375 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Poor Shand. I don't have the heart to debate with him when he's outnumbered like this.

[Dean_the_Young]

You should join his side for once.



Try not to shiver in too much disgust while you do so, however: that ruins the support.

[Kaiser Shepard]

It's always fun to play devil's advocate once in a while.

[Nightwriter]

I won't add to the dogpile on poor Shand, that's not cool, but I'm not about to start supporting things I strongly disagree with.

[Inverness Moon]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Finally lets look at the idea that the Geth are dangerous, if we are comparing them to us than I'd laugh in your face and tell you that you're a silly person. There's never been a time in human history where we havn't been at war with eachother, killing eavhother on mass for all kinds of different reasons. We've tortured, beaten, raped, and killed eachother for thousands of years and somehow you people can look at the Geth who have gone 300 years without having a war, without ever leaving their space to harm anyone and call them dangerous?!

This is a very good point. The geth have nothing on us when it comes to being dangerous to others and ourselves.

The geth isolated themselves because their first experience with organics was a fight for their existence. Naturally, they're not eager to poke their heads out again until they understand why the quarians tried to wipe them out. Blaming them for being isolationist and not trying to change galactic opinion about them is ridiculous.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 25 octobre 2010 - 02:30 .

[Nightwriter]

I feel as though a dangerous organic gets a different response from people than a dangerous synthetic. People see a dangerous synthetic as a machine that is malfunctioning and must be shut down.

Yet when an organic is dangerous we do not see it the same way.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Nightwriter wrote...
People see a dangerous synthetic as a machine that is malfunctioning and must be shut down.

Thats because it is a machine that is malfunctioning and must be shut down.

[Inverness Moon]

ReconTeam wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
People see a dangerous synthetic as a machine that is malfunctioning and must be shut down.

Thats because it is a machine that is malfunctioning and must be shut down.

Logic like that is no longer applicable when that machine begins asking if it has a soul.

Besides, whether it "must be shut down" is a matter of opinion.

Also, wondering if the geth sentience counts as a malfunction since it was the result of the software working better than the quarians expected rather than because of an error.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 25 octobre 2010 - 03:06 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

That last part depends on who you'd ask, though. There are more than enough who would argue that dangerous organics need to be "shut down" in the same manner as these fictional synthetics.

[Inverness Moon]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

That last part depends on who you'd ask, though. There are more than enough who would argue that dangerous organics need to be "shut down" in the same manner as these fictional synthetics.

Of course, but there is a clear difference here. We only give people the death penalty after they commit certain crimes. Some people want to kill the geth because they believe the geth will resort to some sort of violence, which was clearly not the case in hindsight.

[Nightwriter]

I think it's about people's control issues. Many see synthetics as objects to be controlled, more so than they would an organic.

They will respond differently to an organic they cannot control than they would to a synthetic they cannot control.

Since I see the geth much like I see organics in this regard, I don't see why I should go off and kill them all, anymore than I should an organic race that is potentially dangerous.

[gethspy]

Shandepared wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

  How do you people do it?

Well they are feeling, thinking organisms just like we are. Like us, they can suffer, they can love, they can want. I feel for them because I can easily picture something similar happen to humanity. Imagine it, our entire civilization destroyed, billions dead. Thousands and thousands of years of history and achievement wiped away. With no allies to support us, we are left homeless and mostly futureless.

Furthermore, I sympathize with the quarians because they are unfairly persecuted. They did nothing wrong when they tried to deactivate the geth. They were acting in self defense. No doubt negligence on the part of a few people allowed the danger to arise in the first place, but to claim that billions of people deserve to die and the survivors (and their children) left homeless is callous. It's barbaric and inumane.

All the more fitting that most of the people in support of said position are the same self-righteous crowd that shames Ashley Williams, Cerberus, and any other human loyalist.

The geth have given me no reason to sympathize with them. They do not suffer, they do not feel. More than that though, the geth are not friendly, they are not useful, they provided nothing of value to the galaxy. When the geth discovered the Reapers did they take steps to stop them, did they even offer the rest of the galaxy a warning? No, they kept silent. Worse yet, the geth made peace with their violent brethren as they set off to make war on organics, unprovoked.

Before that though the geth murdered any peaceful ambassadors who ventured into their space.

The geth are not good guys, they are not friends.

On your first point, as much as I understand the reasoning behind the Quarians' attacking the Geth, I simply can't condone the idea of wiping out what is debatably now a species preemptively. That being said, they don't deserve being persecuted and punished for it for 300 years.
On the second point, I don't believe the Geth are in any capacity malicious (Heretics notwithstanding) they are more akin to being neutal stupid  tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidNeutral, and in regards to not warning about the reapers I only need to look at Legion's chest to see why that might be a bad idea

[gethspy]

Shandepared wrote...

wulf3n wrote...
Unless your saying it was her voice then i understand 

Claudia Black is a talented woman.

Inverness Moon wrote...

How did Daro'Xen change your opinion exactly?

She didn't.

Troll alert! :ph34r::ph34r:

[Inquisitor Recon]

God help us all if any of you robot sympathizers are in a position to put down a robot rebellion but refuse to do so.

Thanks for dooming us to be enslaved by the machines, jerks.

[Kaiser Shepard]

I probably would without a second thought, though. As Legion so adequately put it: "The difference is perspective." We only experience the whole geth-quarian conflict in the third person. Likewise, my Shepard would never willingly join Cerberus, while I personally would be much more inclined to actually do so.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 25 octobre 2010 - 04:30 .

[Cheese Elemental]

Nightwriter wrote...

I think it's about people's control issues. Many see synthetics as objects to be controlled, more so than they would an organic.

They will respond differently to an organic they cannot control than they would to a synthetic they cannot control.

Since I see the geth much like I see organics in this regard, I don't see why I should go off and kill them all, anymore than I should an organic race that is potentially dangerous.

I agree with you. I watched I, Robot recently in my Religion and Philosophy class, and it provides lots of food for thought on AI rights. I highly recommend it to everyone involved in this debate.

[Nightwriter]

Boys, you are being unreasonable and maniacally paranoid, and no amount of Matrix references are going to change it.

Yeah, I've seen I, Robot, Cheese. Good movie. I liked it. Not a big fan of the Evil Robot Revolution scenario, always seems like blatant human superstition/paranoia, but that movie I liked.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 25 octobre 2010 - 04:49 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Nightwriter wrote...

Boys, you are being unreasonable and maniacally paranoid, and no amount of fiction movie references are going to change it.

And your being foolishly idealistic and a traitor to humanity. Machines are machines, no matter how advanced they are. If one doesn't work properly, you repair it or scrap it. End of story.

[Silentmode]

To answer the op directly.

I do feel for the Quarian today and the horrible state they have been in for so long but I don't have any sympathy for their ancestors. They brought it upon themselves really and could of handled the situation much better.

[Nightwriter]

ReconTeam wrote...

And your being foolishly idealistic and a traitor to humanity. Machines are machines, no matter how advanced they are. If one doesn't work properly, you repair it or scrap it. End of story.

Which might even be relevant, if the geth were still just machines.

[Inquisitor Recon]

They are still just machines. Self-aware or not they are just a bunch of ones and zeros in a piece of hardware.