36 réponses à ce sujet

[Kronner]

Gladiador2 wrote...

Yeah, right. +25% Shield Strength (compared to 3%) is very little difference. +11 and +30% weapon/melee damage is little difference as well...yeeah...

Tested 2 times with 2 Vanguards at Hardcore since the beginning of both games. And it makes things waaay easier (maybe even too easy). So yes, I've tested it.

a) +25% shields is nothing, fraction of a second on Insanity, if that.
+Melee damage is the only noticeable bonus, but there already is +25% melee pads part in the game.
c) +11% weapon damage is very small, Miranda herself provides a bigger bonus (+15%), someone in this thread mentioned that the +weapon damage bonuses are calculated from base weapon damage, so in the big picture "+11% damage" is just cosmetic stuff.

So no, Kestrel does not make the game "waaay easier" - at least on Insanity, I can't tell a difference. And I tried a lot of combinations, I think most players have the same experience.

No idea about Hardcore or lower though.

Modifié par Kronner, 22 octobre 2010 - 02:41 .

[Athenau]

c) +11% weapon damage is very small, Miranda herself provides a bigger bonus (+15%), someone in this thread mentioned that the +weapon damage bonuses are calculated from base weapon damage, so in the big picture "+11% damage" is just cosmetic stuff.

I don't think so. From my (limited) testing it seems that weapon damage bonuses (from both skills and armor) operate on your upgraded damage. Ammo powers, on the other hand, use base weapon damage.

[ryoldschool]

Athenau wrote...

c) +11% weapon damage is very small, Miranda herself provides a bigger bonus (+15%), someone in this thread mentioned that the +weapon damage bonuses are calculated from base weapon damage, so in the big picture "+11% damage" is just cosmetic stuff.

I don't think so. From my (limited) testing it seems that weapon damage bonuses (from both skills and armor) operate on your upgraded damage. Ammo powers, on the other hand, use base weapon damage.

It should act like any other upgrade, acting on the base.  I can't find a reference for this though.  The only multiplicative bonus is for the actual weapon modifier ( ie, shotgun 1.5 on shields, which does act on all the weapon upgrades ).

Still 11% is pretty decent ( you have to get Miranda's passive to level 4 to beat this ).  I think that the sheld bonuses are pretty much lost on insanity, which is what he is saying.

The one armor bonus I always use is for the 10% spare ammo ( bought on Omega? ) - it gives you 6 extra rounds on the Mattock if you have it, and a couple of extra shots on the  shotguns.

[Athenau]

It should act like any other upgrade, acting on the base

It doesn't. Cruc1al did some testing and found that x% in weapon upgrades was NOT equivalent to x% from ammo powers (upgrades were more effective) indicating that all the bonuses aren't lumped together additively. Furthermore, when I tested the damage boost from adrenaline rush with 6/6 upgrades and kestrel armor (sans shoulder pads), I got a ~2.13x increase, rather than ~1.6x I would expect if weapon upgrades were simply added in with all the others. However my numbers _were_ consistent with them affecting base damage (i.e a multiplicative boost rather than additive).

[Kronner]

Athenau wrote...

c) +11% weapon damage is very small, Miranda herself provides a bigger bonus (+15%), someone in this thread mentioned that the +weapon damage bonuses are calculated from base weapon damage, so in the big picture "+11% damage" is just cosmetic stuff.

I don't think so. From my (limited) testing it seems that weapon damage bonuses (from both skills and armor) operate on your upgraded damage. Ammo powers, on the other hand, use base weapon damage.

No. All bonuses (passive, armor, Miranda, all research upgrades) are added together first. (confirmed by devs)

Then you multiply weapon base damage by that bonus number. 11% is hardly noticeable.

Ammo bonuses are added into the mix separately.

This was sent to me by Eric ****nan:
Example: (shotgun)
400 base damage * (1 + 0.95 all added bonuses + 0.5 shield/barrier piercing upgrade) * 2.0 melee distance * 1.25 against all defenses

(the 0.95 is: 0.5 from SG bonuses, 0.15 Destroyer, 0.15 Miranda, 0.15 Armor - just an example)


11% from bonuses is basically nothing. Very little difference. I am not saying it is pointless, just that the difference between Kestrel and N7 is not as big as it seems on paper, which is why I said people tend to overrate Kestrel armor saying it makes the game "waaay easier".

Modifié par Kronner, 22 octobre 2010 - 07:47 .

[Cypher0020]

I only had enough to get the firepack... the aegis doesn't look that great nor the equalizer....... idk personal preference I guess

[GuardianAngel470]

I really enjoy the Phalanx. It sounds satisfying, it does a satisfying amount of damage, and headshots are so much more satisfying, especially at range.



You have to feel where the gun is pointed, which makes it fun.

[GuardianAngel470]

It's kind of how I play pool. I don't look through my glasses to see the balls I look over them, so I have to feel where I'm aiming and to draw basic lines for the shots.



It makes kicking my brother and his friend's butts all the more satisfying.

[Athenau]

No. All bonuses (passive, armor, Miranda, all research upgrades) are added together first. (confirmed by devs)

What about active skill bonuses? This doesn't explain why I'm seeing a consistent > 2x damage boost from Heightened AR when I should be seeing much less (if I just added all the bonuses together).

And what about other modifiers (ragdoll, freeze damage).  Are they another multiplier, are they lumped in with the distance multiplier, or are they just another flat bonus like gear/upgrades/passive bonuses?

Modifié par Athenau, 22 octobre 2010 - 10:02 .

[Kronner]

Athenau wrote...

No. All bonuses (passive, armor, Miranda, all research upgrades) are added together first. (confirmed by devs)

What about active skill bonuses? This doesn't explain why I'm seeing a consistent > 2x damage boost from Heightened AR when I should be seeing much less (if I just added all the bonuses together).

I do not know about active skill bonuses (Cloak or ARush). Probably acts as a separate multiplier.

What I do know for sure is that all passive bonuses are added together first.

Modifié par Kronner, 22 octobre 2010 - 10:03 .

[Athenau]

Just answered my own question about environmental modifiers (at least partially). Freezing generates very close to +100% damage boost even with 6 weapon upgrades, +15% from commando, and +11% from Kestrel armor. Ragdoll should be similar.

Clearly they're a multiplier rather than being lumped in with the other passive bonuses. I suspect that all environmental factors (range/freeze/ragdoll/headshot) and active power bonuses are added together under one multiplier, so the final damage formula would look something like:

base * ( 1 + passive bonuses) * (1 + env/active power bonuses) * weapon defense multiplier + ammo power damage.

Modifié par Athenau, 22 octobre 2010 - 10:29 .

[The Spamming Troll]

sometimes i wonder....



why arent you guys the ones play testing ME3??? id actually like to play ME2 with alot of the ideas that float around this forum by random posters.



i mean you guys are bringing maths into a videogame. if thats not enough, i dont know what is.