164 réponses à ce sujet

[Tiax Rules All]

Pseudocognition,



dying from not doing anything is kinda the point for the nightmare gamers. We want to feel like that every battle is intense and needs our input, our strategy. We dont want to feel like the game could play itself and we could sit there and watch out group win everytime. For me at least thats how I have fun with the combat. Otherwise its not groundbreaking graphics or anything. Its SUPPOSED to be the tactics and "thinking like a general fighting like a spartan" that will make it enjoyable.



Honestly though now that I used that quote. I think DAo will be more "thinking like a general, fighting like a spartan" then DA2 will be. Looks like DA2 is more "thinking like a shooter, fighting like a Hack & slasher" but I hope I am proven wrong.

[Dave of Canada]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Looks like DA2 is more "thinking like a shooter, fighting like a Hack & slasher" but I hope I am proven wrong.

Don't see how it if the game is only faster paced. If anything, it'll make you have to think quicker.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

leonia42 wrote...
Sometimes I want to just hear the dialogue and get on with the story instead of going through another freaking thaig full of darkspawn on my way to the Anvil. But I'm just one of those "stop to smell the roses" kinda players that wants to get the most out of everything.

I actually put DA:O aside for a long time (read: until I heard about DA2) because I was frustrated with the difficulty and hadn't made it to the lulzy charming bits yet. So I wimped out and put it on easy mode and had a good time even if it meant I was putting more time into looting and staring at the scenery than making sure every party member does exactly what I want or else I die. Press A for auto attack and then swing the camera around to study the ambient occlusion, that's more my style lol.

Edit to add:
@ Tiax: Gah I can't imagine playing that way. I hope those who do get a more challenging experience though.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:09 .

[Tiax Rules All]

once again, I hope i'm wrong, But its not neccessarily thinking quicker I want. I use the pause and play to full extent (I'm a huge BG fan as you know) Its fighting SMARTER that I like. I want to have to use abilities to win and not just using them to look cool to break up auto attack.

[Sakawatchi]

I have periods when I play on 'casual' for the story and periods when I play on 'difficult' or 'nightmare' for the challenge, and as such I can say that the reason most people probably think games are too easy today is because they are good players, and keep on playing good. How about removing the tank from the party? Or the mage? Try to play the entire game with as many from one class as possible in your party (ok, mages were a cinch, but only rouges, or warriors). Try to beat Flemeth with only dual-wielding rouges. It's pretty difficult...

I might add that the only times I actually go with the "proper" line-up is when I'm playing on hard or difficult mode. When it's casual or easy I can mix my parties randomly thinking something like "oh, I want Zevran now. And Leliana. And maybe I should add Wynne so she and Zevran will discuss her bosom". Then I go to put some darkspawn out of their misery.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Sakawatchi wrote...
And maybe I should add Wynne so she and Zevran will discuss her bosom". Then I go to put some darkspawn out of their misery.

This is totally how I roll.

"Boy could I use some cheering up today, let's see what happens when I put Oghren and Zevran together..."

[Dave of Canada]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

once again, I hope i'm wrong, But its not neccessarily thinking quicker I want. I use the pause and play to full extent (I'm a huge BG fan as you know) Its fighting SMARTER that I like. I want to have to use abilities to win and not just using them to look cool to break up auto attack.

Yeah, was only trying to say that it isn't all hack&slash where you just mash buttons.

[KLUME777]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Looks like DA2 is more "thinking like a shooter, fighting like a Hack & slasher" but I hope I am proven wrong.

Don't see how it if the game is only faster paced. If anything, it'll make you have to think quicker.

Thinking like a shooter is thinking quicker.

Not saying i agree with the whole thing though, i think DA2 will be just like Origins.

[bbfan13]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I understand this and view it as a logical reason for why most modern games are typically very easy, though the hardest difficulty (in my opinion) should not be for the masses. It should be for that niched group that want an extremely difficult challenge. For those who seek difficulty from Origins, they have to play on Nightmare and use self imposed limitations like not using health potions or soloing.

When I was sitting at home reading on the old forums about how Priestly described him playing Nightmare, I was expecting this very brutal game that would require a lot of coordination and min/maxing to defeat. The reality was far from that, where I can create an Arcane Warrior and play the game like I was a hot knife through butter.

Though the other classes are sort of fun to "solo" with.

The game always has a medium / casual difficulty for the masses who wouldn't want this sort of difficulty and just want to sit back and enjoy the game, I often use casual to play the game myself because I don't want to waste time with the sword swinging.

Hey Dave,

I do agree with you here.  The hardest difficutly should always be hard and the Arcane Warrior was way too easy.  I remember the final battle with 75% spirit resistance and Life Giver.  I could go make a sandwich and come back, hit heal and leave again.  That was bad.   
Certainly the other classes were more fun to solo.  My 2H solo was what I felt was a good challenge.  Even with all my knowledge of the game at that point I still died quite a few times as I figured out how to play that class. I'm still trying to work up the courage to run a squishy mage without force field.  I don't know if it could be done as FF & VWB were my keys to victory with my other mage run.

bb

[Fortlowe]

I play on a console. So faster is better for me. Basically I set my party members tactics up then charged in with my rogue and wailed away. I know a lot of players took a more tactical approach to gameplay, and undoubtedly would look down on my cudgel wielding style of play. That's fine. More power to them.

I'm excited to hear about the combat moving more into the realm of a hack n slash, though. That rules to me. That doesn't necessarily mean the game won't be difficult though. Just more visceral. I mean bringing up the power wheel will still be there and the party commands will still be there, but it sounds like now, whenever I hit A, it means somebody is about to bleed. Awesome. Combat isn't how I measure the difficulty of this game anyway. I measure the games difficulty based on how hard it is to achieve a favorable storyline. Ultimately my hacking and slashing or another players tacticts will see them through even the most difficult combat. Getting into that special party members underpants while getting a line on some swanky new loot is always quite challenging, though (much like real life when you think about it).

[Dave of Canada]

KLUME777 wrote...

Thinking like a shooter is thinking quicker.

Not really. All I think in shooters is "GOD DAMN CAMPERS".

Seriously though, I don't really think when I play shooters.

[Tiax Rules All]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Seriously though, I don't really think when I play shooters.

That was my point

[Ortaya Alevli]

Example: I simply pump up Magic attribute for Morrigan and Wynne so they can stand back and nuke the broad daylight out of the enemies.

What if enemy mages began using Mana Clash for a change?

Would I still do the same min/maxing? Or, at least, would I bring a Magic-maxed mage to those particular encounters?

[Demx]

For me, DA is similar to a shooter in the sense that none of the battles made me think. It's more like playing a shooter, then pausing every 15 minutes to make an ethical choice.

[Chibi Elemental]

Obviously cheese or pepperoni is the best pizza topping, cause you know they are almost always present

[Mehow_pwn]

I still stand by my point Demon soul is the hardest rpg game this year and last year and ever on consoles. But not on pc



People who want a challange should buy demon souls

[Ulous]

Mehow_pwn wrote...

I still stand by my point Demon soul is the hardest rpg game this year and last year and ever on consoles. But not on pc

People who want a challange should buy demon souls

I did mention this earlier in the thread as a generalisation, but Demon Souls is the perfect example of a game that is only difficult in the players mind, like any other game the more you play it the easier it gets, to the point you could almost beat it blindfold.

[DMC12]

Mehow_pwn wrote...

I still stand by my point Demon soul is the hardest rpg game this year and last year and ever on consoles. But not on pc

People who want a challange should buy demon souls

It's bloody easy once you play through it enough times and get the right gear though. All you need to do is memorize, spam warding, and use the right weapons/Northern Regalia. Even the tutorial boss is easy for me now. But yeah, it was a challenge and one of the best RPGs gameplay wise, and its atmosphere was fantastic. The only downside is that there's barely any story and the dialogue is terrible.

[Perles75]

When I play a rpg I look for something else than how difficult/easy are the fights.

Of course, unless they go to an extreme (boringly easy and impossibly difficult) and become irritating. I think that none of the Bioware series arrived at this point.



P.S.: DMC12, the "only" downside?!? what kind of rpg is the one which has no story and terrible dialogue?? I'd frankly go for a shooter at that point.

[Ulous]

Maybe to stop some of this ranting about difficlty they could make some of the game online multiplayer, even just some arena based stuff, that is the only true way you are going to get a difficult and forever changing difficulty.

[NoAngel89]

lol thats comforting, sacarism is good to pass the time and make jokes that eases nerves, but too much of it after awhile can feel/seem someone is hiding something. But at this point, who the hell knows. Its not like deviants ever really answer questions anyway. But from there past records, aside from awakening (which shouldn't be really consider it a game) they're track record has been constant with esteem quality, which not too many game companies can say the same. Usually they're a hit and miss. Bioware knows what they're doing, even if they change the game completely (Mass Effect 2 cough cough, buying just pieces of armor as DLC wtf I mean great). Even if DAII is different, I'm sure the game will still prove challenging in different aspects.

[Mehow_pwn]

DMC12 wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

I still stand by my point Demon soul is the hardest rpg game this year and last year and ever on consoles. But not on pc

People who want a challange should buy demon souls

It's bloody easy once you play through it enough times and get the right gear though. All you need to do is memorize, spam warding, and use the right weapons/Northern Regalia. Even the tutorial boss is easy for me now. But yeah, it was a challenge and one of the best RPGs gameplay wise, and its atmosphere was fantastic. The only downside is that there's barely any story and the dialogue is terrible.

Yes but this proves the fact that

Gameplay owns story because seriously.. A game needs a story I agree ,but its a good gameplay before a good story..  

and to be honest I sorta liked some of the story moments like the fact that you were force to die at the start that really impressed me no other game has done this type of ting

And yeah you guys are right it gets easier ,however every time you win the game it gets harder..  I had a really tough time beating the last boss on 1-5 the false king on second playthrought didnt die on him ,but still it took me good 10 mins

[DMC12]

Mehow_pwn wrote...

DMC12 wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

I still stand by my point Demon soul is the hardest rpg game this year and last year and ever on consoles. But not on pc

People who want a challange should buy demon souls

It's bloody easy once you play through it enough times and get the right gear though. All you need to do is memorize, spam warding, and use the right weapons/Northern Regalia. Even the tutorial boss is easy for me now. But yeah, it was a challenge and one of the best RPGs gameplay wise, and its atmosphere was fantastic. The only downside is that there's barely any story and the dialogue is terrible.

Yes but this proves the fact that

Gameplay owns story because seriously.. A game needs a story I agree ,but its a good gameplay before a good story..  

and to be honest I sorta liked some of the story moments like the fact that you were force to die at the start that really impressed me no other game has done this type of ting

And yeah you guys are right it gets easier ,however every time you win the game it gets harder..  I had a really tough time beating the last boss on 1-5 the false king on second playthrought didnt die on him ,but still it took me good 10 mins

Yeah, NG+ was a fun surprise. I'm hoping there will be an NG+ for DA2, complete with the leveled-up enemies.

[DragonRageGT]

I like games offering different levels of difficulty so a player can choose something that suits his/her style and choose to increase the challenge at their will.

But I also like games that will not forget to punish stupidity. Quoting a friend from somewhere else:

"Gothic's challenge is at a slower and more methodical pace; like Chess, it's about long term strategy, as opposed to the reflex- and twitch-based skill of Ninja Gaiden. Gothic doesn't hold your hand; it expects you to figure things out for yourself, so you have to approach the game in a careful and intelligent manner in order to succeed. It's therefore only as difficult as you make it, but that's the same aspect that makes it very rewarding."

I'm a huge fan of Piranha Bytes and their games mechanics. I love the way that their games punish stupidity and reward planning, caution and still some daring to face enemies a few levels before what might be a safe one. No level scaling on enemies. Most complaints I've seen about Gothics and Risen is how "I cannot survive a wild boar at level 2!".

Well, you are not supposed to. It is still doable, for a very skilled player, but even his char will die if it gets hit once. So, people who wants to challenge a Shadowbeast, which requires caution and strategy even at level 20-30, right at their awesome level 6, they are free to do it. They will also pay the price for it. That's why people playing the Gothics and Risen "Hardcore" mode, i.e. without saving the game other than when leaving it and without reloading it in case of death, claims that "it is playing like a man!"

EDIT: Forgot to say. I think it's weird they way DA:O treats some aspects of the game, whichever difficulty you choose. Since Diablo1 and 2, resistance to elemental damage and magic is reduced as you increase the difficulty. Normal 0% at start, Nightmare, -50% at start, Hell -100% at start.

In Dragon Age I was never once punished, in NM, for going zero% resistance and not even using salves to get some. They do some damage but they're really not as lethal as they should be.

Modifié par RageGT, 22 octobre 2010 - 10:33 .

[Wulfram]

DA:O wasn't easy so much as it was poorly balanced