Yes, I wish there was an option to capture a few Collector babies alive and send them to a Cerberus sponsored orphanage.
Genocide
Débuté par
TelexFerra
, oct. 20 2010 06:40
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#27
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:05
Whatever42
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Even if they weren't clones, even if they did have children at their military base of operations - they were a remorseless threat holding human prisoners. Blockading doesn't save the lives of those they took. And it leaves an enemy at your back, that the Reapers could easily bring back into play. Extermination is the only option.
These kinds of ethics are a luxury only possible when survival is not at stake. They are a storybook contrivance debated by ivory tower philosophers only when its first made safe by more realistic people.
These kinds of ethics are a luxury only possible when survival is not at stake. They are a storybook contrivance debated by ivory tower philosophers only when its first made safe by more realistic people.
#28
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:16
Sundance31us
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If it bothers you so much don't play the game.TelexFerra wrote...
Was it really necessary for Shepard and company to destroy the entire collector species? We are told that the space station is their homeworld, which means that every collector is on there. Their scientists, their ship builders, their CHILDREN must therefore also be there. (Or on that ship)
Was it necessary for them all to die simply because they were indoctrinated? Granted, Shepard could not have found Harbinger to prevent the continuance* of indoctrination without risking human lives in the Terminus colonies, but were there not less genocidal options?
Why not...
...destroy the Omega-4 relay?
...just destroy what looks to be their one-and-only ship?
...BLOCKADE the Omega-4 relay with some stationary thanix canons (if it cannot eb destroyed)
Was genocide really necessary?
*We know one can begin to recover from indoctrination, evidenced by Shepard being able to convicne Saren to kill himself at the end of ME1.
#29
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:17
Ryzaki
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...Aren't the collector's basically mind slaves to the Reapers? Wouldn't killing them be a favor? They are mutilated nearly beyond recognition at this point.
#30
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:25
TelexFerra
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oh, nevermind
Modifié par TelexFerra, 21 octobre 2010 - 01:26 .
#31
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:28
Onyx Jaguar
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Ryzaki wrote...
...Aren't the collector's basically mind slaves to the Reapers? Wouldn't killing them be a favor? They are mutilated nearly beyond recognition at this point.
Thats just from the perspective of the team who are fighting against them influenced by Mordin's bias
#32
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:33
PauseforEffect
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There is an e-mail Shepard receives after Horizon from one of the colonists. Much of the letter speaks of the difficulties of friends and families missing, but the hardest is the children who have been abducted by the Collectors. Winter clothing not being worn, empty desks at school, the person who wrote Shepard ends the letter begging to help in any way, pleading for anything to be said, anything.
To find out the fate of those children, to know that nothing but a horrifying end awaited them...kinda kills off any pity for the Collectors.
*Boom*
To find out the fate of those children, to know that nothing but a horrifying end awaited them...kinda kills off any pity for the Collectors.
*Boom*
#33
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:35
Ryzaki
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Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
...Aren't the collector's basically mind slaves to the Reapers? Wouldn't killing them be a favor? They are mutilated nearly beyond recognition at this point.
Thats just from the perspective of the team who are fighting against them influenced by Mordin's bias
Oh. Still...I don't know. Still...did we even kill all of the Collector's? Just because it was their base doesn't mean all of them where there when it was blown/radiated to hell.
#34
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:36
Sundance31us
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Yes. If I were joking I would have placed a smiley at the end of my comment. If you don't like a movie you walk out, a book you stop reading, a TV show you switch channels why would a video game be any different?TelexFerra wrote...
Seriously?
#35
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:39
Onyx Jaguar
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You say it like its easy, you see we don't get hardly any games made for us so we have to buy-
wait a minute that sentence sounded stupid, oh yeah thats right its what that one guy kept saying to me
Also I don't believe anywhere that it said the OP said he hated playing ME 2 or whatever
wait a minute that sentence sounded stupid, oh yeah thats right its what that one guy kept saying to me
Also I don't believe anywhere that it said the OP said he hated playing ME 2 or whatever
#36
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:41
Onyx Jaguar
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Ryzaki wrote...
Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
...Aren't the collector's basically mind slaves to the Reapers? Wouldn't killing them be a favor? They are mutilated nearly beyond recognition at this point.
Thats just from the perspective of the team who are fighting against them influenced by Mordin's bias
Oh. Still...I don't know. Still...did we even kill all of the Collector's? Just because it was their base doesn't mean all of them where there when it was blown/radiated to hell.
Depends on how many ships they had. If it was only one I would expect 90+ percent to be wiped out
But I would still believe that most of them would be wiped out and their connection to Harbinger would most likely be lost
#37
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:42
Ryzaki
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Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Depends on how many ships they had. If it was only one I would expect 90+ percent to be wiped out
But I would still believe that most of them would be wiped out and their connection to Harbinger would most likely be lost
Hm...I actually feel sort of bad for the poor things.
/me now feels like a douche for always blowing up the base.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 octobre 2010 - 01:44 .
#38
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:42
TelexFerra
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Sundance31us wrote...
Yes. If I were joking I would have placed a smiley at the end of my comment. If you don't like a movie you walk out, a book you stop reading, a TV show you switch channels why would a video game be any different?TelexFerra wrote...
Seriously?
Did I ever say I disliked the game?
#39
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:43
crooked
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No mercy. I couldn't kill the Rachni Queen, but you can't really compare those. Can't wait to blow that ship up again.
#40
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:53
Sundance31us
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TelexFerra wrote...
Did I ever say I disliked the game?
If you like the game and don't want to commit genocide, then don't go through the relay and destroy the base.
#41
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:54
TelexFerra
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Sundance31us wrote...
If you like the game and don't want to commit genocide, then don't go through the relay and destroy the base.TelexFerra wrote...
Did I ever say I disliked the game?
Did I ever say I didn't want to finish the game? All I did was pose a question.
#42
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:55
Onyx Jaguar
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EDIT@ post that was already responded to, blah this probably doesn't make any sense anyway
That only works for the first Half-Life
That only works for the first Half-Life
Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 21 octobre 2010 - 01:55 .
#43
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:56
JThompson6577
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What this is, is a classic argument called mirroring.
It boils fown to "I'm a reasonable person and I oppose you, therefore you must be a reasonable person."
It would be true if Shepard had gathered a team to make a strike on a Turian Colony that housed a bio-chemical weapons facilty. The Turians are reasonable and Shepard could find rerasonable alternatives.
The Collectors are not reasonable, they are one of two things:
Remnants of a race that was wiped out 50,000 years before hand that have been genetically and cybernetically altered into something like a conduit for Harbinger. Ultimately there is evidence that they've been purposely dumbed down beyond the need for indoctrination. So they are not much more than husks in this case.
In this scenario they are rabid dogs needing to be put down and you've done them a service by killing them all.
OR
They are willing participants in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of humans and untold numbers of aliens over the Centuries. They've either been indoctrinated to the point of believing that the Reapers are gods who must be obeyed or even worse, attemtping to "buy" freedom by creating a new Reaper for Harbinger. They've tortured and experimented on all those colonists and either discarded their corpses or turned them into a paste to be a part of a Reaper.
In this scenerio, the Collectors are unrepentant war criminals, whose centuries of savagry has finally caught up to them in the form of Shepard and his team.
To be honest, I don't know which is worse but either way, it's entirely justified. Even if it's genocide.
It boils fown to "I'm a reasonable person and I oppose you, therefore you must be a reasonable person."
It would be true if Shepard had gathered a team to make a strike on a Turian Colony that housed a bio-chemical weapons facilty. The Turians are reasonable and Shepard could find rerasonable alternatives.
The Collectors are not reasonable, they are one of two things:
Remnants of a race that was wiped out 50,000 years before hand that have been genetically and cybernetically altered into something like a conduit for Harbinger. Ultimately there is evidence that they've been purposely dumbed down beyond the need for indoctrination. So they are not much more than husks in this case.
In this scenario they are rabid dogs needing to be put down and you've done them a service by killing them all.
OR
They are willing participants in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of humans and untold numbers of aliens over the Centuries. They've either been indoctrinated to the point of believing that the Reapers are gods who must be obeyed or even worse, attemtping to "buy" freedom by creating a new Reaper for Harbinger. They've tortured and experimented on all those colonists and either discarded their corpses or turned them into a paste to be a part of a Reaper.
In this scenerio, the Collectors are unrepentant war criminals, whose centuries of savagry has finally caught up to them in the form of Shepard and his team.
To be honest, I don't know which is worse but either way, it's entirely justified. Even if it's genocide.
#44
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 01:59
PARAGON87
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"Genocide" implies a whole people or species was wiped out. Reaper-melded biomechanical servants with no cognizant function does not constitute that definition. The Protheans were already wiped out in a genocide, just now the remnants were morphed and twisted to the Reapers' demands.
It's like if you destroyed all the husks, scions or abominations in the galaxy; It isn't genocide, it's extermination.
It's like if you destroyed all the husks, scions or abominations in the galaxy; It isn't genocide, it's extermination.
Modifié par PARAGON87, 21 octobre 2010 - 02:02 .
#45
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 03:36
ScooterPie88
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Families, chirldren I don't care. They are mass murders. Much like in WW2 if you couldn't destroy the factory you bombed the city and killed its workers. ME is a total war scenario it's either us or them and I have no problem choosing us. And I'm the most Paragon you can be.
Modifié par ScooterPie88, 21 octobre 2010 - 03:36 .
#46
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 03:44
Foolsfolly
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Others have probably said this already, OP....but....
The Collectors have no culture, no reproduction, no identities, nothing. They are merely tools to be used by the Reapers. There weapons hurt them when they fire, or so Mordin says. There's nothing to these things. They just attack, collect, attack, die, clone, attack.
Saving their race is impossible. They exist only to serve and die.
It is a pity but there is no way around it.
The Collectors have no culture, no reproduction, no identities, nothing. They are merely tools to be used by the Reapers. There weapons hurt them when they fire, or so Mordin says. There's nothing to these things. They just attack, collect, attack, die, clone, attack.
Saving their race is impossible. They exist only to serve and die.
It is a pity but there is no way around it.
#47
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 03:48
Dean_the_Young
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I don't know if you're kidding or not, but I think that would have made for a great sequel story basis.Zulu_DFA wrote...
Yes, I wish there was an option to capture a few Collector babies alive and send them to a Cerberus sponsored orphanage.
The Collector General, freed from Harbinger, spent those last seconds ejecting the cloning/breeding pods of the Collector 'children', those not grown and developed enough to have been completed with cybernetics.These pods fly from the base as it explodes.
Most die in the explosion(whichever type), or crash into the debris field. Others die in the wait after. But a few, or just one... is recovered by Cerberus.
TIM has an opportunity on his hands. The last child of the Protheans. One who has not been alive during the Collectors actions, and with the loss of the General is beyond Direct Control. (Or is it?) A potent specimen, packed with Reaper cybernetics but without control... and ripe to be molded into a force for Humanity.
And thus begins the project of Raising a Collector, naturally, a Cerberus baby sitting project with dreams of restarting/restoring the (human-allied, of course) Prothean race with the cypher, the sum totalof Prothean identity and culture, that remains in Shepard's head.
#48
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 03:56
Nightwriter
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There are no Collector children.
There are no Collector plumbers.
There are no Collector teachers.
There are no Collector civilians.
There are no Collectors who are people.
If you are interested in saving the Collectors somehow you arrived 50,000 years too late.
I agree, it is very, very sad, and if they had only left me some still sentient Collectors to talk to the game would've been much better. The lifelessness of the Collectors is a tragedy in more ways than one.
There are no Collector plumbers.
There are no Collector teachers.
There are no Collector civilians.
There are no Collectors who are people.
If you are interested in saving the Collectors somehow you arrived 50,000 years too late.
I agree, it is very, very sad, and if they had only left me some still sentient Collectors to talk to the game would've been much better. The lifelessness of the Collectors is a tragedy in more ways than one.
#49
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 04:13
wizardryforever
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The look on the Collector General's face when Harbinger RELEASES CONTROL is so sad that I almost feel for them. That look seems to say "don't leave me. please don't leave me." That seems to indicate that at least he had some kind of consciousness, though I bet he was dominated by Harbinger for most of his life, and so did not know any better. Their whole race was pretty much under the control of Harbinger DIRECTLY, or indirectly. So I don't feel that sorry for them that I would hesitate killing them, though I would like to take one alive to peacefully study (not dissect).
#50
Posté 21 octobre 2010 - 04:23
AntenDS
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For the people who are giving TelexFerra crap for "not liking the game". Just stick to the topic before this gets out of hand. We don't share his views on the collectors but he shares our enjoyment of the game.
