162 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...
And then there's that, forums are always going to be skewed in the favor of dev worship since unless you're a troll once a game disappoints you enough you kind of walk away.

Which is the healthy thing to do, no? Occasionally it does seem to boil down to that guy at the party that feels forced to announce to everyone that he intends to leave because the party, like, totally sucks.

THE MESSAGE: DON'T BE THAT GUY.

So you're saying love it or STFU and get out?

Wesker. I'm honestly concerned that you think what David Gaider described is appropriate - let alone positive - behavior.

Well I think the point is that you can't make everyone happy. Not Every One. If you are the One who is not happy you could just leave without trying to making everyone else unhappy too. Of course only if you have anywhere to go where you are happier, since if you don't then you're stuck with being in places where you are unhappy.

[Shreav]

OI!  Why wasn't I invited to the party??  Damn you, David.  </3

[Marionetten]

Not nearly as much as the resident fanboys I'd wager.

[Mecha Tengu]

there was a lot of buttrage over boobies a while back

[Leonia]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

there was a lot of buttrage over boobies a while back

What? Can't we use adult language here?

[mopotter]

Anyone in any job gets told something could be done better. The only problem I see is when it becomes personal.



As long as I can remember, BioWare has always said they make the games they would want to play. It's why they started doing games in the first place. The fact that a lot of us also enjoy playing their games is a good thing. And I think the basic premise is still true.



I do think that once in awhile someone may over-react if they are having a bad day. ME1 and 2 love scenes was mentioned, and I think that was an over-reaction because a lot of people who buy their games are happily married and don't live in their parents basement.(though I love Brade Paisley;s video "Online" with Will Shatner, Jason Alexander and a bunch of others about living in the basement) And the scene in ME1 was better, imo.



Even at my most vocal complaint (cough DA Alistair-Witch) I still accept the fact that they did what they did because they liked the way it played out and when it comes down to it, as someone mentioned, they will never please everyone.



And, I think they may find some ideas in all of the clutter that they might want to use in the future. They just have to shift through a lot of stuff to find the gold.

[Lord_Valandil]

Saibh wrote...

When it comes to bashing popular things, I always think of the popular thing like a cousin. An annoying one. You didn't really like your cousin the first few times you met him, but then you parents wanted you to be really great friends so they stuck you in the same room with him all the time and you never have a breather away and he's always annoying the crap out of you. So now you hate that evil little bug.

Similarly, a movie like Avatar is something a lot of people didn't like or didn't understand why it was praised, but since it gets brought up with every other breath, its getting shoved down your throat and resentment rises. I think that's how Hatedom comes to being.

As it is, Avatar was perfectly okay in theatres when I saw it--at least a very beautiful film--but I'm damn sick of hearing about it.

Pretty much this, you're right. At least in the US, I'm sure that you had to endure every freaking day some Avatar advertisement, something that doesn't happens here, in Mexico. Sure, there are TV ads, magazines and all that stuff, but there aren't "Mountain Dew special editions", "McAvatar burgers" or that kind of things...
I liked Avatar, in fact...I loved it. But I'm not a fanatic, I won't tear anyone apart if they didn't like the movie  but really...It gets boring after hearing for the 5000th time "Oh, Avatar had a terrible script, Pocahontas in space, woohoo!", as annoying as the advertisement of the movie can get, the bashing and the hate get boring too.
But that's something the haters will never understand.

slimgrin wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Is that you James?

Why, yes. Pleased to meet you.
Now, really, who wouldn't want to be James Cameron and have all that money?


Edit.
Do you think James Cameron gets offended by complaints about his movie?
I bet every time someone says "Avatar sucks", he kicks a Pandoran Kitten out of the window.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 21 octobre 2010 - 01:09 .

[Shreav]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Edit.
Do you think James Cameron gets offended by complaints about his movie?
I bet every time someone says "Avatar sucks", he kicks a Pandoran Kitten out of the window.

Nobody gets upset about criticism over their movies like Uwe Boll does.

Modifié par iShreav, 21 octobre 2010 - 01:10 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

iShreav wrote...

Nobody gets upset about criticism over their movies like Uwe Boll does.

Upset? The nerve. Guy is lucky he's still breathing.

[Bobad]

iShreav wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Edit.
Do you think James Cameron gets offended by complaints about his movie?
I bet every time someone says "Avatar sucks", he kicks a Pandoran Kitten out of the window.

Nobody gets upset about criticism over their movies like Uwe Boll does.

Well I'm guessing the devs are a bit more mentally stable than that turkey, otherwise we'd be likely to see fencing with Mike Laidlaw or pistols at dawn with David Gaider.

"You think those swords are too big?, get over here and I'll show you how to fight with one"

Modifié par Bobad, 21 octobre 2010 - 01:40 .

[0x30A88]

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Edit.
Do you think James Cameron gets offended by complaints about his movie?
I bet every time someone says "Avatar sucks", he kicks a Pandoran Kitten out of the window.

I wouldn't stand so close to his windows were I you... (seeing as all his creatures are hellishly large compared to their real counterparts)

Anyways, I loved the movie (and were blown away for weeks after I saw it in 2D) and think the haters exaggurate a lot really, isn't there a greay zone between awesome and terrible? They think they speak for everyone... then how can a movie earn 2.8 billion if it was so horrible? And they could clearly have given it a better game than Ubisoft did - the level design was the only thing that was good about it. Take a look at that game next time you think Bioware's release date for DA2 is too far away.

Get back on topic, shall we?

Modifié par Gisle Aune, 21 octobre 2010 - 02:45 .

[Saibh]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

there was a lot of buttrage over boobies a while back

You're still upset about that? I understand this thread is about feelings, but you're a wee sensitive, wouldn't you say?

[n2nw]

Felene wrote...

gamestress wrote...
I also think everyone should work retail at some time in their life. Gave me a new insight and respect for anyone that has to deal with the public.

^This. I can share a few interesting stories but that will take all day. Spend six years working as an customer service manager in retail business can give someone a very realistic view on humanity.

Just about every where you go you will run into this. Hospitals, restaurants, offices.... I vote we all just try to respect each other regardless.

slimgrin wrote...
They kill kittens?

I'm never buying another Bioware game again.

But will you leave the party because of it?
/sorry, couldn't resist.

Lord_Valandil wrote...
What will happen when they run out of kittens?

I believe they have their eyes on some forumites. Their legal department has just about worked out all the bugs.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Anyone who wishes to leave the party but feels too lazy to walk out is free to utilize BioWare's punting services. Also applicable in case you wish to leave but seem to come back in every time you try.

[Bobad]

Saibh wrote...

Bobad wrote...

I didn't even know Saibh was romanceable....

Loyalty mission first, but not before at least four more veal bone gifts.

And tell that tramp Anarya off.

Loyalty missions and gifts?, definitive proof that Dragon Age II IS getting Mass effected.

They were right

EDIT: in a fuax valiant attempt to get back on topic, what in game gifts would be best for each dev?

Modifié par Bobad, 21 octobre 2010 - 03:53 .

[MrCrabby]

David Gaider wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Not so! It's not us who harm the kittens

Who does?

Every time a forumite says something should be simple to do, a kitten gets punted through a plate glass window.

So who's really responsible for that carnage?

I think we all know the answer to that.

You make it harder for me to **** about your design choices when you are such a likeable guy. Please stop.

[Addai]

I appreciate the devs running the gauntlet here. It does add a lot. Personally I can't imagine having my creative efforts put up to that kind of scrutiny, but that's why they get paid the big bucks.

[Stanley Woo]

Off-topic conversation and chatter removed.

[RedRoo]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Offended? Not really. We know more about the flaws in the game than most fans ever will.

There's been a number of times, though, when I've started a forum post with one of:
- "Oh, honey, no."
- "It's adorable that you feel that way."
- "Listen, son, I don't like your tone."
or
- "Damn, you're right. We really are on a mission to ruin everything forever."

... And then closed the browser window, because whatever followed just wouldn't be helpful, productive, or professional. I figure it's worth sacrificing some sarcastic satisfaction to make the forums a nicer place for everyone!

Seb? Hi Seb. That kind of introduction gives you a place in my heart-- a place that rivals the space David Gaider currently inhabits.

<3

[KristofCoulson]

It also gave me an awesome new signature!

[ChickenDownUnder]

Firky wrote...

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

Firky wrote...

I don't really dig the argument that "They wouldn't be in it if they didn't have a thick skin."

Makes perfect sense, actually. One of the more useful lessons you learn in a game design school is how to take a heavy amount of criticism. There is no quietly turning in some artwork, but getting it mounted and posted--with you standing next to it--each week so that not only the teacher, but everyone in the class can critique. And, unless your work is flawless (or even then) you'll receive a fair amount of different people not liking different parts of your work, or so on. Or if your stuff is really bad, the teacher will actually rip it off the wall and throw it in the bin while in front of you.

Games designers go to games design school nowadays? (PS. I'm not saying that games designers aren't highly talented and skilled individuals, just that games design schools are a recent phenomenon, right?)

Also, is that a real life experience of having artwork thrown in the bin in front of you? If classes in games design are deliberately trying to harden students by using that kind of method, then that's made me depressed.

PS. Luckily, your sig is hilarious so I'm happy again.

EDIT: And also, I don't have a problem with students providing feedback on each other's work (I used to get my music/art students to do that all the time. But chucking someone's work in the bin to make a point is, IMO, depressing.)

Private colleges and so on have been offering degrees in Game Design/Art for approximately ten years now, sucn as The Art Institutes and Gnomon Workshop classes. I say approximately since its been a few years since I graduated, and I was certainly not part of the first group to do so. And yes, that is a real life experience, I've seen it happen to others and one time to myself--but looking back, I had pretty much deserved it, I was supposed to create a storyboard for a scene that was to be later animated and I left half of the work at home (no really, i swearz), and since the teacher couldn't grade half of something into the dumpster it went. Was a humbling experience, but it did give me more than enough incentive to never do something like that again. Always doublechecking to make sure I had the proper disk/papers, or if I really got paranoid because of it being a Big Project, triple checking.

There were also the horror stories of a teacher getting fed up with the overall quality of classwork, so failed everybody then and there. But nobody ever admitted to knowing someone who had been part of those classes, so its a bit of a mystery still to me if that ever happened or not. Every three quarters your work was also evaluated to make sure you actually knew you were doing, as well. Just in case you were not one of those students that while got a B in a certain subject, it wasn't because the teacher was just having a really good day or something.

To be clear, I don't regret that kind of treatment at all, though. It hammered into you to not be the guy at meetings who tries to show off ****ty/incomplete/badly presented work. The guy that because of doing so just cost the company thousands of dollars, with everybody else secretly hating you because then they'd have to slow down for your idiot self to catch up.  Or not to get into a rage fit because your boss thought Mary from Accounting had a very valid opinion... at least until he gives up trying to get into her pants. And then you present the old concept work and he likes it again. With the pink version never seeing the light of day again.

So, yes. If some random poster proclaims his great hatred over something without explaining why, shouldn't cause much more than a twinge.

Modifié par ChickenDownUnder, 21 octobre 2010 - 07:54 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

^ I can vouch for all of that. I'm in one of those majors (some of my teachers are in the vids for Gnomon ) and we get our work made fun of, picked apart pixel by pixel, told to scrap it and start from a different direction and so on. If it's not good, there is no point in sugar coating it so a student gets the impression that it is. You don't want polish turds, as they say. Ian McCaig, who did a lot of work for Star Wars, calls it "killing your darlings." You can love a design all you want but if its not objectively good then it isn't worth keeping around. Unless you're constantly critiquing yourself you won't get better. Complacency, in the art world, is basically a death sentence, because as they LOVE to remind us, there will always be someone younger and faster who will do the job for less money.

But as everyone has said, just hearing "this sucks" is not helpful. You need to qualify your criticism.

@Chicken: Evaluated every three quarters? Teachers failing EVERYONE? Sounds like we might go to the same school.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 21 octobre 2010 - 08:44 .

[Gatt9]

As long as I can remember, BioWare has always said they make the games they would want to play. It's why they started doing games in the first place. The fact that a lot of us also enjoy playing their games is a good thing. And I think the basic premise is still true.

The problem is,  they're making the games EA wants them to play.  Honestly,  EA buys the studio and suddenly everything's a shooter,  pretty obvious cause & effect there.

Considering pretty much every month so far this years been a drop compared to last year,  it's not hard to tell where this is all leading. 

As far as people enjoying their games go,  gotta wait and see on that.  I suspect Bioware burned alot of bridges with ME2 and will burn more with DA2,  can't keep passing off shooters as RPGs.

Modifié par Gatt9, 22 octobre 2010 - 08:06 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Gatt9 wrote...

As long as I can remember, BioWare has always said they make the games they would want to play. It's why they started doing games in the first place. The fact that a lot of us also enjoy playing their games is a good thing. And I think the basic premise is still true.

The problem is,  they're making the games EA wants them to play.

And you know this how?

Honestly,  EA buys the studio and suddenly everything's a shooter,  pretty obvious cause & effect there.

Your opinion = / = truth. There's no way to tell exactly what EA is putting their foot on and what it is not.

[AlanC9]

Gatt9 wrote...
The problem is,  they're making the games EA wants them to play.  Honestly,  EA buys the studio and suddenly everything's a shooter,  pretty obvious cause & effect there.

And clearly someone from EA went back in time to make Bio design ME1.