48 réponses à ce sujet

[Count Viceroy]

jlb524 wrote...
It's not like Liara knew from day one of Project Lazarus that Shepard would be OK and would return as the same person. 

Well, no. I'm just saying that there could have some hope in the back of her mind that she would see shep again, and thus might not go through the same amount/severity of mourning as she might/would have done if shep was totally dead, as in liquified or something.

Come to think of it, I'm not entierly sure what relevance this has to anything. Oh well.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 octobre 2010 - 06:26 .

[jlb524]

Count Viceroy wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
It's not like Liara knew from day one of Project Lazarus that Shepard would be OK and would return as the same person. 

Well, no. I'm just saying that there could have some hope in the back of her mind that she would see shep again, and thus might not go through the same amount/severity of mourning as she might/would have done if shep was totally dead, as in liquified or something.

Oh, I'm sure she had desperate moments where she sat and hoped for a miracle in the Lazarus Project.  I believe the pragmatist in her eventually won, though, and she talked herself out of having too much hope.

Sure, a 1% chance of resurrection is better than 0%, but is it worth getting your hopes too high for that?

I don't know, maybe the mourning was more severe, as this nagging hope for a miracle was alway present in her subconscious.   It's hard to quantify that.  If Shepard was dead dead and liquified, she would have mourned, but would have had the certainty that would allow her to eventually move on with peace of mind.  

[ADLegend21]

jlb524 wrote...

Liara doesn't know Shepard is the same...what if Miranda had implanted that control chip?  Or, they just remade her into a different person?  Of course, the control chip didn't happen and Shepard was remade into Shepard 100% (it seems, minus her old ME1 scars) but Liara doesn't know that.

Liara herself has changed, of course.  I don't think it's possible for a person to resist changing somewhat after going through what Liara went through.  I don't necessarily think Liara's change is behind the reason why she was acting distant towards Shepard, though...I think that is caused by the general situation.

And, you are correct that Liara didn't have time for love (and neither did Shepard, really) and they still don't, IMO.  That is why the couple is still apart even though they did reaffirm their love post-LotSB.   Their respective duties to the galaxy are more important.

Also good points, but when Shepard has the option to tell Liara that she's obsessed over the shadow broker (as I remeber) Liara snaps at Shepard about being the same as they were 2 years while everyone else changed (again this is as I remember) and most of Liara not having time for love is because she won't allow it due to her search for the Shadow Broker. but of course after the DLC she has no time becuase of her work as the new shadow broker but everything's been reaffirmed.

[jlb524]

Granted, I don't believe Liara handled the situation of Shepard coming back as best as she could've/should've, looking in hindsight or from a meta-perspective. There needed to be more communication between her and Shepard, but she just clammed up and focused solely on her work, as that seems to be the main way Liara handles stress.

But, this wasn't b/c she was playing a game with Shepard or that she's too 'immature' to handle such things. The whole 'ex lover comes back from the dead' thing is a unique and emotionally trying situation.

ADLegend21 wrote...

Also good points, but when Shepard has
the option to tell Liara that she's obsessed over the shadow broker (as
I remeber) Liara snaps at Shepard about being the same as they were 2
years while everyone else changed (again this is as I remember) and most
of Liara not having time for love is because she won't allow it due to
her search for the Shadow Broker. but of course after the DLC she has no
time becuase of her work as the new shadow broker but everything's been
reaffirmed.

I believe that happens in the second conversation with Liara.  By then, I assume she has realized that Shepard seems to be the same.  But, then in LotSB, she tells Shepard that they are now 'two different people'.  Of course, she didn't mean Shepard was different due to unnatural reasons, like due to whatever the heck Cerberus did during the resurrection process, but that they were both different due to having lived through a really trying time in their lives (with Shepard, this would be the suicide mission).

Anyway, it just seems to me that in both instances, Liara was just trying to push Shepard away as a partner and was simply throwing some excuses out, mainly to satisfy herself.  Of course, she wanted to be with Shepard again, but was fearful of the relationship not being the same or feeling the same after all that happened, and the two dirifting apart eventually b/c of it, and her heart getting broken again.  Also, the fear of losing Shepard again and having to restart the mourning process weighs heavily on Liara.

Modifié par jlb524, 20 octobre 2010 - 06:47 .

[Sesshomaru47]

I asked Liara in the main game about who recovered my corpse. It was my one and only chance to yell at her....ahhh it felt good.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...
I asked Liara in the main game about who recovered my corpse. It was my one and only chance to yell at her....ahhh it felt good.

Why would you yell at her for giving Shepard a second run at kicking the galaxy's ass?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

ReconTeam wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...
I asked Liara in the main game about who recovered my corpse. It was my one and only chance to yell at her....ahhh it felt good.

Why would you yell at her for giving Shepard a second run at kicking the galaxy's ass?

Cuz Cerberus iz evul!

[Zhijn]

I just pretend 2yrs never passed, and Shepard never died. Just MIA being probed by the Illusive Man!.

Silly setup need silly imagination!. xD

[Inquisitor Recon]

Zhijn wrote...

I just pretend 2yrs never passed, and Shepard never died. Just MIA being probed by the Illusive Man!.
Silly setup need silly imagination!. xD

Can't argue with that. They should really have made Shepard badly wounded, in a coma perhaps, but then saved by Cerberus without some sort of crazy plot.

[Sesshomaru47]

ReconTeam wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...
I asked Liara in the main game about who recovered my corpse. It was my one and only chance to yell at her....ahhh it felt good.

Why would you yell at her for giving Shepard a second run at kicking the galaxy's ass?

Well all your friends turn their backs on you or call you a traitor. You're essentially at the mercy of Cerberus an organisation I hate and I'm a zombie-cyborg. I'm scary psycho zomie-cyborg who is mean for no reason or a nice caring zombie-cyborg who likes to hug people every chance she gets. Plus its creepy how she couldn't "let go". Let go of what, there was nothing to grab onto in the first place, someone else was doing the grabbing and now he hates me. Really she should have recovered your body then accidently cremated you. But then we wouldn't have a game and I couldn't explode things with biotics....so I yell at Liara instead.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

Well all your friends turn their backs on you or call you a traitor. You're essentially at the mercy of Cerberus an organisation I hate and I'm a zombie-cyborg. I'm scary psycho zomie-cyborg who is mean for no reason or a nice caring zombie-cyborg who likes to hug people every chance she gets. Plus its creepy how she couldn't "let go". Let go of what, there was nothing to grab onto in the first place, someone else was doing the grabbing and now he hates me. Really she should have recovered your body then accidently cremated you. But then we wouldn't have a game and I couldn't explode things with biotics....so I yell at Liara instead.

Well I guess your Shepard has problems then. But zombie would imply he/she is out eating brains.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

Well all your friends turn their backs on you or call you a traitor. You're essentially at the mercy of Cerberus an organisation I hate and I'm a zombie-cyborg. I'm scary psycho zomie-cyborg who is mean for no reason or a nice caring zombie-cyborg who likes to hug people every chance she gets. Plus its creepy how she couldn't "let go". Let go of what, there was nothing to grab onto in the first place, someone else was doing the grabbing and now he hates me. Really she should have recovered your body then accidently cremated you. But then we wouldn't have a game and I couldn't explode things with biotics....so I yell at Liara instead.

Wow.  I couldn't bring myself to yell at Liara, and my Paragade Sole Survivor FemShep?  Hated Cerberus.  Loathed them.  Spent most of ME2 getting to the point where she could act normally around her crew instead of wanting to stabkill them all the time.  But you don't have to take the "letting go" thing romantically.  My FemShep was like Liara's mentor, her older sister and almost surrogate mom figure.  Yelling at Liara felt like kicking a sad puppy.  Or a kid who's just dropped their ice cream cone.

[Grasser]

Liara's reaction to shepard when they first meet again is expected, shepard died and was nothing more than bits and peiaces when Liara recovered the body, she even said it herself it was a small hope really that shepard could return.
Ash and kaidans respones were normal too, they lost not only their commander but their friend, they mourned shepard's death and moved on, then suddenly their dead commander is standing infront of them working for a terrorist group...
usually when ppl die they stay dead, specially when u get blown off a ship and fall into the amtosphere of a planet, and shepards crew all saw her death.
Then suddenly shes back? listen to the all news reports and everyone u talk to, everyone is surprised and shocked to see shepard alive after that. even Aria had shepard scanned to make sure it's really her.
The Council too is shocked and surprised to see their dead spectre alive and now working for a terrorist group.
Some ppl's reactions differ too, as a new report says, some ppl are happy to see shepard back, others feel betrayed, Garrus and Tali are happy Sheps back. tho they are concerned who shes working for now.

I think ppl playing ME2 did'nt take into account ppl's normal reactions to someone been dead for 2 years suddenly reappearing alive and well. lol.

Modifié par Grasser, 21 octobre 2010 - 12:46 .

[Ryzaki]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

And 

ReconTeam wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...
I asked Liara in the main game about who recovered my corpse. It was my one and only chance to yell at her....ahhh it felt good.

Why would you yell at her for giving Shepard a second run at kicking the galaxy's ass?

Well all your friends turn their backs on you or call you a traitor. You're essentially at the mercy of Cerberus an organisation I hate and I'm a zombie-cyborg. I'm scary psycho zomie-cyborg who is mean for no reason or a nice caring zombie-cyborg who likes to hug people every chance she gets. Plus its creepy how she couldn't "let go". Let go of what, there was nothing to grab onto in the first place, someone else was doing the grabbing and now he hates me. Really she should have recovered your body then accidently cremated you. But then we wouldn't have a game and I couldn't explode things with biotics....so I yell at Liara instead.

I yell at her too. My Shep was finally at peace and all of a sudden he's brought back. Forced to work for Cerberus, most of his old friends are gone, his love interest turned into someone who makes really lame threats, his BFF Kaidan screams that he's a traitor and the council *still* doesn't believe him. His life just sucks.
And all of this happens because she "couldn't let me go." I didn't find that romantic. I found that sad. And before I even hear it yes I've had loved ones die and yes I had to deal with it my own way. 

The fact is Liara goes on and on about how Asari know their lovers are gonna die and cherish the time they have. (Or was that Samara...) her giving Shep to Cerberus is totally at odds with that whole philosophy. My Shep dumped her right then and there. Sure most people were happy to be back to life but he's finally, finally, for the first time in his life really truly happy and that gets wrenched from he. So yeah. He raged. 

So yeah...him passively accepting that kiss was OOC. In my mind Shep dodged the kiss before he started ranting at her. Thanks to her he's now TIM's b****. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 octobre 2010 - 11:22 .

[TcheQ]

Thanks for all your replies! So Liara was troppo on our first meeting as it's the first time she confirmed that the risk she took paid off and Shepard is the same old person, not an emotionless clone, alive and well. After a while she can think straight and has regained some of her professional composure and had time to think things through after. And her actions in my cabin are explainable by her being nervous around me and/or because of the fate of the galaxy, the reapers/the difference in asari and human lifespans, giving me every chance to walk away.

I guess I would have liked an option to distance myself from Liara on our first meeting (turning away/preventing her from kissing me) but i'll accept it for what it is (my initial reading was that kissing me meant her saying "you are still mine")

Still fixing to have a biosuit linked with Tali now -.- (btw my Shepard is female (and i read Tali's files that suggests she's fantasizing about me)). This is complicated

Modifié par TcheQ, 21 octobre 2010 - 07:38 .

[Jonesey2k]

Two years? That's like a weekend for an asari...

[achwas]

JediSoth wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Well said, but it still has to be mentioned that Liara knew about Shepards resurrection before shepard came to Illium. So it's not a complete WTF moment. She gave shepard to cerberus, and would have paid attention to the project, while shepard might not have been in the best shape at times, the chance of seeing shep again was still always present, so he really didn't "die" per say.

I got the impression that when you walked into her office, it was the first time she actually knew for sure that the Lazarus Project worked and, thus, the first time she had proof all her efforts actually amounted to something.

^this
and the fact, that she, for herself, had to find closure to deal with losing shepard. To Shepards, it's only a few weeks (at most) since ordering her into the escape pod on the Normandy SR-1. To her, two years have passed, throughout most of which she had to assume Shepard gone forever, with a rather unlikely chance that Cerberus could change that.
Entirely normal reaction - her life moved on, Shepard's didn't. they have to re-synchronise

[SmokeyPSD]

I added a whole other level ontop of this. Tali was becoming interested in me and I her. She knew this due to her new found position as an information broker. Doh!



So there was jealousy aswell as not sure where the hell she stood with me.

[Jamin101]

So in me1 i choose ashley instead of liara. Just played yesterday and it seemed like liara was teasing shep by sitting on the bed. my question is this i did the dlc before i had any love interest in the second game. Would it have been different if i say had planned for miranda to come by once things are quiet. Also what happens if liara was a love interest in me1

[pf17456]

jlb524 wrote...
Anyway, it just seems to me that in both instances, Liara was just trying to push Shepard away as a partner and was simply throwing some excuses out, mainly to satisfy herself.  Of course, she wanted to be with Shepard again, but was fearful of the relationship not being the same or feeling the same after all that happened, and the two dirifting apart eventually b/c of it, and her heart getting broken again.  Also, the fear of losing Shepard again and having to restart the mourning process weighs heavily on Liara.

I think it took Liara till the end of LotSB to put into words what she was feeling during the 'kiss' on Illium.

Shepard;"I got better'
Liara; " This time but you'll leave again. When the Reapers come you'll dive into the fray"
Liara; " I mourned you for two years so if we're going to try this I need to know you're always coming back"

Liara realizes on Illium during the 'kiss' that should she continue with Shepard she stands a good chance of having to go through the loss all over again. Her words on the Normandy explain this and yet even so, even faced with that possibility she chooses to continue with Shepard. That's love.

[TcheQ]

Jamin101 wrote...

So in me1 i choose ashley instead of liara. Just played yesterday and it seemed like liara was teasing shep by sitting on the bed. my question is this i did the dlc before i had any love interest in the second game. Would it have been different if i say had planned for miranda to come by once things are quiet. Also what happens if liara was a love interest in me1

YOu get smoochie time with Liara (but you gotta really push it), and there are a few other conversation options. One of them leads to Shepard saying "iono, grow old and have a lot of blue children".  That conversation then transposes into the "you'll leave again" part of Liara's dialogue.

I don't think having Liara as a love interest affects the other crew members at all (at least in ME2), and I have heard others say that if they took Liara in ME1, then took someone else in ME2, Liara mentions she knows about them (as she would )

[SmokeyPSD]

yeah, though I found it plausible, she is afterall in the information trade now and if you've been in a relationship with someone, let alone someone who hasn't been resurrected perhaps you can't help but keep tabs.

[TomN7]

I was pissed when Liara gave Shepard to Cerberus as well. I yelled at her when she told me the story and I also refused to have her come aboard the Normandy. And I hated her for giving Shepard to Cerberus.

I mean seriously. She could not believe Cerberus wants Shepard back in human hands. I know how RUTHLESS Cerberus is. They would sacrifice 500,000 human lives to make sure humanity is the most powerful species in the galaxy.

The only reason TIM wanted Shepard back was because he believed Shepard was "the key" into making humanity a better species than every other alien species.

If I was Shepard - I would rather die than betray the ones I love. I don't care if others disagree with this. But that is one thing I have: honor. And I would keep my honor for my friends, family, and what I believe in.

On the Horizon mission - couldn't blame Kaidan/Ashley for acting like jerks to Shepard. Couldn't blame them for accusing me of treason. And I couldn't blame them for not trusting me (due to the "alliance" with Cerberus).