375 réponses à ce sujet

[DPSSOC]

This has been something that's been bothering me since ME1 so I figured I'd get it off my chest while I'm bored.  How do you people do it?  What is it about the Quarians that engenders sympathy cause I've got nothing.  Any sympathy I might feel for their situation is dashed away by the fact it's their own damn fault and, more importantly, they don't realize it.

So, keeping things civil, what makes you sympathize with the Quarians, what quality do they possess that makes them pitiable?

[Arijharn]

I have sympathy for the Quarian's in the sense that I want to see them continue to exist, but I would have to say that I see their continued operations against the Geth to be wrong. Attacking at the start may have been necessary as they saw it, but to me the cat was already out of the bag -- how could they expect the Geth not to fight back?

[Sajuro]

I feel for them that they are having to pay for their fore bearer's mistakes,that said it is the quarian's own damn fault about the geth.

[luk3us]

I felt sorry for them that their own creations turned on them, killed millions of them and evicted them from their home worlds.



But that sympathy is lost by the simple fact that in the hundreds of years following they're only grown weaker and more pathetic. They're too damn proud to simply settle a world, build up their strength and start a new, instead they're in a sort of limbo floating in their ancient fleet which has more or less killed their immune systems.

[Slayer299]

luk3us wrote...

I felt sorry for them that their own creations turned on them, killed millions of them and evicted them from their home worlds.

But that sympathy is lost by the simple fact that in the hundreds of years following they're only grown weaker and more pathetic. They're too damn proud to simply settle a world, build up their strength and start a new, instead they're in a sort of limbo floating in their ancient fleet which has more or less killed their immune systems.

Actually that's not correct Iakus. The Quarians did infact try to start a colony up and shortly thereafter the Council told the Quarians they had 30 days to leave the uninhabitated planet or the Council would bombard the planet from space.

[Slayer299]

DPSSOC wrote...

This has been something that's been bothering me since ME1 so I figured I'd get it off my chest while I'm bored.  How do you people do it?  What is it about the Quarians that engenders sympathy cause I've got nothing.  Any sympathy I might feel for their situation is dashed away by the fact it's their own damn fault and, more importantly, they don't realize it.

So, keeping things civil, what makes you sympathize with the Quarians, what quality do they possess that makes them pitiable?

Actually I don't understand your question. Why is it that if you sympathize with the Quarians, they must have something pitiable about them. 

The Quarians lost their world to their machine creations, the Geth, who killed billions of Quarians during the course of the Morning War. Every Council species has turned their back on them and the Council themselves have threatned to bombard any uninhabited world the Quarians try to settle on.

Meanwhile the Geth have killed/huskified any and everyone who's gotten too close or strayed into the Perseus Veil and they are seen as the 'poor and persecuted' from the Quarians.

[Randy1012]

I synpathize with the quarians because of the way that they're treated by the Council and the rest of the civilized galaxy, but I don't sympathize with their role in starting the Morning War.

[TheBlackBaron]

Shandepared wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

  How do you people do it?

Well they are feeling, thinking organisms just like we are. Like us, they can suffer, they can love, they can want. I feel for them because I can easily picture something similar happen to humanity. Imagine it, our entire civilization destroyed, billions dead. Thousands and thousands of years of history and achievement wiped away. With no allies to support us, we are left homeless and mostly futureless.

Furthermore, I sympathize with the quarians because they are unfairly persecuted. They did nothing wrong when they tried to deactivate the geth. They were acting in self defense. No doubt negligence on the part of a few people allowed the danger to arise in the first place, but to claim that billions of people deserve to die and the survivors (and their children) left homeless is callous. It's barbaric and inumane.

All the more fitting that most of the people in support of said position are the same self-righteous crowd that shames Ashley Williams, Cerberus, and any other human loyalist.

The geth have given me no reason to sympathize with them. They do not suffer, they do not feel. More than that though, the geth are not friendly, they are not useful, they provided nothing of value to the galaxy. When the geth discovered the Reapers did they take steps to stop them, did they even offer the rest of the galaxy a warning? No, they kept silent. Worse yet, the geth made peace with their violent brethren as they set off to make war on organics, unprovoked.

Before that though the geth murdered any peaceful ambassadors who ventured into their space.

The geth are not good guys, they are not friends.

[NanQuan]

Shandepared wrote...

Well they are feeling, thinking organisms just like we are. Like us, they can suffer, they can love, they can want. I feel for them because I can easily picture something similar happen to humanity. Imagine it, our entire civilization destroyed, billions dead. Thousands and thousands of years of history and achievement wiped away. With no allies to support us, we are left homeless and mostly futureless.

Agreed. I find the Quarians to be a future humanity could very likely inhabit.  Their actions sounds very much like something we would do.  Did they make a mistake? Yes, of course. But they continue to pay for the mistakes that their ancestors made. It hardly seems fair. If you can't have pity for the Quarians, then you can't really have pity for mankind either.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I agree with the OP. I've got no sympathy for the Quarians, and I do not care about their situation as it is their problem not mine.

[Pacifien]

I sympathize with the quarians up to a point. See, quarians and I would likely have some tension as I advocate spending resources on founding a new colony and it would appear many would rather have their old one back first. Plus there's this whole antibiotics issue, but maybe I shouldn't blame quarians for the developers having a failed grasp of biological sciences.

But living in squalor, your life dependent on the sturdiness of your metal ship cage, being regarded with suspicion by default -- yes, that type of life sucks.

[MisterDyslexo]

I've little sympathy for them. Mostly because the quarians are an allusion to palestinians, and geth the israelis. I've got sympathy for the Geth, because they're stuck in the same bind as israel-Be the oppressor or the destroyed by those you refuse to oppress.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I have no sympathy for them, but I hate the geth since I hate robot revolutions. So pretty much I hate everybody involved in their little conflict.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 22 octobre 2010 - 05:05 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Ah, all that hate.... I think you hate White Power Bill!



Anyway, all the Quarians we meet are pretty much Mary Sue's (even the guys with the exception of Kal'Reegar). They are honest, modest, altruistic to a point, polite etc... makes them easy to like.

[Razor_Zeng]

Shandepared wrote...
Furthermore, I sympathize with the quarians because they are unfairly persecuted. They did nothing wrong when they tried to deactivate the geth. They were acting in self defense. No doubt negligence on the part of a few people allowed the danger to arise in the first place, but to claim that billions of people deserve to die and the survivors (and their children) left homeless is callous. It's barbaric and inumane.

Self defense to me is protecting yourself and others when you are attacked. Attacking someone / something just because they ask "Do we have souls?" is direct aggression against a living thing. If you asked me if you had a soul and I killed you to kept you from asking again would you think that is justified? I don't.

Do I support the Geth though? Yes and No. They protected themsleves up to a point. They did not hunt down and exterminate the Quarians, however, as you later pointed out they did nothing to help the est of the galaxy when the reapers first appeared. No warning, no help, no bother.

The Geth were the victors in a war they did not want (against the Quarians), but the losers in the war they did want
(against everyone else).

I don't see the agression from both parties (The Quarians wanting to destroy the Geth, The Geth killing anyone that goes near them) stopping soon unless they can sit down and negotiate.

[Jabarai]

Razor_Zeng wrote...

Shandepared wrote...
Furthermore, I sympathize with the quarians because they are unfairly persecuted. They did nothing wrong when they tried to deactivate the geth. They were acting in self defense. No doubt negligence on the part of a few people allowed the danger to arise in the first place, but to claim that billions of people deserve to die and the survivors (and their children) left homeless is callous. It's barbaric and inumane.

Self defense to me is protecting yourself and others when you are attacked. Attacking someone / something just because they ask "Do we have souls?" is direct aggression against a living thing. If you asked me if you had a soul and I killed you to kept you from asking again would you think that is justified? I don't.

The original Geth were malfunctioning computer programs, not a "living thing". The Quarians feared the programs might form self-consciousness and object to being shut down. You create it, you should be able to deactivate it. Unfortunately, the malfunctioning computer programs saw it as their right to retaliate. This is where it went completely pear-shaped.

I don't see the agression from both parties (The Quarians wanting to destroy the Geth, The Geth killing anyone that goes near them) stopping soon unless they can sit down and negotiate.

If all the Geth prove to be as mentally sound as Legion, I don't think they're going to have much problems in the future.

PS: As for the analogue of the Middle East and the Quarian-Geth hostilities, I'm going to say that it's unsuitable to the point of being deceptive.

[wulf3n]

Shandepared wrote...
They do not suffer, they do not feel.

You know this how?

Shandepared wrote...
 the geth are not friendly,

They just wanna be left alone. Is that such a crime?

Shandepared wrote...
 they are not useful, they provided nothing of value to the galaxy. 

And the Quarians do? people bribe the Quarians to get them out of their system lest they strip bare all resources...kinda like sentient locusts.

Shandepared wrote...
When the geth discovered the Reapers did they take steps to stop them, did they even offer the rest of the galaxy a warning?  

According to Legion the geth believe EVERY species has a right to exist, as long as that existence doesn't interfere with theirs. Very picard of them if you ask me.

Shandepared wrote...
No, they kept silent. Worse yet, the geth made peace with their violent brethren as they set off to make war on organics, unprovoked. 

Some geth did, just as some humans constantly try and kill you...doesn't mean the entire species believes the same thing.

Shandepared wrote...
Before that though the geth murdered any peaceful ambassadors who ventured into their space.

Evidence?

Shandepared wrote...
The geth are not good guys, they are not friends.

Of course not, they just created an advanced platform to assist you in stopping the reapers becuase they're evil and hate you.

Modifié par wulf3n, 22 octobre 2010 - 07:24 .

[Jabarai]

Pacifien wrote...

I sympathize with the quarians up to a point. See, quarians and I would likely have some tension as I advocate spending resources on founding a new colony and it would appear many would rather have their old one back first.....

Someone mentioned the Council denied the Quarians of any planet they might've considered for colonisation. Is that true? Mass Effect Wikia didn't help...

I somewhat like the Quarians, in some part due to the fact that they're masters at preserving and maintaining the little they have. It's quite unlike our cultures, who are often inclined to strip the land of all natural resources so as to maintain technological progress and well-being of the select few. And when the resources grow scarce, we'll move on to virgin territories or those of other peoples, effectively reducing their culture or even enslaving them.

I agree with you that they shouldn't try to get back to Rannoch (their homeworld) if they're not prepared to live alongside the friendly Geth.

[wulf3n]

Jabarai wrote...

Razor_Zeng wrote...

Self defense to me is protecting yourself and others when you are attacked. Attacking someone / something just because they ask "Do we have souls?" is direct aggression against a living thing. If you asked me if you had a soul and I killed you to kept you from asking again would you think that is justified? I don't.

The original Geth were malfunctioning computer programs, not a "living thing". The Quarians feared the programs might form self-consciousness and object to being shut down. You create it, you should be able to deactivate it. Unfortunately, the malfunctioning computer programs saw it as their right to retaliate. This is where it went completely pear-shaped.

I think when something starts questioning the nature of its existence it's gone well beyond that of a mere "malfunction", and it's no longer "just deactivating them" now it's genocide. The Quarians may not have "deserved" what they recieved, but there is a sense of poetic justice.

[Pacifien]

Jabarai wrote...
Someone mentioned the Council denied the Quarians of any planet they might've considered for colonisation. Is that true? Mass Effect Wikia didn't help...

They're talking about Ekuna. Discovered by the quarians, they petitioned for the Council for rights to the world but were denied. The Council gave the rights to the elcor who they felt were better suited to Ekuna's high gravity. Which I guess they were, because they number in the millions on the planet now. Which I think is a little weird as far as population growth goes, but whatever.

The Council probably didn't take kindly to the fact that the quarians were already settling on the planet before they were given official rights to it. So possibly denied them rights due to that and partly because the world really was better suited for the elcor.

I don't know why the quarians would ask the Council to recognize the quarians' claim, though, because the Council had kicked them out. The quarians certainly don't need the Council's permission anymore, I'd think.

Since visitors to Ekuna are advised to use mass effect fields to counteract the planet's gravity, I wouldn't pick it as a suitable candidate for colonization by the quarians. That's a bit of a problem with a search for a colony, it seems to take a considerable effort on their front to find one that's suitable and easily defendable from pirates. A failed colony for the quarians would be a disaster. Still, if they threw most of their fleet behind the idea, think they have a better chance at recovery colonizing a new world than trying to reclaim the old.

[TheBlackBaron]

wulf3n wrote...
I think when something starts questioning the nature of its existence it's gone well beyond that of a mere "malfunction", and it's no longer "just deactivating them" now it's genocide. The Quarians may not have "deserved" what they recieved, but there is a sense of poetic justice.

You can't commit genocide against a gorram bundle of software. People on this forum bandy that term around way too much.

I'm not saying the geth had no right to defend themselves, far from it, but it's totally illogical to say the quarians were wrong to try and deactivate the geth.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 22 octobre 2010 - 07:58 .

[wulf3n]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
You can't commit genocide against a gorram bundle of software. People on this forum bandy that term around way too much.

I'm not saying the geth had no right to defend themselves, far from it, but it's totally illogical to say the quarians were wrong to try and deactivate the geth.

Im confused... if the gorram bundle of software has the right to defend itself, how can it not be wrong to de-activate them and remove any semblance of sentience?

Unless your stating that the right to live is earned not just blatantly applied to any form of sentient organism, an intriguing perhaps somewhat controversial philosophy ... but in that situation the Quarians have no rights either, as they pretty much failed to defend themselves.

Modifié par wulf3n, 22 octobre 2010 - 08:32 .

[lovgreno]

They have been forced to pay for their ancestors misstake for generations. So they have been given a rather tragic role in the story. I hope the Geth/Quarian conflict will be solved in some way in ME3, it has the potential to be a interesting story.

[GuardianAngel470]

Pacifien wrote...

Jabarai wrote...
Someone mentioned the Council denied the Quarians of any planet they might've considered for colonisation. Is that true? Mass Effect Wikia didn't help...

They're talking about Ekuna. Discovered by the quarians, they petitioned for the Council for rights to the world but were denied. The Council gave the rights to the elcor who they felt were better suited to Ekuna's high gravity. Which I guess they were, because they number in the millions on the planet now. Which I think is a little weird as far as population growth goes, but whatever.

The Council probably didn't take kindly to the fact that the quarians were already settling on the planet before they were given official rights to it. So possibly denied them rights due to that and partly because the world really was better suited for the elcor.

I don't know why the quarians would ask the Council to recognize the quarians' claim, though, because the Council had kicked them out. The quarians certainly don't need the Council's permission anymore, I'd think.

Since visitors to Ekuna are advised to use mass effect fields to counteract the planet's gravity, I wouldn't pick it as a suitable candidate for colonization by the quarians. That's a bit of a problem with a search for a colony, it seems to take a considerable effort on their front to find one that's suitable and easily defendable from pirates. A failed colony for the quarians would be a disaster. Still, if they threw most of their fleet behind the idea, think they have a better chance at recovery colonizing a new world than trying to reclaim the old.

On Ekuna, the quarians petitioned for the planet colonization rights but they had already landed people on it and started building a colony. The Council saw this as a breach of colonization law and denied their request and ordered that they get off the planet to make room for the Elcor.

It wasn't just the fact that the elcor were better suited, but also that the quarians broke the law. I know its flimsy, but when you already know the galaxy hates you, why risk getting denied by breaking a law?

Also, I sympathize with them up to a point. I personally believe the geth had every right to retaliate to the quarian's unprovoked aggression. I also think that while genocide is a suitable punishment for attempted genocide, the geth went too far in the Morning war. 

I also think that while the quarians haven't changed at all since the morning war and they still don't see where they went wrong when even a human completely new to the whole situation could, they have paid a heavy price for their mistake. 

Plus I just think that both groups were wrong, which makes it easy to sympathize with both of them.