281 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Also: The Thannix didn't destroy the Cruiser with one shot (not that I saw) it took a couple of blows and Joker's expert handling. (Along with EDI Last I checked Alliance ships didn't have AIs in them). Heck the only reason the Normandy was left alone was because the Collectors thought they were destroyed in the resulting blast between the two ships.

And if the Normandy with its expert plating could be taken out of commission... (granted it was only for a little while but on a battlefield? Or if the Collectors had realized they were there? They'd have been screwed).  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 05:45 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Where does the game say that? Please point me to the codex or anything really that says that.

Please.
The Reapers gave the Collectors their technology. 

And you keep going on about how the Collectors would've stopped the Reapers with reaper technology if they had access to it...which makes no sense considering the Collectors are a brainwashed slave raced BUILT by the Reapers! 

They're not even brainwashed, they were made specifically into what they are by the Reapers.

[Ryzaki]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Where does the game say that? Please point me to the codex or anything really that says that.

Please.
The Reapers gave the Collectors their technology. 

And you keep going on about how the Collectors would've stopped the Reapers with reaper technology if they had access to it...which makes no sense considering the Collectors are a brainwashed slave raced BUILT by the Reapers! 

They're not even brainwashed, they were made specifically into what they are by the Reapers.

Yeah I know. I always found that "Releasing control" point where the poor Collector General turns to look at the explosion so heartbreaking. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

...One Collector ship? http://masseffect.wi.../Collector_Ship

That ship in particular was stalking Shep. Not the only ship they had.

'It can't be coincidence' also neatly fits in with how it can't be coincidence if there is only one cruiser.

Sort of how like it's not a coincidence when all those presents from 'dad' end up being from the same man. Because you only have one. (Ignore divorces/step fathers/deliberately missing the point).

And there is only one.  We're never given rhyme or reason to believe in more, and plenty of things support the implication of one.


It's the only cruiser we ever see or hear mention of.

It's over designed for the missions it takes in the Terminus, and is only fit for one mission (Earth), making it an entirely over-designed piece of **** if it were made with companion ships.

EDI has multiple occasions to find and mention the existence of other Collector Cruisers, especially after two crawls through Collector Computers, and never does.

Once it and the base are destroyed/captured, the Collector threat is established as ended in Retribution.

What

Judging from the teams reactions upon in that CS is that they're threat to earth isn't as negilble as you think. If it was I'm certain there wouldn't have been as much concern in their voices about said CS. 

The teams reactions are rather my original point: I really can't suspend disbelief to credit them, especially in the end considering what it actually took.

That Earth was a target I never deny. That the Collectors would have succeded in the attempt... yes. I will. Not least because it never came to anything.

[Ryzaki]

...You really think the collectors only had one ship? Then what pray tell where those other ships you were afraid of in the Omega 4 Relay? Ghosts?

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Also: The Thannix didn't destroy the Cruiser with one shot (not that I saw) it took a couple of blows and Joker's expert handling. (Along with EDI Last I checked Alliance ships didn't have AIs in them). Heck the only reason the Normandy was left alone was because the Collectors thought they were destroyed in the resulting blast between the two ships.

So?

Earth isn't going to be limited to a single frigate for defense. It's going to have a lot more ships, and likely with more firepower as well. It doesn't need to be as precise (not that the Thannix took more than a barrage to work).

And if the Normandy with its expert plating could be taken out of commission... (granted it was only for a little while but on a battlefield? Or if the Collectors had realized they were there? They'd have been screwed). 

Then the next five Alliance ships are still firing.

Sovereign ran through dreadnaughts and shot through Cruisers and was completely outclassing even the Normandy, and it was brought down by a single fleet. The Collector Cruiser isn't nearly as capable.

[Ryzaki]

Soverign was brought down because you killed him while vulnerable. The ships weren't doing jack squat until Shep beat the mess out of Soverign who possessed Saren. Multitasking is what killed Soverign. 

And it doesn't matter if you have a million people screaming and kicking at a door if the door isn't affected by their attacks. Sheer numbers mean nothing if you can't damage your opponent. (As Soverign proved). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 05:51 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

...You really think the collectors only had one ship? Then what pray tell where those other ships you were afraid of in the Omega 4 Relay? Ghosts?

What other ships are you saying I was afraid of? I have never taken a position that there are more Collector Cruisers: in fact, people insisting that there are without any support are a pet peave.

Their are Occuli drones that could be used as support craft. There are plenty of derilect craft behind the Omega 4. Small ships as well are not impossible (but unlikely, given that the Collector answer to the debris field seems to be the Cruiser's massive rock armor, unfeasible for smaller vessels).


But nothing else has the necessary pod capacity as the cruiser.

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What other ships are you saying I was afraid of? I have never taken a position that there are more Collector Cruisers: in fact, people insisting that there are without any support are a pet peave.

Their are Occuli drones that could be used as support craft. There are plenty of derilect craft behind the Omega 4. Small ships as well are not impossible (but unlikely, given that the Collector answer to the debris field seems to be the Cruiser's massive rock armor, unfeasible for smaller vessels).


But nothing else has the necessary pod capacity as the cruiser.

Right that's why Shep asks EDI can the collector's sense him. Because the only thing they'll have to worry about is drones. <_<  

and you insisting they're not there is equally ridiculous. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 05:55 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Also it would've been very easy for the Collectors to take the Earth. All they need is their two-word ace in the hole.... Seeker Swarms.

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]Ryzaki wrote...


Soverign was brought down because you killed him while vulnerable. The ships weren't doing jack squat until Shep beat the mess out of Soverign who possessed Saren.[quote]And why do you think Sovereign resorted to possessing Saren's corpse to try and get through Shepard?

Because, as Vigil told us, Sovereign alone can't take on the galaxy and the Citadel fleet(s). Vigil already told us that his data file was only a temporary block to Sovereign's ability to open the Relay: if the fleets were truly ineffective, Sovereign could have simply waited them out and summoned the Reapers.

[quote]
And it doesn't matter if you have a million people screaming and kicking at a door if the door isn't affected by their attacks. Sheer numbers mean nothing if you can't damage your opponent. (As Soverign proved). 
[/quote]The Alliance has Collector Cruiser killers as standard armament: the Javelin torpedoes you use if you don't install the Thannix. Those are what every fighter on the fighter carriers use, as well as other frigates.

Nor is the Collector Cruiser implied to be immune from dreadnaught fire either, or impervious to concentrated lesser ship fire.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What other ships are you saying I was afraid of? I have never taken a position that there are more Collector Cruisers: in fact, people insisting that there are without any support are a pet peave.

Their are Occuli drones that could be used as support craft. There are plenty of derilect craft behind the Omega 4. Small ships as well are not impossible (but unlikely, given that the Collector answer to the debris field seems to be the Cruiser's massive rock armor, unfeasible for smaller vessels).


But nothing else has the necessary pod capacity as the cruiser.

Right that's why Shep asks EDI can the collector's sense him. Because the only thing they'll have to worry about is drones. <_<  

and you insisting they're not there is equally ridiculous

You aren't even answering my points now. If you can't avoid changing subjects every time, just leave. You aren't even replying to things I've said. I've never denied Occuli drones.

I'll ask you again: given the list of things I gave you, including the Retribution's confirmation that the Collectors are done,what evidence of more over-capacity cruisers do you have?

[Lumikki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...


Refusing to state any definition of terrorism, however, and repeatedly linking to a wikipedia article which gives many (and as many as anyone wants to edit in) is not making a point for anything but how many of those aspects and definitions don't apply to Cerberus.

It only happens because you keep ignoring and denying Mass Effect lore and wiki definitions what does fit consept what you want. If any person ignores and deny stuff important to case, they can create any reality of consept they want. What makes hole point of argument to be worth of nothing , because like I sayed before, no-one can argue agaist someone who ignores and deny stuff what are relative to case.

You have deny some Mass Effect lore stuff, because you don't like it.
You have ingnored wiki definitions, because you think it's not accuracy enough.

Basicly sayed, you shape the lore and information so that you accept only what fits your own needs, while ignoring and deny anything what does't fit. How can anyone prove anyting to you if you keep denying and ignoring information what doesn't fit you consept.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:01 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Also it would've been very easy for the Collectors to take the Earth. All they need is their two-word ace in the hole.... Seeker Swarms.

What about fleets not on ground to be invaded by the swarms, Gogeta?

[Dean_the_Young]

Lumikki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...


Refusing to state any definition of terrorism, however, and repeatedly linking to a wikipedia article which gives many (and as many as anyone wants to edit in) is not making a point for anything but how many of those aspects and definitions don't apply to Cerberus.

It only hapens because you ignore and deny Mass Effect lore and wiki definitions what does fit consept what you want. If any person ignores and deny stuff, they can create any reality of consept they want. What make hole point of argument to be worth of nothing , because like I sayed before, no-one can argue agaist someone who ignores and deny stuff what are relative to case.

You have deny some Mass Effect lore stuff, because you don't like it.
You have ingnored wiki definitions, because you think it's not accuracy enough.

Basicly sayed, you shape the lore and information so that you accept only what fits your own needs, while ignoring and deny anything what does't fit. How can anyone prove anyting to you if you keep denying and ignoring information what doesn't fit you consept.

The lore is that the Alliance and Citadel call Cerberus terrorists.

Where have I disputed that?

The lore has also never given us examples to mark that label as accurate either.

Where have you disputed that?



The problem with the wiki article is that its definitions don't apply to Cerberus either, and you aren't even pointing to one to use (as you have been asked to).

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:00 .

[Ryzaki]

And even just those Drones were a right threat to deal with.

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What other ships are you saying I was afraid of? I have never taken a position that there are more Collector Cruisers: in fact, people insisting that there are without any support are a pet peave.

Their are Occuli drones that could be used as support craft. There are plenty of derilect craft behind the Omega 4. Small ships as well are not impossible (but unlikely, given that the Collector answer to the debris field seems to be the Cruiser's massive rock armor, unfeasible for smaller vessels).


But nothing else has the necessary pod capacity as the cruiser.

Right that's why Shep asks EDI can the collector's sense him. Because the only thing they'll have to worry about is drones. <_<  

and you insisting they're not there is equally ridiculous

You aren't even answering my points now. If you can't avoid changing subjects every time, just leave. You aren't even replying to things I've said. I've never denied Occuli drones.

I'll ask you again: given the list of things I gave you, including the Retribution's confirmation that the Collectors are done,what evidence of more over-capacity cruisers do you have?

Like you ignored my point about the Collectors not fighting the Reapers and being able to use their technology since...well the Reapers gave them everything they have now? 

Also for your old: No schematics



0:43

Granted its off the CB but since they don't actually use the RT they obviously just leave it lying around. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:03 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

And even just those Drones were a right threat to deal with.

For a single cruiser running through a debris field.

Not a significant number of opposing forces with weapons.

[Lumikki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The problem with the wiki article is that its definitions don't apply to Cerberus either, and you aren't even pointing to one to use (as you have been asked to).

Actually I did, but you ignored that too.

Lumikki wrote ...

Example terrorism can be also ideological differences between System Alliance and Cerberus what cause violent acts.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:05 .

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And even just those Drones were a right threat to deal with.

For a single cruiser running through a debris field.

Not a significant number of opposing forces with weapons.

Yeah. You not get the upgrades and see how well that goes. 

Single Cruiser is one of the better if not best cruiser (and isn't the Normandy compared to a frigate...? Or something similar) available at the current time.

Also Debris field: True that does give you a disadvantage (tis why the found the N2) but those things cut through your shields like butter. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:05 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What other ships are you saying I was afraid of? I have never taken a position that there are more Collector Cruisers: in fact, people insisting that there are without any support are a pet peave.

Their are Occuli drones that could be used as support craft. There are plenty of derilect craft behind the Omega 4. Small ships as well are not impossible (but unlikely, given that the Collector answer to the debris field seems to be the Cruiser's massive rock armor, unfeasible for smaller vessels).


But nothing else has the necessary pod capacity as the cruiser.

Right that's why Shep asks EDI can the collector's sense him. Because the only thing they'll have to worry about is drones. <_<  

and you insisting they're not there is equally ridiculous

You aren't even answering my points now. If you can't avoid changing subjects every time, just leave. You aren't even replying to things I've said. I've never denied Occuli drones.

I'll ask you again: given the list of things I gave you, including the Retribution's confirmation that the Collectors are done,what evidence of more over-capacity cruisers do you have?

Like you ignored my point about the Collectors not fighting the Reapers and being able to use their technology since...well the Reapers gave them everything they have now? 

No one claimed that the Collectors fought the Reapers. You were tilting a windmill that not even Don Quioxte could find.

No one has denied the Collectors can't (as in, possibility) use the Reaper tech. Reasons certainly were given why they didn't (until a point that they couldn't).

Both points certainly were given reply.

[Ryzaki]

...So why say the RT in the CB wouldn't be used by said Collectors when they obviously needed to use it. (To keep Shep from blowing them Sky high).

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And even just those Drones were a right threat to deal with.

For a single cruiser running through a debris field.

Not a significant number of opposing forces with weapons.

Yeah. You not get the upgrades and see how well that goes. 

Occuli destroyed, debris field cleared, Collector Cruiser destroyed.

The upgrades matter in saving your team lives. Not in being able to overcome the opposition. If every ship in the Sol System loses half its crew, the Collectors still fail.

Single Cruiser is one of the better if not best cruiser (and isn't the Normandy compared to a frigate...? Or something similar) available at the current time.

The Normandy is a frigate.

The Collector Cruiser is certainly one of the single best ships in the galaxy at this point... maybe. We don't know how it compares to dreadnaughts, or fighter carriers. We expect it to outdo Human cruisers.

But it isn't indestructable. The means necessary to destroy it are common equipment across the Alliance. It doesn't matter if it can take any other ship in the Alliance 1-on-1, because it won't be.

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What other ships are you saying I was afraid of? I have never taken a position that there are more Collector Cruisers: in fact, people insisting that there are without any support are a pet peave.

Their are Occuli drones that could be used as support craft. There are plenty of derilect craft behind the Omega 4. Small ships as well are not impossible (but unlikely, given that the Collector answer to the debris field seems to be the Cruiser's massive rock armor, unfeasible for smaller vessels).


But nothing else has the necessary pod capacity as the cruiser.

Right that's why Shep asks EDI can the collector's sense him. Because the only thing they'll have to worry about is drones. <_<  

and you insisting they're not there is equally ridiculous

You aren't even answering my points now. If you can't avoid changing subjects every time, just leave. You aren't even replying to things I've said. I've never denied Occuli drones.

I'll ask you again: given the list of things I gave you, including the Retribution's confirmation that the Collectors are done,what evidence of more over-capacity cruisers do you have?

Given what I said what proof do you have that there's only ONE CS? 

What proof do you have that the Collectors are incapable of using Reaper Tech? 

What proof do you have that Earth could stand up to a CS attack? 

Also the Thannix is a TURIAN weapon. How many turians are eager to share their military tech with the alliance. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:11 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

...So why say the RT in the CB wouldn't be used by said Collectors when they obviously needed to use it. (To keep Shep from blowing them Sky high).

Shepard couldn't even reach the Collector Base until the Reaper IFF, at which point it would be too late to change over and upgrade their entire force before Shepard arrived.

Logistics, again. It takes time to transition from one equipment system to another. Simply because you can do something doesn't mean you can do it instantly at any time.