Felene wrote...
You lost me, I don't watch the Simpsons.
It's. Futurama.
...
The lack of yellow skin is a dead give-away. Watch Futurama, it's vastly superior to the Simpsons.
Do the DEVS get offended by complaints about the game?
Débuté par
Perfect-Kenshin
, oct. 20 2010 04:36
#101
Posté 20 octobre 2010 - 11:02
Saibh
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It's. Futurama.
...
The lack of yellow skin is a dead give-away. Watch Futurama, it's vastly superior to the Simpsons.
Retour en haut
#102
Posté 20 octobre 2010 - 11:03
Bobad
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Felene wrote...
Bobad wrote...
Felene wrote...
LOL! This thread is turning into Mr. Gaider 's"THAT GUY" thread with bunch of THAT GUY posting "I AM NOT THAT GUY".
-snip-
That Guy?, their only regret is that they had Boneitis?
You lost me, I don't watch the Simpsons.
Futurama, he was a character from the 80's that everyone only ever referred to as that guy.
I also corrected my shocking grammar.
Modifié par Bobad, 20 octobre 2010 - 11:03 .
#103
Posté 20 octobre 2010 - 11:11
ChickenDownUnder
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Firky wrote...
I don't really dig the argument that "They wouldn't be in it if they didn't have a thick skin."
Makes perfect sense, actually. One of the more useful lessons you learn in a game design school is how to take a heavy amount of criticism. There is no quietly turning in some artwork, but getting it mounted and posted--with you standing next to it--each week so that not only the teacher, but everyone in the class can critique. And, unless your work is flawless (or even then) you'll receive a fair amount of different people not liking different parts of your work, or so on. Or if your stuff is really bad, the teacher will actually rip it off the wall and throw it in the bin while in front of you.
And that's just a taste of what it can be like in a real game company. Like if you were a concept artist that spent days on some background or another, and then your boss takes a quick glance, decides he hates it, and then you have to toss it aside and begin all over again. Even if it was a design he had previously liked but Mary down in Accounting decided it needed more pink.
So a random poster deciding to not like something--without explaining why they don't like it --because it isn't just the way they wanted? Shouldn't cause much more than a twinge.
....but not like I would really know or anything.
Modifié par ChickenDownUnder, 20 octobre 2010 - 11:13 .
#104
Posté 20 octobre 2010 - 11:13
Maverick827
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Oh...your...god.Saibh wrote...
You just became much cooler.
#105
Posté 20 octobre 2010 - 11:18
Faz432
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To the OP, don't confuse the gaming industry with art, yes it can be creative but is made primarily to make money, not to provoke thought or feeling. Art , true art is a selfless expression of ones imagination and emotions through a medium, so games created by large corporations can not be truly considered art.
To the Devs, what has this got to do with DA2?
End of line!
Just messin jeeze!
To the Devs, what has this got to do with DA2?
End of line!
Just messin jeeze!
Modifié par Faz432, 20 octobre 2010 - 11:27 .
#106
Posté 20 octobre 2010 - 11:41
Felene
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eyesofastorm wrote...
Felene wrote...
LOL! This thread is turning into Mr. Gaider 's"THAT GUY" thread with bunch of THAT GUY posting "I AM NOT THAT GUY".
Evidence of what I'm saying and a reason I only post on the Bioboards once a quarter these days. Well... I guess that makes twice this quarter now.
Here's the thing.... some of us have been enjoying the parties for years. It is difficult to enjoy a party when someone start shouting at the bartender because they no longer provide their favorite drinks.
This is not me yelling at those people btw. I stopped caring right around the time when the first THAT GUY start to offended my favorite bartender. This is me asking them to give the bartender a break and find another favorite drink the bartender can provide.
[Spam image removed.]
Modifié par Stanley Woo, 21 octobre 2010 - 04:49 .
#107
Posté 20 octobre 2010 - 11:42
RinpocheSchnozberry
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Mike Laidlaw wrote...
..but I will admit to a few eyerolls whenever anyone musters up the urge to refer to us as stupid / out to [verb] [noun] because we hate game play
Poop cheese.
Slap dolphins.
Bark arias.
Am I warm yet?
#108
Guest_slimgrin_*
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:30
Guest_slimgrin_*
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They kill kittens?
I'm never buying another Bioware game again.
I'm never buying another Bioware game again.
#109
Guest_INVAYNED_*
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:33
Guest_INVAYNED_*
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i would hope not.if thats the case they have no business in this business."haters ganna hate","Fanboys wont admit flaws".its all the same they need to take it as a building block for the next installment or next franchise created
#110
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:33
Onyx Jaguar
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I must be the only person who dabbles in something that the words "Creative Criticism" inspire mad rage and adrenaline.
#111
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:35
Lord_Valandil
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slimgrin wrote...
They kill kittens?
I'm never buying another Bioware game again.
You didn't know? Really?
But, we are the ones to blame for that massacre, keep opening threads about the gameplay trailer, and more kittens will explode
#112
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:36
Ortaya Alevli
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Then let's keep pressing it.
Sooner or later, they'll run out of kittens and it'll be nugs to start exploding.
Sooner or later, they'll run out of kittens and it'll be nugs to start exploding.
#113
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:37
Lord_Valandil
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Ortaya Alevli wrote...
Then let's keep pressing it.
Sooner or later, they'll run out of kittens and it'll be nugs to start exploding.
What will happen when they run out of kittens? I hope they don't start to kick puppies XD
I would love to see some Nugs exploding
#114
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:37
Onyx Jaguar
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That's what we want right, pig bombs
#115
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:39
Ortaya Alevli
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Right, that's the plan. Nug bombs.
#116
Guest_[User Deleted]_*
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:55
Guest_[User Deleted]_*
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I would assume that anyone would be indignant (at least partly) towards criticism that is personal (We are human beings, after all), and or blatantly vague, as in “this sucks” or “I do not like this” (with nothing else follows). Frankly, I would rather that the Developers spend “part” (not all, for they have a life, after all) of their free time thinking about how they can improve or make a better game, than mulling over some vague comments made by some unknown using the internet as a type of cushion or buffer to play hide and seek with others.
The best remedy to any situation is to state your dislike(s) (or like[s]) in a clear, concise way. You are commenting because, I would assume the game (or whatever subject) is dear to you or that you enjoy it. Therefore, detailing the flaws, and how they affect you in a sensible, logical way, are your best approach. If you do have some logical suggestions, state them clearly. If you do not have any, it is okay, too.
The creative Team/Developers, if they read your reason(s) for disliking the game or some aspect of it, or some improvements (as they know the game in question) they have implemented , would (I imagine) note it as something that requires some consideration, or simply move along because what you see is the way they desire to proceed with the game.
The best remedy to any situation is to state your dislike(s) (or like[s]) in a clear, concise way. You are commenting because, I would assume the game (or whatever subject) is dear to you or that you enjoy it. Therefore, detailing the flaws, and how they affect you in a sensible, logical way, are your best approach. If you do have some logical suggestions, state them clearly. If you do not have any, it is okay, too.
The creative Team/Developers, if they read your reason(s) for disliking the game or some aspect of it, or some improvements (as they know the game in question) they have implemented , would (I imagine) note it as something that requires some consideration, or simply move along because what you see is the way they desire to proceed with the game.
#117
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 02:35
Fishy
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Some ppl try hard to feel accepted and appreciated and thus become an annoyance.
They want to be heard.
So they end up with insult and trolling and they might(with a big 'M') feel better inside. Because they feel like they have more control .
Bioware create a game and because some folk feel they have no power over such thing resolve around insult or mockery.Ah the human mind quite complicated.It's not only bioware getting the medecine .. That everyone.
Same reason a lot of people create thread that have been discussed one hundred time.They want the attention.
I should create my thread now and complain about hackn'slash.
They want to be heard.
So they end up with insult and trolling and they might(with a big 'M') feel better inside. Because they feel like they have more control .
Bioware create a game and because some folk feel they have no power over such thing resolve around insult or mockery.Ah the human mind quite complicated.It's not only bioware getting the medecine .. That everyone.
Same reason a lot of people create thread that have been discussed one hundred time.They want the attention.
I should create my thread now and complain about hackn'slash.
Modifié par Suprez30, 21 octobre 2010 - 02:39 .
#118
Guest_----9-----_*
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 02:47
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Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
I mean, it's their work of art. When someone insults what you put countless hours into completing, it's typical to get very offended. Sometimes, your feelings even get hurt. So when they see a bunch of people saying stuff like "this sucks" , "the game developers were being lazy when they did X", "WoW is way better than this crap", or "I could make a better game than this", does a part of them die on the inside? Or what about the comments made on this board in regards to countless complaints which have already been made about Dragon Age 2?
Game designers are also a rarity; most other industries don't host a forum where they can end up as targets in a verbal shooting gallery. In fact, most industries don't allow any feedback, particularly negative feedback (i.e. various levels of government). It's almost impossible to contact people at the design level - you'll never find out who designed your (crappy) stove, or a city planner that put in a (stupid) street. I suspect a lot corporations shifted over to automated voice answering as a means of avoidingdirect contact - you talk to a service representative, often a contract employer not someone directly employed with the company. To get one of those, you usually have to write a very good letter to the president to reach someone high enough to take some form of action and do something about your problem.
Unlike a lot of management types, creative people can't afford to shut themselves off from any possible source of productivity - they have to be connected in some way. And for an undertaking like a game, they have to be organized enough to be collectively productive - the antithesis of a bureaucracy.
So yes, you're getting a rare 'service' in these forums in a time when many companies that offer a service have forgotten why they're in business. To see so many (uninformed) people make 'demands' instead of politely 'asking' is incredible.
Yes, I've been in a service industry - the people who yell the loudest never apologize the loudest, if in fact they ever apologize.
#119
Guest_slimgrin_*
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 03:01
Guest_slimgrin_*
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----9----- wrote...
In fact, most industries don't allow any feedback, particularly negative feedback
Hence, James Cameron. Or as we all know him around here: the guy who wrote a script 10 times worse than Mass Effect 2.
#120
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 07:23
AmstradHero
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They played it for years before we did. Yes, I'd say their experience is superior. If you can point out how they "failed" in making a game for you (do not make generalisations based on your opinion) and means to fix problems without introducing other problems, then I'm sure they'll (at least try to) take that on board. Developers who don't listen to their fans at all risk losing an audience and going out of business. This is A Bad Thing.Weiser_Cain wrote...
If your position is the devs experience of the game is superior to ours(correct me if I'm wrong)? Then they failed in making a game for us.
Valid? Yes.Weiser_Cain wrote...
"I don't like this" is a valid criticism.
Constructive or useful? Hell no.
It's an opinion, but it is not providing useful criticism that analyses why something is not good or why you don't like it. It's almost completely useless for a developer.
I don't disagree that there can be a forest for the trees issue with some design aspects. But ultimately decisions have to be made at some point. We as gamers might not like them, but people are going to complain more bitterly if mechanics aren't functioning properly compared to a minor cosmetic issue. Helmets can be toggled in Dragon Age, and bowstrings don't add anything except a minor graphical improvement. Would it be nice if bowstrings existed? Yes, but I wouldn't rate it as a priority above things like gameplay and story.Koralis wrote...
Since they've played their games a lot they run the risk of not seeing the forest for the trees. They've been
playing for months and years with helmets and without bowstrings, and don't see what the big deal is. The helmet toggle and the bowstrings should really have been present from Day 1.
Again, it's a trade-off situation. Someone has to make the call on whether something is worth "fixing" or not. Someone had to decide what was less important (not unimportant) and what issues that could not be justifiably fixed. I'll tell you a secret: Every single game has bugs. At some point someone has to draw the line and say "we cannot spend anymore time/money on this game" and it gets released.Koralis wrote...
In general it means that nothing will be done. There are many things that Bioware could fix, but because of the testing involved, basically won't.AmstradHero wrote...
If a dev says "we'll think about", that means they've taken your ideas on board. You've (probably) suggested something that is well considered and that is to be commended.
Doing the "unimportant" things when there's still plenty of time left on the clock is the only way that they'll ever get done.
If you asked 100 people, you would probably get 100 different opinions on where that line should have been for an individual release. And that's ultimately what it comes down to - opinion. And what is both great and annoying about opinions is that they are never wrong.
However, as I stated above, a plain opinion is not useful criticism. As a modder, I love reasoned criticism, but find simple opinion unhelpful. Someone saying "your mod sucks" is not useful. Someone saying "your mod is great" might make me feel good and I'll definitely appreciate someone saying that, but it doesn't help me improve my work.
Modifié par AmstradHero, 21 octobre 2010 - 07:24 .
#121
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 08:05
Waage25
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Yes some of them get really offended.
On the masseffect 2 board some time ago there was post about how the "Sex scenes" in 2 was kind of toned down and boring compared to mass effect 1 and it was asked is this was becaus of outside pressure.
Now this topic turned into a discussion about what was good about the scenes in one vs 2, how much is to much, how little is to little and so on.
Now in the middle of this a developer arrived and he was pissed.
He told us to leave our mothers basement, go out get laid and so on and so fourth and he was ANGRY about it.
It was Hilarious.
On the masseffect 2 board some time ago there was post about how the "Sex scenes" in 2 was kind of toned down and boring compared to mass effect 1 and it was asked is this was becaus of outside pressure.
Now this topic turned into a discussion about what was good about the scenes in one vs 2, how much is to much, how little is to little and so on.
Now in the middle of this a developer arrived and he was pissed.
He told us to leave our mothers basement, go out get laid and so on and so fourth and he was ANGRY about it.
It was Hilarious.
#122
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 08:09
Shadow_broker
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Waage25 wrote...
Yes some of them get really offended.
On the masseffect 2 board some time ago there was post about how the "Sex scenes" in 2 was kind of toned down and boring compared to mass effect 1 and it was asked is this was becaus of outside pressure.
Now this topic turned into a discussion about what was good about the scenes in one vs 2, how much is to much, how little is to little and so on.
Now in the middle of this a developer arrived and he was pissed.
He told us to leave our mothers basement, go out get laid and so on and so fourth and he was ANGRY about it.
It was Hilarious.
NEED A LINK!
Which dev and did he get in trouble?
#123
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 08:30
Bryy_Miller
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Weiser_Cain wrote...
David Gaider wrote...
Weiser_Cain wrote...
And then there's that, forums are always going to be skewed in the favor of dev worship since unless you're a troll once a game disappoints you enough you kind of walk away.
Which is the healthy thing to do, no? Occasionally it does seem to boil down to that guy at the party that feels forced to announce to everyone that he intends to leave because the party, like, totally sucks.
THE MESSAGE: DON'T BE THAT GUY.
So you're saying love it or STFU and get out?
Wesker. I'm honestly concerned that you think what David Gaider described is appropriate - let alone positive - behavior.
#124
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 08:35
Firky
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ChickenDownUnder wrote...
Firky wrote...
I don't really dig the argument that "They wouldn't be in it if they didn't have a thick skin."
Makes perfect sense, actually. One of the more useful lessons you learn in a game design school is how to take a heavy amount of criticism. There is no quietly turning in some artwork, but getting it mounted and posted--with you standing next to it--each week so that not only the teacher, but everyone in the class can critique. And, unless your work is flawless (or even then) you'll receive a fair amount of different people not liking different parts of your work, or so on. Or if your stuff is really bad, the teacher will actually rip it off the wall and throw it in the bin while in front of you.
Games designers go to games design school nowadays? (PS. I'm not saying that games designers aren't highly talented and skilled individuals, just that games design schools are a recent phenomenon, right?)
Also, is that a real life experience of having artwork thrown in the bin in front of you? If classes in games design are deliberately trying to harden students by using that kind of method, then that's made me depressed.
PS. Luckily, your sig is hilarious so I'm happy again.
EDIT: And also, I don't have a problem with students providing feedback on each other's work (I used to get my music/art students to do that all the time. But chucking someone's work in the bin to make a point is, IMO, depressing.)
Modifié par Firky, 21 octobre 2010 - 08:37 .
#125
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 11:09
LIKASOMBODEE
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wow I like how the mods are now just removing our posts instead of ignoring us. hahahah bioware is a joke.
