are dangerous

what about on horizon? that area where you fight the pretorian? Theres two scions and at least 12 husks there. My men died like cockroaches, leaving me with 3 clips left. My shotgun did nothing. it was run! those @%%&*()! are on your tail! no! my shields! stupid scion! maybe if i shoot it! no, not allowed to do that because of the husks. You see how that part took me a couple tries.  I was in an infinite loop. If i didn't kill the scions, they would kill me. If i tried to, The husks would kill me.

And that is NG+ Insanity, which is more difficult than NG at that point in the game. (max level enemies, very few upgrades for Shepard)

Modifié par Kronner, 30 octobre 2010 - 12:02 .

[Bozorgmehr]

CommanderSheperd117 wrote...

what about on horizon? that area where you fight the pretorian? Theres two scions and at least 12 husks there. My men died like cockroaches, leaving me with 3 clips left. My shotgun did nothing. it was run! those @%%&*()! are on your tail! no! my shields! stupid scion! maybe if i shoot it! no, not allowed to do that because of the husks. You see how that part took me a couple tries.  I was in an infinite loop. If i didn't kill the scions, they would kill me. If i tried to, The husks would kill me.

Kronner alreay posted M14567 trip to Horizon; Vanguard NG+

Here's how my Adept dealt with the Horizon situation: Stasis Adept on Horizon ; and another vid Solo SG Adept - IFF Mission
There's only one rule fighting Husks; Don't let them surround you

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 30 octobre 2010 - 12:46 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Slam is good controller power, especially when it has been evolved into crippling slam. Slam is perfect power for those who already have powers that strip defenses or for soldier for quick domination against enemy.
Reave is good for classes without anti armor/barrier and helps dealing with everything throughout the game on Insanity and Insanity NG+. The same for Slam. Instead of laughing and criticising and showing that ' I know better ', make a walkthrough with each of those powers (just Reave and Slam). Remember that everyone have different game style.

Modifié par PnXMarcin1PL, 30 octobre 2010 - 12:50 .

[Kurt M.]

Kronner wrote...

CommanderSheperd117 wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

smithgroup wrote...

Kronner wrote...

And husks are harmless anyways

You must have never played on insanity, if you think Husks are harmless...

LMFAO I don't know what's funnier; Kronner never playing Insanity or claiming Husks are dangerous

what about on horizon? that area where you fight the pretorian? Theres two scions and at least 12 husks there. My men died like cockroaches, leaving me with 3 clips left. My shotgun did nothing. it was run! those @%%&*()! are on your tail! no! my shields! stupid scion! maybe if i shoot it! no, not allowed to do that because of the husks. You see how that part took me a couple tries.  I was in an infinite loop. If i didn't kill the scions, they would kill me. If i tried to, The husks would kill me.

And that is NG+ Insanity, which is more difficult than NG at that point in the game. (max level enemies, very few upgrades for Shepard)

I'm doing an Insanity playthough now, and I've realized that husks and abominations are a big annoyance. They serve as ground muscle, and usually spawns and run for you at the worst place and situation, when you're under cover from heavy fire. That's why you must kill them ASAP, and Slam is great for that. Not counting that it does roughly the same damage than Lift, and it's more reliable than it.

BTW, what is NG+ and NG?

[Kronner]

NG+ is New Game Plus - you start a new ME2 game by importing ME2 savegame. You start at level 30 and keep all your guns. You get less credits (than ME1 import) and lose all upgrades. That makes the game harder for some time (up to Collector Ship IMHO..then it is pretty much the same as regular Insanity game). NG is just new game.

Modifié par Kronner, 30 octobre 2010 - 01:09 .

[Bozorgmehr]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Slam is good controller power, especially when it has been evolved into crippling slam. Slam is perfect power for those who already have powers that strip defenses or for soldier for quick domination against enemy.
Reave is good for classes without anti armor/barrier and helps dealing with everything throughout the game on Insanity and Insanity NG+.

It isn't importan which powers Shep has; what matters is your squad.

Instead of laughing and criticising and showing that ' I know better ', make a walkthrough with each of those powers (just Reave and Slam). Remember that everyone have different game style.

A lol'd at someone who didn't know Kronner; I never laugh whenever there's a serious discusion going on. I do however critize people making false or incomplete assumptions. Whenever it comes to Reave there's this (prehistoric) idea that it's some kind of super power (which it is not). The usual arguments such as; Reave strips defenses; Reave's health regen; Reave's CC etc. Sure it does; but there are other powers available who can do the same and do it better.

Playstyle has nothing to do with Reave; your squad selection does. Why does Shep need Reave to deal with armor for example if you already have Mordin in your squad? Why do you want to use Reave to CC (unprotected enemies if you can use Pull? etc etc.

[Arhka]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Slam is good controller power, especially when it has been evolved into crippling slam. Slam is perfect power for those who already have powers that strip defenses or for soldier for quick domination against enemy.
Reave is good for classes without anti armor/barrier and helps dealing with everything throughout the game on Insanity and Insanity NG+. The same for Slam. Instead of laughing and criticising and showing that ' I know better ', make a walkthrough with each of those powers (just Reave and Slam). Remember that everyone have different game style.

I would think that Neural Shock would be better for those with more combat focus as it provides a steadier line of sight + accuracy debuff if you don't finish them off. Slam would just ping pong them and mess up your aim. Yes, it does do damage, but if you're going for incapacitate and shoot, NS is better.

But then again, I guess Slam can also be a substitute for Throw as a quick finisher.

So basically - NS, Cryo Blast/Ammo, Reave for steady LoS and CC

Slam, Throw - quick finisher.


Problem solved.

[Bozorgmehr]

Exactly!

Reave's defense stripping effect is only useful if it strips defenses in one go - you'll need rank 3 or 4 at least to accomplish this whereas powers such as Slam, NS, Stasis, Flashbang work well at rank 1. Thus it requires quite an investment to make Reave worthwhile on Horizon; severely gimping Shep's other abilities (NG). The Area version isn't powerful enough to strip multiple defenses instantly (6/6 biotic upgrades + duration or power bonuses are needed to do this); since you can only get 1 biotic upgrade before Horizon, Area Reave is pretty useless on Horizon (NG+).



The only time (Area) Reave is very useful is on the CS; though you can recruit Samara (and unlock Reave) before going there (if you want to use it); and Shep can still pick a bonus power.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^ I can see that.



As a vanguard noob, I took reave b/c it seemed to give me more room for error. However, I've been making due with lvl 1 reave for the longest time, b/c I felt I needed my other powers more.



Since slam pretty much has full functionality from lvl 1, I'll be trying that out in my next playthrough.

[ryoldschool]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Exactly!
Reave's defense stripping effect is only useful if it strips defenses in one go - you'll need rank 3 or 4 at least to accomplish this whereas powers such as Slam, NS, Stasis, Flashbang work well at rank 1. Thus it requires quite an investment to make Reave worthwhile on Horizon; severely gimping Shep's other abilities (NG). The Area version isn't powerful enough to strip multiple defenses instantly (6/6 biotic upgrades + duration or power bonuses are needed to do this); since you can only get 1 biotic upgrade before Horizon, Area Reave is pretty useless on Horizon (NG+).

The only time (Area) Reave is very useful is on the CS; though you can recruit Samara (and unlock Reave) before going there (if you want to use it); and Shep can still pick a bonus power.

On vanguard insanity xbox, Reave is useful at lower levels to take down armor - posted before about taking down threasher maul with lvl 2 reave on Grunt Loyality ( Slam does nothing there ).  On horizon - the two scions with the husks ==> even at level 1 it helps taking down the scions armor after you take care of the husks ( my squad got killed by the scions and did not want to use two medigel to revive { had mordin and miranda to help with armor }  if you revive them they get killed right away ).  Its also useful on Shadow Broker final fight ( cause you got to take down the armor at least twice - just about ran out of ammo on that fight ).

One of the earliest vanguard guides (  Sabresandiego ) recommends reave as bonus, so its not so clear either is better.  This is his notes:

 
Reave Build: Complete domination, this is the most versatile vanguard build throughout the game and my favorite
10 Heavy Charge
10 Champion
10 Inferno Ammo
10 Squad Cryo Ammo
10 Area Reave
 
Reave Tips:
-Use area reave
-Reave when there is no tactical charge option available
-Do not use reave if you are exposed, or under fire --> you need charge off cooldown for shield replenishment
-Reave is best used against long range targets to soften groups of enemies before a tactical charge
-Use reave to strip defenses to allow yourself to use biotic combos like warp explosions, pull, and charge.
 

[Kronner]

Thresher Maw - Cain, though Reave is definitely great choice here. As well as against Preatorians. But Vanguards have Inferno ammo and heavy pistols, the Maw is a joke.

Scions on Horizon - Charge, line up Scions and interrupt their attack by using squad powers so they do not pose real threat. Shotgun is better than Reave against these guys. Slam can interrupt their attack - Reave too - but cooldown is much shorter for Slam.

Shadow Broker - Charge, SB can take 7 Claymore shots, so it takes about 10-11s to take down both shields and armor on Insanity. Reave adds no benefit here. Unless you spam it from cover, of course.

Reave is not good against blue shields, which you encounter for majority of the game and has twice as long cooldown compared to Slam.

So it once again comes down to personal preference. Some like this and others that.

But imho Reave is kinda overrated by now (at least in this section), sure it is awesome power, but to say that Slam is less useful (or useless) on Insanity only indicates that whoever said it never used Slam correctly.

Modifié par Kronner, 31 octobre 2010 - 02:25 .

[ryoldschool]

Kronner wrote...

Thresher Maw - Cain, though Reave is definitely great choice here. As well as against Preatorians. But Vanguards have Inferno ammo and heavy pistols, the Maw is a joke.

Scions on Horizon - Charge, line up Scions and interrupt their attack by using squad powers so they do not pose real threat. Shotgun is better than Reave against these guys. Slam can interrupt their attack - Reave too - but cooldown is much shorter for Slam.

Shadow Broker - Charge, SB can take 7 Claymore shots, so it takes about 10-11s to take down both shields and armor on Insanity. Reave adds no benefit here. Unless you spam it from cover, of course.

Reave is not good against blue shields, which you encounter for majority of the game and has twice as long cooldown compared to Slam.

So it once again comes down to personal preference. Some like this and others that.

But imho Reave is kinda overrated by now (at least in this section), sure it is awesome power, but to say that Slam is less useful (or useless) on Insanity only indicates that whoever said it never used Slam correctly.

[ryoldschool]

Hit the damnnnn enter key too soon.



@ Kronner

(1) Thresher Maw - my slam playthrough it took forever to take it down with pistol. Don't like to use heavy weapon on the mission.

(2) Horizon - did not bring Jacob or Grunt, was using cryo lvl one so when squad died had to take them down myself.

(3) Shadow Broker - yeah don't use claymore, I use Scimitar and even with infernal ammo ran out of ammo with both playthroughs, had to use heavy weapon to finish that fight ( slam ). You are right - I spammed Reave from cover when I was out of mattock and shotgun ammo.

(4) Blue suns - yept, using cryoguard strategy don't use reave much on those fights.



All I'm saying is that sometimes Reave can help you in places where you need it, with some set-ups that need help with armor. I never said that slam is less useful or usless on Insanity, just that reave made some fights easier for me. I enjoyed using slam against husks ( wonder on Reaper IFF ) and outside LotSB ship.



Also, there (hopefully) will be some new users looking at these forums because EA put ME2 on sale for $10.00 US for PC this weekend. I just want to mention the options available and that there is no absolute best way to do anything.