48 réponses à ce sujet

[Tatinger]

cosgamer wrote...

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...
I will definitely not buy DA2. After Awakening (which has been out since March) BW released _ONE_ patch to adress some, but not many of the remaining issues. Furthermore BW ignores all our queries about the status of patch 1.05 and whether there will be a patch 1.05 or not. I'm not pleased with their DAO and DAA politics in the slightest and guess that all their remaining forces try to work on DA2, which already has a very tight timeframe.

Hook, line and sinker.

Major reasons why I'm not getting it, either.

A whole lot of people feel that, that's for sure.  The lack of proper patching I'm afraid is the EA philosophy having seeped through Bioware.  I'm hoping that if the loss of buyers is great for DA 2 it will make EA realize that quality games and quality support for those games lead to greater profits.  What I'm afraid will happen is EA will see it as a loss venture and abandon it.  What I read on EA Louse's post (http://ealouse.wordp...12/hello-world/) does not bode well for the company to say the least.

That is fantastic (well, you know what  I mean).  It's nice to have the veil of secrecy lifted once and a while to see what's happening on the other side of the curtain.  And it certainly does explain a lot.

Thanks for the link.

Modifié par Tatinger, 26 octobre 2010 - 07:04 .

[Elhanan]

Nothing like anonymous propaganda for basing future purchasing decisions....

[Tatinger]

Elhanan wrote...

Nothing like anonymous propaganda for basing future purchasing decisions....

I don't think you read one of the essential links (two, actually, come to think of it): the one in the side menu entitled "The Truth" (in which there are jumping off links to further follow the story) and Sanya Weathers' Eating Bees blog (all of which confirms the essentials of the story to a greater or lesser degree).  That taken along with some of the comments from company insiders at the bottom of the page add more likelihood to the story being factual rather than farce.  Indeniable proof? No.  But, as we said, it sure would explain a helluva lot.

P. S. And, no, this anonymous rant hasn't influenced my purchasing decisions in the slightest.  See the title of this thread?  That's what has lost me as a DA2 customer.

Modifié par Tatinger, 27 octobre 2010 - 07:43 .

[Elhanan]

Guess I have a higher pain tolerance than I have always believed. The Silverite Mine bug just is not that huge of an issue for me; easily bypassed, and does not break gameplay. I am not a Techie, so the bugs I fear are ones that wipe Hard Drives, halt finishing the game, etc.

And if I cared for searching into the complaints and rantings of the employed game designer, it would not help me one way or another as I am not one, and have no clues as to the world of finance, game design, QA. etc.; just know what I like to see in a finished product.

[edeheusch]

Elhanan wrote...

Guess I have a higher pain tolerance than I have always believed. The Silverite Mine bug just is not that huge of an issue for me; easily bypassed, and does not break gameplay. I am not a Techie, so the bugs I fear are ones that wipe Hard Drives, halt finishing the game, etc.
And if I cared for searching into the complaints and rantings of the employed game designer, it would not help me one way or another as I am not one, and have no clues as to the world of finance, game design, QA. etc.; just know what I like to see in a finished product.

Yes you can bypass the Silverite Mine bug if you know about it before to suffer from it and you have kept a save just before that point. 
If a bug like that happens in a beta version it is normal, if a bug like that happens in the initial released version and is fixed quickly, I am pain tolerant (as QA can miss some important things). However, 7 months have passed since the bug has been reported by many players, the current patch is probably the final patch of DAO (as there won't be additional release for DAO1 and DAO2 will be released soon) and this common gamebreaking bug has not even been acknowledged by the developers!
I don't know yet if I will buy DAO2 but, if there are no additional patch (that fix at least the more frequent gamebreaking bugs), I most probably won't buy it.
Anyway, before to buy it I will wait to see how many people complain about the bugs of DAO2 and how long it will take to bioware to release a patch.     

[Elhanan]

edeheusch wrote...

Yes you can bypass the Silverite Mine bug if you know about it before to suffer from it and you have kept a save just before that point. 

If a bug like that happens in a beta version it is normal, if a bug like that happens in the initial released version and is fixed quickly, I am pain tolerant (as QA can miss some important things). However, 7 months have passed since the bug has been reported by many players, the current patch is probably the final patch of DAO (as there won't be additional release for DAO1 and DAO2 will be released soon) and this common gamebreaking bug has not even been acknowledged by the developers!

I don't know yet if I will buy DAO2 but, if there are no additional patch (that fix at least the more frequent gamebreaking bugs), I most probably won't buy it.

Anyway, before to buy it I will wait to see how many people complain about the bugs of DAO2 and how long it will take to bioware to release a patch.     

Again, the bug is not game-breaking; just strips you of your precious gear. And while this may not have been intended, this occurs so frequently in gaming that I personally design my characters with such a feature in mind (eg; Willpower 30).

But I am not here to convince anyone of purchasing future games. I simply wish to pass along the notion that a common standard of character is how little it may take to get someone upset over an issue.

[Tatinger]

Elhanan wrote...

Guess I have a higher pain tolerance than I have always believed. The Silverite Mine bug just is not that huge of an issue for me; easily bypassed, and does not break gameplay. I am not a Techie, so the bugs I fear are ones that wipe Hard Drives, halt finishing the game, etc.

And if I cared for searching into the complaints and rantings of the employed game designer, it would not help me one way or another as I am not one, and have no clues as to the world of finance, game design, QA. etc.; just know what I like to see in a finished product.

If you haven't read them, then why would you even comment as to the validity of the blog or not?  Nothing like using an uninformed viewpoint for posting inflammatory and sarcastic comments. 

And, yes, you must have a very high pain threshold, indeed.

Modifié par Tatinger, 27 octobre 2010 - 09:06 .

[Elhanan]

Tatinger wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Guess I have a higher pain tolerance than I have always believed. The Silverite Mine bug just is not that huge of an issue for me; easily bypassed, and does not break gameplay. I am not a Techie, so the bugs I fear are ones that wipe Hard Drives, halt finishing the game, etc.

And if I cared for searching into the complaints and rantings of the employed game designer, it would not help me one way or another as I am not one, and have no clues as to the world of finance, game design, QA. etc.; just know what I like to see in a finished product.

If you haven't read them, then why would you even comment as to the validity of the blog or not?  Nothing like using an uninformed viewpoint for posting inflammatory and sarcastic comments. 

And, yes, you must have a very high pain threshold, indeed.

Leaving my quote atop for context, but I did not intend to ref the EA Louse or other bloggers; simply do not care to read posts from other disgruntled employees.

What I was intending is to comment generally on all the whines, complaints, and other like rants seen both here and in life over the smallest of topics. Save this energy for toilet seats being raised or lowered, caps on toothpaste,  the higher price on frozen dinners, etc.

As for my own tolerance, I try and remember to thank God every day that men do not give birth, as a paper cut causes me enough pain to dance in place much like Snoopy. But at least I do not thteaten to leave the sandbox with all my toys over glitches and bugs which are minor, IMO.

Modifié par Elhanan, 27 octobre 2010 - 09:57 .

[Loerwyn]

I find Awakening's problems to stem more from the fact it was developed predominantly whilst Dragon Age wasn't on the shelves, so they had no feedback from Dragon Age to utilise in improving Awakening. The balance is off, the DLC doesn't carry on (Which, IMHO, was inexcusable) and they went back on themselves for no reason. The Orlesian Warden, IMHO, should have been there for those who *cough cough splutter cough* in Origins, as well as being the "default" playthrough.

[Elhanan]

cosgamer wrote...

Bugs are going to exist in any software.  As a software engineer I can promise you that.  The bugs will make it beyond debugging and testing as well as quality control.  However, what the developers or company does in response to those bugs can often be a sign of their attitude towards their customers and their product.  That is the point of posting from EA Louse.  Whether what he writes is true or not I don't know but his words do make sense especially with the other postings and considering what EA Spouse's husband went through there is probably some validity to it either whole or in part.

DA:O, DA:A and DA:DLCs weren't the buggiest games (with the exception of Witch Hunt) I've ever seen but the support they've gotten has been, well, lacking.  And now, just after a year of release they've pretty much been abandoned.  Not good when folks were first promised two years of DLCs and are left wondering what if anything will officially become of their original PC.

When people are paying between $45 and $60 for a game, then between $5 and what $8 for several DLCs, then another $45 for an expansion pack that is a lot of money.  Even if you just bought the original it's still a considerable price if what you're getting is not properly supported.  That will cause people to leave the sandbox.  The sandbox was costly to enter, did not contain what it was supposed to and no one will clean up all of the dog poop.  They spent their money.  If they want to rant or complain, that is their right just as it is to say how good something can be.  The right to do either was purchased when they bought the game.  If people wish to leave or air their gripes they shouldn't be berated for it. 

I know little of EA; think I have only had one or two games prior to DAO. But Bioware has proven to me over nearly a decade that they are among the best in QA.

And I am one that has spent funds to aquire every DLC available. While the DAA patch did take a while to appear, I replayed DAO a few times testing builds waiting for the fix. And as I have mentioned somewhere, once I completed DAA, I no longer believe that the Sigrun personal quest is bugged, or isj ust a minor hiccup. I am in the same sandbox as many; just do not see the need to throw a fit to get attention.

As I have said before elsewhere, while we have the right to opinions, we also have the right to remain silent. The notion that people have the right to rant because of purchasing a product is somewhat askew. Informing the company of problems and issues is fine, and getting such feedback does help define and solve such puzzles. But nobody gains the right to whine, rant, and toss tantrums; a lesson best learned after the age of 2 or 3.

Modifié par Elhanan, 27 octobre 2010 - 03:38 .

[Tatinger]

Elhanan wrote...

Tatinger wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

And if I cared for searching into the complaints and rantings of the employed game designer, it would not help me one way or another as I am not one, and have no clues as to the world of finance, game design, QA. etc.; just know what I like to see in a finished product.

If you haven't read them, then why would you even comment as to the validity of the blog or not?  Nothing like using an uninformed viewpoint for posting inflammatory and sarcastic comments. 

And, yes, you must have a very high pain threshold, indeed.

Leaving my quote atop for context, but I did not intend to ref the EA Louse or other bloggers; simply do not care to read posts from other disgruntled employees.

What I was intending is to comment generally on all the whines, complaints, and other like rants seen both here and in life over the smallest of topics. Save this energy for toilet seats being raised or lowered, caps on toothpaste,  the higher price on frozen dinners, etc.

As for my own tolerance, I try and remember to thank God every day that men do not give birth, as a paper cut causes me enough pain to dance in place much like Snoopy. But at least I do not thteaten to leave the sandbox with all my toys over glitches and bugs which are minor, IMO.

Got it.  But, as you made mention of, if you're not finding fault with the final product that came out (and lack of support, since then) then there's nothing left to be said on that front (that's fighting a losing battle).  Personally, I find the behind-the-scenes statements of developers very telling -- sort of like the canary in the coal mine -- and while it wouldn't necessarily push me to one side or the other in terms of purchasing a product (I let the gaming reviews and feedback from players do that), it would instill a buyer beware mentality and answer a lot of questions that have remained elusive as to why the situation hasn't been resolved.  It's a kind of a pseudo attempt at closure, really.

Elhanan wrote..

As I have said before elsewhere, while we have the right to opinions, we also have the right to remain silent. The notion that people have the right to rant because of purchasing a product is somewhat askew.  Informing the company of problems and issues is fine, and getting such feedback does help define and solve such puzzles. But nobody gains the right to whine, rant, and toss tantrums; a lesson best learned after the age of 2 or 3.

But the problem is, when we remain silent they do nothing.  Attempts to push the matter forward in rational, measured, discussion has met with no response, as well.  Thus we get frustrated and raise our voices hoping that a disgruntled fanbase and potential lack of sales will sway the issue (something, by the way, that was mentioned in the blogs).  Is it entirely fair to blame Bioware for the lack of support that we feel is missing?  No.  But EA has made them the head to attack in this battle. Go ahead, try talking to EA about the problems in the game (not that you would, mind you) and see what they tell you, if they answer you at all: "Go talk to Bioware.  It's their game".  So that's all the people who felt they've thrown good money after bad (Awakenings and the DLCs) are left with: assaulting Bioware with our problems and concerns in the hopes that it somehow trickles uphill to the EA offices and gets rectified somewhere along the way.  Unfortunately, a lot of us feel that this will only occur when the black on DA2 is revealed and, if the bottom line is somehow less than satisfactory, then maybe they'll turn here, looking for answers.

Modifié par Tatinger, 28 octobre 2010 - 01:03 .

[Elhanan]

I believe I may have mistated a point. I do understand that we have the right to complain, and those that believe the product is in need of repair should report it; continuing to do so in a "rational, measured discussion",

But doing so in a whiney, ranting, complaining, and entitled manner is not a method that is likely to gather the kind of attention some crave, and it also turns away some like myself in the community.

You wish to register a complaint? Fine. But continuing to toss verbage like Sux, or insights like greedy, self-serving corporate Darkspawn simply paints such posts with ignorance, and personally I tire of it. Some do so under the guise of Freedom of Speech, but seem to forget that with such a right comes responsibility.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Morroian wrote...

A Golden Dragon wrote...

IIRC, (on PC at least) wasn't this in part caused by the PC using equipment that was character-restricted? If this is so, then the workaround is simpler: un-equip all such items before entering the mines.

I did this and even with the offending items in inventory the bug still occurred.

I experimented with this and found that it was Origins DLC items that caused the bug, in my case anyway. I unequipped all DLC items on mym warden and it ran fine.

I dont think I had any character specific items. i'd have to go back and check.

EDIT oh and they said the coudlnt fix a case where you lockpick your way into the mine before the proper time. nothing about these inventory related causes.

Makes me wonder if they were even aware of the inventory causes.

Modifié par Shinian2, 28 octobre 2010 - 10:11 .

[Koralis]

IIRC, in the patch-to-end-all patches, 1.04, notes Bioware acknowledges this specific bug. They also basically say they CAN'T fix it for technical reasons. B.S., I say. But, perhaps they can't...in which case some sort of notice is called for.

They could, but fixing it would mean updating signifigant code, which would violate their agreements with the console downloaders and/or cost them more money than they're willing to spend to fix the bug.


Any bug CAN be fixed... they just don't think that it's worth it to them.  Damned consoles.

[Aeryus]

ShadPTR wrote...

I'm sorry, they are too busy creating DLC and DAO2 for your money All these companies are nowadays are profit mongers. Quality has taken a backseat. Oh well, they've already lost me as a customer.

Oh God.. not this crap again. 

Every company's goal is to make money.  A company cannot exist without it.  A company can't make money unless they produce quality products (Quality is subjective, of course), therefore I'm sure they do their best to produce quality products in order to make money.  Just because every issue isn't addressed doesn't mean quality has taken a back seat.  It's easy for people to cry and cry on threads about fix this fix that, then cry some more when it doesn't happen.  You think they just choose to ignore you because they really don't care?  If they didn't care, so much of the other fixes and patches and products would never happen - sorry they didn't get to them all.  I can't stand seeing all of these stupid comments about money hungry companies - THAT'S WHY THEY EXIST!  Quit crying on these threads since they've already lost you as a customer.  Are you that bitter?

Edit:  OP, this was not addressed to you.  I understand your frustration at a 7 month old bug. 

Modifié par Aeryus, 06 novembre 2010 - 05:37 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Aeryus wrote...

Oh God.. not this crap again. 

Every company's goal is to make money.  A company cannot exist without it.  A company can't make money unless they produce quality products (Quality is subjective, of course), therefore I'm sure they do their best to produce quality products in order to make money.  Just because every issue isn't addressed doesn't mean quality has taken a back seat.  It's easy for people to cry and cry on threads about fix this fix that, then cry some more when it doesn't happen.  You think they just choose to ignore you because they really don't care?  If they didn't care, so much of the other fixes and patches and products would never happen - sorry they didn't get to them all.  I can't stand seeing all of these stupid comments about money hungry companies - THAT'S WHY THEY EXIST!  Quit crying on these threads since they've already lost you as a customer.  Are you that bitter?

Edit:  OP, this was not addressed to you.  I understand your frustration at a 7 month old bug. 

People who pay for a game have a right to "cry" about big bugs in a game that go unfixed. If a company is responsive to its customers and shows it is trying to address their complaints they will likely keep the customers. If they do not address the complaints of the customers they lose customers.

I used to buy every Bioware game as soon as it was released (or preorder it.) No more. Which also means I will not be buying Dragon Age 2 at all since I'd be missing out on a lot of "extra" content by not pre-ordering the game and I am unwilling to preorder DA2 based on the current situation with DA:O, the expansion, and DLC, as well as my aprehensions about the changes DA2 is making. The commitment to customer service no longer seems to be the rule at Bioware, and yeah, it is probably the fault of EA.

I will still buy most Bioware games, but only after waiting to see what they are like when they come out and make sure important bugs get fixed first. Oh, that is why I have waited to buy the Witch Hunt DLC.

It is inexcusable that major game breaking bugs have not been addressed.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 06 novembre 2010 - 07:05 .

[ladydesire]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Aeryus wrote...

Oh God.. not this crap again. 

Every company's goal is to make money.  A company cannot exist without it.  A company can't make money unless they produce quality products (Quality is subjective, of course), therefore I'm sure they do their best to produce quality products in order to make money.  Just because every issue isn't addressed doesn't mean quality has taken a back seat.  It's easy for people to cry and cry on threads about fix this fix that, then cry some more when it doesn't happen.  You think they just choose to ignore you because they really don't care?  If they didn't care, so much of the other fixes and patches and products would never happen - sorry they didn't get to them all.  I can't stand seeing all of these stupid comments about money hungry companies - THAT'S WHY THEY EXIST!  Quit crying on these threads since they've already lost you as a customer.  Are you that bitter?

Edit:  OP, this was not addressed to you.  I understand your frustration at a 7 month old bug. 

People who pay for a game have a right to "cry" about big bugs in a game that go unfixed. If a company is responsive to its customers and shows it is trying to address their complaints they will likely keep the customers. If they do not address the complaints of the customers they lose customers.

I used to buy every Bioware game as soon as it was released (or preorder it.) No more. Which also means I will not be buying Dragon Age 2 at all since I'd be missing out on a lot of "extra" content by not pre-ordering the game and I am unwilling to preorder DA2 based on the current situation with DA:O, the expansion, and DLC, as well as my aprehensions about the changes DA2 is making. The commitment to customer service no longer seems to be the rule at Bioware, and yeah, it is probably the fault of EA.

I will still buy most Bioware games, but only after waiting to see what they are like when they come out and make sure important bugs get fixed first. Oh, that is why I have waited to buy the Witch Hunt DLC.

It is inexcusable that major game breaking bugs have not been addressed.

Addressed meaning "fixed", right? Blame Microsoft for its stupid patch size limitations, since apparently Bioware isn't fixing it on PC or PS3 since they can't fix it on all three platforms.

[OneMore1968]

Sadly, this appears to be the way of most games on the market today, not just DAO and Awakenings.



I appreciate that there are a multitude of PC hardware/software combinations which ultimately make programming for a PC more difficult than a console. BUT, these companies are making enough profit to ensure that these fixes are made. Sure, there isn't any way to test and elimate all the bugs prior to release. When numerous people start reporting issues however, you do expect that the least BW could do is acknowledge it and schedule fixes with the next patch. This doesn't seem to happen in any game now though.



What does seem to happen with growing regularity is said 'patches' are released and whether they address the issue or not seems irrelevant. Some months down the line we get an announcement that a 'new' version 2 of the game will be released. Call me cynical but surely this is just a ploy to charge the price of a full game, for what will partly (well lets hope so) be a glorified patch.



My total investment for DAO + Awakenings + All DLC's is about £60. Amazon are now doing the Ultimate edition for £17.00. Fantastic. I think this sums up gaming at the moment.

[TRSniper4]

I just got caught in the silverite mine bug today . It sucks that game designers are all about profit these days. Dragon Age still crashes at least once per day for me, and these game breaking (if you get trapped by them, anyway) bugs still exist. At least with the PC version, we can create unofficial patches and such. I'm just worried what will happen if we don't get a world builder for DA2 .

edit: Yes, I do keep multiple saves.  I merely used all of them throughout the course of the mine, not expecting to notice a bug so late in my progress.  

Modifié par TRSniper4, 22 novembre 2010 - 05:55 .