281 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]Lumikki wrote...

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

The problem with the wiki article is that its definitions don't apply to Cerberus either, and you aren't even pointing to one to use (as you have been asked to).
[/quote]Actually I did, but you ignored that too.[/quote]Then I apologize, and humbly ask that you post to your intended definition exactly.
[quote]
[quote]Lumikki wrote ...

Example terrorism can be also ideological differences between System Alliance and Cerberus what cause violent acts.
[/quote]
That doesn't make sense: it seems you are saying that ideological differences is effectively terrorism because it can lead to violent acts. This is clearly a misunderstanding on my part. Would you mind rewording?

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...So why say the RT in the CB wouldn't be used by said Collectors when they obviously needed to use it. (To keep Shep from blowing them Sky high).

Shepard couldn't even reach the Collector Base until the Reaper IFF, at which point it would be too late to change over and upgrade their entire force before Shepard arrived.

Logistics, again. It takes time to transition from one equipment system to another. Simply because you can do something doesn't mean you can do it instantly at any time.

Shep's been attacking them and beating the crap out of them since before the Reaper IFF. They surely realized at some point that they were going to need better guns to kill Shep. (The irony is it seems Shep can take more damage than his Ship can...) 

Then how do we not know said equipment needs certain activation protocals that would only be known by a Reaper? Making it completely useless to a human? 

I mean you don't think they just have Reaper weapon schemantics lying around do you? (Which...makes no sense seeing as Reapers themselves are giant weapons. The only thing I see being in that base are knowledge of how to make a reaper, other abominations and maybe a Reapers structural weaknesses [that said as much as they harp on about being perfection I doubt that's there either].

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:15 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The Reapers aren't new to conquering planets... if they wanted the Collectors to do it... they would've made sure the Collectors were capable.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Given what I said what proof do you have that there's only ONE CS?

The novels confirm that the Collectors we face are the end of the Collector threat, and we only faced or saw one Cruiser ever.

The rest, which I already posted,was corroborating that.

What proof do you have that the Collectors are incapable of using Reaper Tech?

I have never claimed the Collectors are incapableof using Reaper tech. Infact, I've regularly stated that they do, but have made differentiations about the various levels of Reaper tech they ahve available.

What proof do you have that Earth could stand up to a CS attack?

Naturally I can't prove a negative. And I've also repeated that it's a matter of suspension of disbelief, IE not being able to buy into the narrative of the medium, IE I can't accept it would work for any reason but the story says so, IE I can't get over it's a fake story.

Also the Thannix is a TURIAN weapon. How many turians are eager to share their military tech with the alliance. 

The Thannix is a direct copy of Sovereign's main gun. It is Turian in possession, not concept invention.

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It can't be coincidence' also neatly fits in with how it can't be coincidence if there is only one cruiser.

Sort of how like it's not a coincidence when all those presents from 'dad' end up being from the same man. Because you only have one. (Ignore divorces/step fathers/deliberately missing the point).

...Right. Because ships and a character in a RPG are one and the same. Shep is always supposed the same person. It's a game device. I'm pretty sure if there was only one CS the game would've expanded on it being the only known ship of its kind. (And there'd have been a bigger deal out of the Turians defeating it). 

And there is only one.  We're never given rhyme or reason to believe in more, and plenty of things support the implication of one.

Right. Like...what exactly? The fact that one is stalking Shep? ...Note he seems SURPRISED its the same ship. 

It's the only cruiser we ever see or hear mention of.

So...because we only hear and see one...clearly only one exists.

It's over designed for the missions it takes in the Terminus, and is only fit for one mission (Earth), making it an entirely over-designed piece of **** if it were made with companion ships.

Unless of course it could take on Earth on its own rendering the whole "Earth can stop it!" worthless. 

EDI has multiple occasions to find and mention the existence of other Collector Cruisers, especially after two crawls through Collector Computers, and never does.

Why would she need to? When destroying an enemy base do you usually waste resources looking for every single camp?

Once it and the base are destroyed/captured, the Collector threat is established as ended in Retribution.

Right. I don't read the comics (frankly the game should be able to stand on its own.) So until ME3 I don't know that. 

The teams reactions are rather my original point: I really can't suspend disbelief to credit them, especially in the end considering what it actually took.

That Earth was a target I never deny. That the Collectors would have succeded in the attempt... yes. I will. Not least because it never came to anything.

Right because the Reapers haven't been doing this for nearly a million years or anything. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Threads like this make me sad.
People start pontificating about their own point, refusing to acknowledge the opinions of others.
And self-important asses feel they have the right to dismiss anything they don't agree with.
It's a game.
You should play it how you want to play it.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:26 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...So why say the RT in the CB wouldn't be used by said Collectors when they obviously needed to use it. (To keep Shep from blowing them Sky high).

Shepard couldn't even reach the Collector Base until the Reaper IFF, at which point it would be too late to change over and upgrade their entire force before Shepard arrived.[

Logistics, again. It takes time to transition from one equipment system to another. Simply because you can do something doesn't mean you can do it instantly at any time.

Shep's been attacking them and beating the crap out of them since before the Reaper IFF. They surely realized at some point that they were going to need better guns to kill Shep. (The irony is it seems Shep can take more damage than his Ship can...)

The Collectors only fought Shepard three times beforehand: killing Shepard (where he died), Horizon, which was a surprise ambush of sorts on Shepard's part, and the Collector Cruiser trap, which was on their part (and is easily regarded as the most difficult fight in the game).

A history of one total win, one partial loss (they still got half the colony despite the surprise), and one failure (due more to EDI than to Shepard) is not 'beating the crap' out of them, nor is it proof they need to up-tech at all costs.

Then how do we not know said equipment needs certain activation protocals that would only be known by a Reaper? Making it completely useless to a human?

You mean, besides that EDI has been able to use Reaper systems so far?

It doesn't matter, because you can just study the technology as is, even if you can't activate it.

I mean you don't think they just have Reaper weapon schemantics lying around do you? (Which...makes no sense seeing as Reapers themselves are giant weapons. The only thing I see being in that base are knowledge of how to make a reaper, other abominations and maybe a Reapers structural weaknesses [that said as much as they harp on about being perfection I doubt that's there either].

So you reject demonstrated Collector tech capabilities and deliverables in genetic modification, biological warfare, cloning, Collector Weapons, Collector Armor, cyberwarfare, particle weapons, husk creation/alteration/improvement, unblockable FTL communication implants, biotic improvments, and cybernetics?

That's just the Collector-level tech, mind you. Just pretend that baby Reaper and its construction equipment has no value whatsoever, despite the game cast. If you can't accept that either for suspension of disbelief, I'll accept that.

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The novels confirm that the Collectors we face are the end of the Collector threat, and we only faced or saw one Cruiser ever.

So because they all vanish (seeing as their base is destroyed/taken over) there is little point in continuing to collect humans. They're all gone. Huh. I guess the Council's glad to hear that. After all the Reaper vanished too. 

I have never claimed the Collectors are incapableof using Reaper tech. Infact, I've regularly stated that they do, but have made differentiations about the various levels of Reaper tech they ahve available.

So what's This: 

The Collectors were never intended to use the tech themselves. Nor did they ever need its advantage in their tasks: the Collector tech got by just fine. By the time Reaper tech actually would have helped, too late.

You made a differential between the tech the collectors use and the tech the Reapers use. Which is true. Reapers are giant starships and Collectors use guns I'm sure Reapers wouldn't be able to hold. It's all Reaper tech in the end though. If the Reapers wanted the Collectors to use certain weapons that could destroy/take over Earth they would do it. 

Naturally I can't prove a negative. And I've also repeated that it's a matter of suspension of disbelief, IE not being able to buy into the narrative of the medium, IE I can't accept it would work for any reason but the story says so, IE I can't get over it's a fake story.

....Then there according to you is no right or wrong answer to that. You simply don't believe it. Not that it's not possible. 

The Thannix is a direct copy of Sovereign's main gun. It is Turian in possession, not concept invention.

And you think the Turians would've shared that information with humans? As much as Turians and humans seem to dislike each other? You still need the blueprint of the weapon to make it. And Soverign's remains "vanish" (mostly) after the battle. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:35 .

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The Collectors only fought Shepard three times beforehand: killing Shepard (where he died), Horizon, which was a surprise ambush of sorts on Shepard's part, and the Collector Cruiser trap, which was on their part (and is easily regarded as the most difficult fight in the game).

A history of one total win, one partial loss (they still got half the colony despite the surprise), and one failure (due more to EDI than to Shepard) is not 'beating the crap' out of them, nor is it proof they need to up-tech at all costs.

...Even when Shep has already proven themselves by killing a Reaper? They KNEW he was a serious threat. It's why they kill him and go through so much trouble trying to get the body! And now you expect me to believe that they wouldn't pull out all the stops? 

You mean, besides that EDI has been able to use Reaper systems so far?

What systems has she used? She gave us data. She didn't magically form into a reaper weapon. She wasn't in their long enough to get indoctrinated. She isn't a living creature. (can AI be indoctrinated?) 

Also what systems other than overriding their secruity codes to get you the heck out of dodge and going through their information files has she used? 

It doesn't matter, because you can just study the technology as is, even if you can't activate it.

And with the risk of indoctrination that makes the base more of a hazard than a gain. 

So you reject demonstrated Collector tech capabilities and deliverables in genetic modification, biological warfare, cloning, Collector Weapons, Collector Armor, cyberwarfare, particle weapons, husk creation/alteration/improvement, unblockable FTL communication implants, biotic improvments, and cybernetics?

...Are you not the one who differentiated between CT and RT because all that RT the Collectors can use. Which means any "more" advanced weapons in there would've been usable by the Collectors. With the exception of Reaper Baby. Everything in there was usable by Collectors. They were the ones doing everything. That's why they were created. 

That's just the Collector-level tech, mind you. Just pretend that baby Reaper and its construction equipment has no value whatsoever, despite the game cast. If you can't accept that either for suspension of disbelief, I'll accept that.

...And back to the Collector level tech vs. Reaper level tech. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:34 .

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The novels confirm that the Collectors we face are the end of the Collector threat, and we only faced or saw one Cruiser ever.

The rest, which I already posted,was corroborating that.

Then how do you explain the SR-1 crew identifying the ship as 'a collector vessel, unknown hull pattern?' Doesn't that strongly imply that there are known collector hull patterns? Not read that book yet, but how is the end of the threat confirmed? Does a narrator simply announce this or are there simply no more colonial abductions?

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It can't be coincidence' also neatly fits in with how it can't be coincidence if there is only one cruiser.

Sort of how like it's not a coincidence when all those presents from 'dad' end up being from the same man. Because you only have one. (Ignore divorces/step fathers/deliberately missing the point).

...Right. Because ships and a character in a RPG are one and the same. Shep is always supposed the same person. It's a game device. I'm pretty sure if there was only one CS the game would've expanded on it being the only known ship of its kind. (And there'd have been a bigger deal out of the Turians defeating it).

They did make a note about it: about as much as they do any generic plot point. Shepard expresses surprise it could happen to TIM, ruminates that Horizon might have allowed it during the mission, then revealed that it was never truly damaged at all.

That's positively an epic by ME2 standards.

Right. Like...what exactly? The fact that one is stalking Shep? ...Note he seems SURPRISED its the same ship.

Why would he not be surprised if there were only one ship?

It's the only cruiser we ever see or hear mention of.

So...because we only hear and see one...clearly only one exists.

If we hear one, see one, destroy one, and then are told (end game and in novels) that the Collectors are defeated... it requires more evidence to support that there are more.

Unless of course it could take on Earth on its own rendering the whole "Earth can stop it!" worthless. 

Sure.

What it takes to defeat it, though, leaves me in doubt that it could take on Earth: carry out Earth, yes.

Why would she need to?

Why would a star ship want to know about the existence of other enemy giant star ships.

Hm... beats me. I really can't understand why anyone would want to know what the Collectors are capable of doing. What does it matter if the Collectors have one ship or a dozen if you destroy one and then want to think about keeping the base?

When destroying an enemy base do you usually waste resources looking for every single camp?

If the camps rival the size of dreadnaughts, have the power to reduce most ships in the galaxy to ribbons, and are capable of destroying entire colonies with room left over?

Yes. I look for that very, very hard.

Right. I don't read the comics (frankly the game should be able to stand on its own.) So until ME3 I don't know that.

You've been perfectly fine with metagaming instances before. Why not now?

Right because the Reapers haven't been doing this for nearly a million years or anything. 

No, the Reapers haven't been sending the Individual agents into the heart of surviving, aware, Mass-Relay connected galactic super powers still in possession of the Citadel, in hopes of abducting enough people in order to complete a Reaper which can finally go and open the Citadel relay.

[Dean_the_Young]

Moiaussi wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The novels confirm that the Collectors we face are the end of the Collector threat, and we only faced or saw one Cruiser ever.

The rest, which I already posted,was corroborating that.

Then how do you explain the SR-1 crew identifying the ship as 'a collector vessel, unknown hull pattern?' Doesn't that strongly imply that there are known collector hull patterns? Not read that book yet, but how is the end of the threat confirmed? Does a narrator simply announce this or are there simply no more colonial abductions?

The SR-1 crew didn't identify the ship as a collector vessel. They identified it as an unknown vessel.

The narrotor confirms the Collector threat as finished, as I recall.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:37 .

[Ryzaki]

I'm not fine with it because I don't know the context of the novel. For all I know it could be the same thing with the "Ah yes 'Reapers'." Council nonsense. They aren't written from Shep's point of view. (And Shep's the only one who sees most of the things going down).

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The Collectors only fought Shepard three times beforehand: killing Shepard (where he died), Horizon, which was a surprise ambush of sorts on Shepard's part, and the Collector Cruiser trap, which was on their part (and is easily regarded as the most difficult fight in the game).

A history of one total win, one partial loss (they still got half the colony despite the surprise), and one failure (due more to EDI than to Shepard) is not 'beating the crap' out of them, nor is it proof they need to up-tech at all costs.

...Even when Shep has already proven themselves by killing a Reaper? They KNEW he was a serious threat. It's why they kill him and go through so much trouble trying to get the body! And now you expect me to believe that they wouldn't pull out all the stops?

They also killed him once. Why 'pull out all the stops' when you've proven you don't need to, and pulling those stops can hurt your plans?

Simply because you treat Shepard as a god-sue doesn't mean everyone else must.

What systems has she used? She gave us data. She didn't magically form into a reaper weapon. She wasn't in their long enough to get indoctrinated. She isn't a living creature. (can AI be indoctrinated?)

Also what systems other than overriding their secruity codes
to get you the heck out of dodge and going through their information
files has she used?

Collector systems (Reaper tech), Thannix (Reaper tech), herself (made of Reaper tech), Reaper IFF (Reaper tech).

Synthetics can not be indoctrinated.

And with the risk of indoctrination that makes the base more of a hazard than a gain. 

Hazard to what? The galaxy? Conventional indoctrination fields isn't that great or dangerous. It needs special cybernetics and such to create a Grayson, and indoctrination can be sidestepped with mechs and short exposures to get the devices out of the base and to isolated labs.

...Are you not the one who differentiated between CT and RT because all that RT the Collectors can use. Which means any "more" advanced weapons in there would've been usable by the Collectors. With the exception of Reaper Baby. Everything in there was usable by Collectors. They were the ones doing everything. That's why they were created.

I differentiate between Collector Tech and Reaper Tech on a scale of Reaper tech. They're both reaper tech. Some is kept deliberately lower than the other (but is still valauble).

How many times need I repeat I am not contesting the ability of the Collectors to use 'high' Reaper tech?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 23 octobre 2010 - 06:44 .

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

They did make a note about it: about as much as they do any generic plot point. Shepard expresses surprise it could happen to TIM, ruminates that Horizon might have allowed it during the mission, then revealed that it was never truly damaged at all.

That's positively an epic by ME2 standards.

How is the only CS in the Terminus systems a generic plot point? The surprise seemed to come from how handily the CS pounded the Normandy and how well fortified it was. It's more of a "Wow I didn't know the Turians were that strong" than ah "Awesome! They're only cruiser is destroyed! We don't have to worry about more colonists being abducted!"

Right. Like...what exactly? The fact that one is stalking Shep? ...Note he seems SURPRISED its the same ship.

Why would he not be surprised if there were only one ship?

He's surprised the ship is following him around. I took that to mean there was more than one ship but this one just had an obsession with Shep. (I could see this as perhaps being their most well defended ship probably with the most collectors inside it. Which is why they want to catch Shep in it so badly). 

If we hear one, see one, destroy one, and then are told (end game and in novels) that the Collectors are defeated... it requires more evidence to support that there are more.

Alright. I'll give you that. There may have only been one CS. 

Sure.

What it takes to defeat it, though, leaves me in doubt that it could take on Earth: carry out Earth, yes.

Right. There's no right or wrong answer to this. If the Reapers wanted Earth at the point ME is at. They'd take it. 

Why would a star ship want to know about the existence of other enemy giant star ships.

Hm... beats me. I really can't understand why anyone would want to know what the Collectors are capable of doing. What does it matter if the Collectors have one ship or a dozen if you destroy one and then want to think about keeping the base?

True. She could've sniffed them out. I guess the power of the plot forced them all to be at the B when it was blown up/radiated. 

If the camps rival the size of dreadnaughts, have the power to reduce most ships in the galaxy to ribbons, and are capable of destroying entire colonies with room left over?

Yes. I look for that very, very hard.

So...first you say that they can reduce most ships to ribbons...yet they can't take over Earth? 

No, the Reapers haven't been sending the Individual agents into the heart of surviving, aware, Mass-Relay connected galactic super powers still in possession of the Citadel, in hopes of abducting enough people in order to complete a Reaper which can finally go and open the Citadel relay.

...So they made the Collectors around 50 thousand years ago and had them what? Doing the hullahoop? 

The Collector's have been working for the reapers for a while. They were just gathering different things and were less on the radar. Miranda tells you as much at FP. 

I'll give you the Citadel bit though. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 07:24 .

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The SR-1 crew didn't identify the ship as a collector vessel. They identified it as an unknown vessel.

The narrotor confirms the Collector threat as finished, as I recall.

So ME2 was completely self contained and now essentially completely a throw away installment Lovely....

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
They also killed him once. Why 'pull out all the stops' when you've proven you don't need to, and pulling those stops can hurt your plans?

Simply because you treat Shepard as a god-sue doesn't mean everyone else must.

Shep...as written is a god mode sue. Sad. But true. Then again so are 90% of BW protagonists so it's not that surprising. The whole coming back from the dead made it worse. 

And the Reaper's were pretty smart with there whole "get his body!". The obviously suspected he might just not stay dead. 

Collector systems (Reaper tech),  Thannix (Reaper tech), herself (made of Reaper tech), Reaper IFF (Reaper tech).

Synthetics can not be indoctrinated

alright so that doesn't matter. She can use it as much as she likes. But no other ship has AI because they are distrusted. (Thanks to the Quarians and the Geth). Which means they have humans and other species interacting with said tech. (That said I don't think single weapons and the like lead to massive indoctrination. However staying in the CB where they were building a BR has a high risk of doing so). 

Hazard to what? The galaxy? Conventional indoctrination fields isn't that great or dangerous. It needs special cybernetics and such to create a Grayson, and indoctrination can be sidestepped with mechs and short exposures to get the devices out of the base and to isolated labs.

Grayson? Who? It's hazardous to the people working inside the base. The people in the DR didn't even know what was going on. They were turned into husks (...and how did they change into husks...did one person just jump on the spikes or something?) 

Edit: I remember the guy...I think he saw one...which means the husks were on their to begin with. 

...Reapers keep husks inside of them? Why? 

...You know what I'm just going to pretend that was his imagination because that makes no sense. 

How many times need I repeat I am not contesting the ability of the Collectors to use 'high' Reaper tech?

Then there's nothing stopping them from using any advanced reaper tech in the base against Shep. Any tech in there would've been fully developed. It would've had no reason not to be. The Collectors were made to be mindless slaves and would'nt have ever touched it unless instructed. And no one other than the reapers and collectors was supposed to be able to reach said base. All Harbinger had to do was "Assume Direct Control" and force them to start using said technology. 

...Unless of course it's completely incapatible with anything other than a Reaper. Which still makes it useless to humans. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 07:08 .

[Ryzaki]

Moiaussi wrote...
So ME2 was completely self contained and now essentially completely a throw away installment Lovely....

Wait...did I miss something?  

Anyways the whole Earth thing is simple. 

If the Reapers wanted Earth...they'd have it...and there wouldn't be a damn thing anyone could do to stop them. (I'm talking of course at the end of ME2 you might be able to stop one of them (if you're lucky) but earth would get owned. 

...see if the Reapers weren't so arrogant they could've killed everyone by now. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 07:06 .

[Lumikki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Lumikki wrote ...

Example terrorism can be also ideological differences between System Alliance and Cerberus what cause violent acts.

That doesn't make sense: it seems you are saying that ideological differences is effectively terrorism because it can lead to violent acts. This is clearly a misunderstanding on my part. Would you mind rewording?

Okey, here it goes. Some history first..

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human  colonies in Citadel space. Backed by Earth's most powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military, exploratory and economic spearhead. While the Alliance is relatively new to the galactic community, it has already made a name for itself, gaining humans an embassy on the Presidium. The Alliance is governed by a parliament based at Arcturus Station; the station also serves as the Alliance's capital.


Cerberus is the codename for a black ops organization that was part of the Systems Alliance military before going rogue. Cerberus has since evolved into a human-survivalist paramilitary group led by the enigmatic Illusive Man. Cerberus' core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the  galactic community, and that the Alliance is too hamstrung by law and  public opinion to stand up effectively to the Citadel races. Any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are  brutal, but believe history will vindicate them.


Now point here is that System Alliance is presenting all humans behave of earth. Cerberus other hand did not agree the ideology what System Alliance had, so they seperated and created they own organisation. Cerberus ideology doesn't involve co-operation with other species like System Alliance, they want to improve only humans with any cost. This is not supported by System Alliance what is the official presentation of all humans.

Now when Cerberus use humans what aren't part of Cerberus organisation as biological experience and turn them to husk. That is direct bio terrorist attack agaist humans, as all humans are basicly presented by System Alliance. So, because these kind of violence action, System Alliance has not other possibility than call Cerberus as terrorist organisation. This all is comming from they ideological difference how human race should deal the other species situation in universe. Cerberus tries to make humans stronger enough to stand they own, while System Alliance tryes more co-opereative and diplomatic ways as coexisting with other species.

Basicly sayed, if any person(s) behalf of organisation does mass killing of innocent people what ever reason while organisation supports it, it's pretty much allways terrorist act. If some induvidual person for personal reasons does something to some other induvidual or organisation, it can be looked as criminal act. Now those reasons for terrorism for organisation can be political, believes or ideological, doesn't much matter what they are.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 octobre 2010 - 08:41 .

[Ryzaki]

And honestly I find it difficult to believe that in a million years no one race has managed to find out about the Reapers except the Protheans. Or defeat a Reaper except a human. Especially considering they all reach the same pinnacle of technology when the reapers decide to "reap" them.

I might have found this slightly more believeable had the Reapers been slightly late with their planned reaping allowing technology to advance slightly further than they had planned. Either that or people had advanced quicker than they expected. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 octobre 2010 - 07:19 .

[TuringPoint]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Once you've figured that out, maybe you can re-read my post with a clear enough mind to respond to the substance of it.  You don't have to even respond necessarily.

Thanks.  I'd appreciate it.

Bad day today, I take it?

I was going back through the posts that had been made... I just want to say that I was having an unusually good day, and telling you off when you were telling me what to think, without showing contextual understanding of my thinking, made it better.

So thank you.  You are a bright light after all.  That is not meant as a "dis"; it is really quite charming.

In any case, sticking with the subject more or less, I think the collector ship could be a threat to Earth because of the seeker swarm technology.    If the Collector's played their cards right and were tactical in when they struck Earth, they could take a sizable population.  Maybe they could do that a few times, until Earth increased its defenses.  There would be no turret to fire on the Collector ship if not for Shepard and EDI coming there after the attack, and Shepard  having the upgraded armor.  

Then we have to consider a few other things, as well.  Shepard might have been lucky, and been in the right place at the right time for the suicide mission.  It may have been "just one ship" only for the time being, or that ship may be capable of garnering more power with time.  If you remember the power of Sovereign to deflect attacks, and add that to the collector ship, and perhaps over time they would build more, you have a reasonable menace.  Even considering that, it would not be enough for a full frontal assault.

But that's not the Collector threat.  The Collector's adbuct humans with seeker swarms.  With the element of surprise, the one collector vessel could be a problem - with additional defenses and maybe a little bit of back-up, it could conceivably stand up to fire well enough to get in and get out with a lot of people.  

When in some sort of shocked state people will think of any possibility, reasonable or not, to be considered or cast aside.

But there is a reasonable interpretation of the "go after Earth" line also.  The Reapers would certainly want as many specimens as possible, and with some capacity to hold many more than just a single colony in one ship, if confined to those little pods, it would need to go after a denser population, such as Earth - maybe just a larger colony.  

In any case, they don't have the capacity to go after a colony well-defended by a fleet as is.

Modifié par Alocormin, 25 octobre 2010 - 07:06 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...


Refusing to state any definition of terrorism, however, and repeatedly linking to a wikipedia article which gives many (and as many as anyone wants to edit in) is not making a point for anything but how many of those aspects and definitions don't apply to Cerberus.

It only hapens because you ignore and deny Mass Effect lore and wiki definitions what does fit consept what you want. If any person ignores and deny stuff, they can create any reality of consept they want. What make hole point of argument to be worth of nothing , because like I sayed before, no-one can argue agaist someone who ignores and deny stuff what are relative to case.

You have deny some Mass Effect lore stuff, because you don't like it.
You have ingnored wiki definitions, because you think it's not accuracy enough.

Basicly sayed, you shape the lore and information so that you accept only what fits your own needs, while ignoring and deny anything what does't fit. How can anyone prove anyting to you if you keep denying and ignoring information what doesn't fit you consept.

The lore is that the Alliance and Citadel call Cerberus terrorists.

Where have I disputed that?

The lore has also never given us examples to mark that label as accurate either.

Where have you disputed that?



The problem with the wiki article is that its definitions don't apply to Cerberus either, and you aren't even pointing to one to use (as you have been asked to).

The one terrorist act I can think of in relation to Cerberus is the attempt to hijack a ship and steal the antimatter onboard.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 25 octobre 2010 - 07:20 .

[Saremei]

Ryzaki wrote...

And honestly I find it difficult to believe that in a million years no one race has managed to find out about the Reapers except the Protheans. Or defeat a Reaper except a human. Especially considering they all reach the same pinnacle of technology when the reapers decide to "reap" them.

I might have found this slightly more believeable had the Reapers been slightly late with their planned reaping allowing technology to advance slightly further than they had planned. Either that or people had advanced quicker than they expected. 

It was all by chance and is well explained. It all hinged on ilos.  Had ilos not been so utterly top secret as to not have any records of its existence anywhere, then no protheans would have survived the reaping to modify the keepers. And yes, the reapers are over 2k years late.  For example, the Rachni wars were an example of sovereign's influence when the keepers weren't responding.  Saren wasn't the first under sovereign's influence.

[Ryzaki]

Saremei wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And honestly I find it difficult to believe that in a million years no one race has managed to find out about the Reapers except the Protheans. Or defeat a Reaper except a human. Especially considering they all reach the same pinnacle of technology when the reapers decide to "reap" them.

I might have found this slightly more believeable had the Reapers been slightly late with their planned reaping allowing technology to advance slightly further than they had planned. Either that or people had advanced quicker than they expected. 

It was all by chance and is well explained. It all hinged on ilos.  Had ilos not been so utterly top secret as to not have any records of its existence anywhere, then no protheans would have survived the reaping to modify the keepers. And yes, the reapers are over 2k years late.  For example, the Rachni wars were an example of sovereign's influence when the keepers weren't responding.  Saren wasn't the first under sovereign's influence.

Alright. It makes more sense now. 

Poor Poor Protheans.  

Though..an ending where Shep goes "Screw this." finds another uncharted world and decides to live there when the Reapers come would be awesome. You can just see Shep having a really sad or angry look on his her face as he/she looks up at the sky before shaking his/her head and turning and going back inside some sort of built home. The second he/she closes the door it cuts back to Earth and you see the Reapers attack and the collectors dragging people into the pods. 

Well for me anyways. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 octobre 2010 - 08:47 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
The one terrorist act I can think of in relation to Cerberus is the attempt to hijack a ship and steal the antimatter onboard.

If you call failed robbery terrorism, the word has no real meaning.