261 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Anora has no heir, either, and with a Blight coming, it doesn't matter much if you're on the front lines.  Everyone is under mortal threat.  She acted unwisely and IMO out of overweening personal ambition.  No one's butt is golden enough for that throne but hers.

Not on an equal level, no. She is not putting her life at direct danger for her to need an heir. Alistair is. If the blight kills everyone, then all this is moot. Point is, Anora is not placing herself at risk like Alistair is. He needs an heir as a Warden, she doesn't.

Egad.  A ruler always should have an heir, especially when her country is threatened.  As I said up above, how well did this sort of short-term thinking work out for Cailan?

A smarter, less egotistical person, one who is thinking more about the country than about herself, would have done exactly what Alistair did in Anora's place.

Ah well.  I just wish we had the option to sparta kick her off the top of Fort Drakon.  Someone needs to make that mod!

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Both 
Pick whover you want, I am not here to judge your decisions nor do I care.  There is enough reason to want to pick either. If you don't see it, good for you.

True. There are perfectly valid reasons to pick either or and I'm sorry if I've offended you. I didn't mean to belittle your choice or make it seem incorrect. 

That said you do not get as much power under Anora's rule as you would under Alistair's. That is all I, in my rather clumsy and rude way, was trying to get across.  

Both of them could be good for Fereldan in some ways, and both of them could be bad for Fereldan in other ways. 

For the most part I just pick both of them or Alistair depending on my playthroughs. I can't seem to picture any of my males marrying Anora though. They either are powerhungry and would go with Alistair for that reason, have an LI or don't care enough to deal with her. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 octobre 2010 - 09:31 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
Yet that's another reason for me not to make her Queen she's more concerned about her power and position than the country itself.

"Alistair is more concerned about his revenge than the country itself".

We can do this all day.
Anora cares asbout her power and position yes and why shouldn't she. That does not mean she doesnt' care about the country. You might think she doesn't, I don't.

Ryzaki wrote...
She has no problem with the last remaining wardens being executed if you don't agree to support her bid for the throne. Alistair never attacks you. He simply leaves. That doesn't truly hinder your ability to end the blight. He may be a bit of a brat for doing it, but he doesn't get in your way. 

By deserting my command in front of the whole landsmeet, he is undermining my authority, thus undermining the war effort. Afterall, one soldier leaving doesn't make much difference right. But they are stil killed for it.

Anora doesn't know why the Wardens are necessary, she doesn't know about the taint. So she has little reason to support the WArdens above all else. She even says at the end that she didn't epxect the Wardens to win. So she does not see them as this miracle force that will save Ferelden. If she had known about the taint, it might have been dfifferent. 

[Wulfram]

The big problem with Anora's resume is that she's in the position she is - that is, dependant on the Warden's whims - because she let her Dad and Howe walk all over her and totally screw up the country

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Egad.  A ruler always should have an heir, especially when her country is threatened.  As I said up above, how well did this sort of short-term thinking work out for Cailan?

You mean Cailan the idiot who keeps fighting on the frontlines when everyone is telling him not to?
How is that even comparable to Anora?

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
If she had known about the taint, it might have been dfifferent.  

I think she did know. She knew that Loghain might've died from the ritual. So I'm guess royalty is told for whatever reason. (So...apparently top secret ritual is...not top secret.) 

That said you're right we could do this all day. I've already made my apologies so I'll end that there. 

Edit: Before we even get to Cailan, he's not the type to listen to anything that'll disrupt his fantasies. I'm not saying he's an idiot...but he doesn't pay close enough attention to his surrondings. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 octobre 2010 - 09:35 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
True. There are perfectly valid reasons to pick either or and I'm sorry if I've offended you. I didn't mean to belittle your choice or make it seem incorrect.

No offense taken.

Ryzaki wrote...
That said you do not get as much power under Anora's rule as you would under Alistair's. That is all I, in my rather clumsy and rude way, was trying to get across. 

Yes, because Anora is a stronger less dependent ruler.

[Sarah1281]

Egad. A ruler always should have an heir, especially when her country is threatened. As I said up above, how well did this sort of short-term thinking work out for Cailan?

I don't think it's unreasonable (unless you're planning on probably dying fighting on the front lines of a Blight) to wait until after you get coronated to pick an heir.

The big problem with Anora's resume is that she's in the position she is - that is, dependant on the Warden's whims - because she let her Dad and Howe walk all over her and totally screw up the country

No, she didn't. Loghain gave Howe two extra titles and as teyrn and arl of two arlings he had too much power for any monarch to ignore. Loghain used his army to declare himself regent. The royal army? Died at Ostagar. Loghain's personal army? Did not. She wasn't even reigning queen at that point, just the consort who might as well have been reigning queen but wasn't actually. There isn't much she COULD have done.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
If she had known about the taint, it might have been dfifferent.  

I think she did know. She knew that Loghain might've died from the ritual. So I'm guess royalty is told for whatever reason. (So...apparently top secret ritual is...not top secret.) 

That said you're right we could do this all day. I've already made my apologies so I'll end that there. 

She only knew the ritual was fatal. That's it. There is no evidence that she knew about the taint and that only the Wardens can kill the Archdemon.
Even Cailan was not sure iof Duncan telling him it was a blight, because Duncan has no proof except his "feelings, which he could not reveal was due to him being tainted.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

She only knew the ritual was fatal. That's it. There is no evidence that she knew about the taint and that only the Wardens can kill the Archdemon.
Even Cailan was not sure iof Duncan telling him it was a blight, because Duncan has no proof except his "feelings, which he could not reveal was due to him being tainted.

How would she know the ritual was fatal? Why would Wardens go around telling non-wardens about a ritual at all? 

It's probably just a plot hole but it bugs me. Just like the guy in Awakening who isn't a warden knowing the ritual and ceremony.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 octobre 2010 - 09:38 .

[Sarah1281]

How would she know the ritual was fatal? Why would Wardens go around telling non-wardens about a ritual at all?

Theory: Maric found out in TC and told Cailan who told Anora.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
How would she know the ritual was fatal? Why would Wardens go around telling non-wardens about a ritual at all? 

I don't know and I think this was a writer mistake. Same with senechal Varel in Awakening knowing everything about the Wardens for a very poor reason (they trusted him).

One possible explanation is that Riordan's documents might have mentionned something like that.

[Ryzaki]

Sarah1281 wrote...

How would she know the ritual was fatal? Why would Wardens go around telling non-wardens about a ritual at all?
 

Theory: Maric found out in TC and told Cailan who told Anora.

So what the only thing they know is that there's a fatal ritual and nothing else? Because that's awfully convienent. He just stopped listening or the Warden stopped telling him before they could get to the tainted bit? 

[Ryzaki]

I just go with the assumption that they tell royalty...because otherwise it gives me a headache.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Egad.  A ruler always should have an heir, especially when her country is threatened.  As I said up above, how well did this sort of short-term thinking work out for Cailan?

You mean Cailan the idiot who keeps fighting on the frontlines when everyone is telling him not to?
How is that even comparable to Anora?

Exactly comparable.  Her life is at risk along with everyone's in Ferelden, but she can only think of one thing:  Her throne, that she is entitled to, that she'll do anything to get.  Because she's so glorious Ferelden cannot do without her.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 octobre 2010 - 09:53 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Exactly comparable.  Her life is at risk along with everyone's in Ferelden, but she can only think of one thing:  Her throne, that she is entitled to, that she'll do anything to get.  Because she's so glorious Ferelden cannot do without her.

No, it's not. She will not be fighting on the frontlines, thus her life is not in danger like Alistair's. 
If everyone's life in Ferelden is at risk equally, what's the point of naming an heir, if that heir has the same chance of dying?

If everyone in Ferelden dies, the point is moot, there is no kingdom left to rule.
Since Anora is not fighting, then her life is not greatly at risk. If Ferelden survived she would have too, and so there would not have been a need to name an heir, she can do it afterwards.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 octobre 2010 - 09:59 .

[Jon Jern_]

Now that I think about it Loghain is a pretty sensible guy. But I kill him because his daughter, when made queen, TALKS.LIKE.THIS.AT.THE.PRE.BATTLE.SPEECH.IT'S.REALLY.ANNOYING.

[Ryzaki]

...I have to admit Anora's battle speech is terrible. ...Would I be a bad person if for all my reasons for making Alistair king my real one is just so I don't have to listen to that speech?

[Jon Jern_]

You're not alone. I made her queen at first, she seemed like a pretty solid leader. As soon as she started talking, I reloaded my latest save and made Alistair dictator.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
 
If everyone's life in Ferelden is at risk equally, what's the point of naming an heir, if that heir has the same chance of dying?

Simple numbers- two is better than one.  And she's not safe.  She goes to Redcliffe, even though they expect that that is where the horde is going to attack.  If she had stayed in Denerim, she would have been toast.

But she simply isn't thinking beyond just "me-throne-whatever it takes."  She is willing to see her father killed, the only Grey Wardens killed, or the civil war go on, rather than give up her claim.

Anora has her good points as ruler, but at bottom she is a ruthless, scheming b*tch.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Simple numbers- two is better than one.  And she's not safe.  She goes to Redcliffe, even though they expect that that is where the horde is going to attack.  If she had stayed in Denerim, she would have been toast.

Ok, so why didn't Alistair (when Loghain is spared) and Anora declare an heir for themselves? Both of them won't fight. So why didn't they?  Why didn't Alistair think about it then? Or is it of course Anora the evil scheming "b*tch* who prevented him from doing that?

No one said she was safe, but she is not fighting. If she died at Redcliff, it would have meant that all the army is dead and there is no more Ferelden to speak of, so the heir question is moot.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 octobre 2010 - 10:31 .

[Monica21]

Addai67 wrote...
But she simply isn't thinking beyond just "me-throne-whatever it takes."  She is willing to see her father killed, the only Grey Wardens killed, or the civil war go on, rather than give up her claim.

Anora has her good points as ruler, but at bottom she is a ruthless, scheming b*tch.

I really dislike the "Anora is clearly an awful person because she understands and accepts the political landscape." Maybe she is a ruthless scheming ****, but you know what? ****es get sh!t done.

She was raised to be a queen and she's a strong, capable ruler. Her father is a grown man who made his own decisions. And even if she relinquish her claim, that doesn't change whether her father lives or dies. 

[Monica21]

Jon Jern wrote...

You're not alone. I made her queen at first, she seemed like a pretty solid leader. As soon as she started talking, I reloaded my latest save and made Alistair dictator.

Apparently I'm quite possibly the only player who dislikes both speeches. Alistair's isn't much better. What I wouldn't give for Simon Templeman to give the speech.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Simple numbers- two is better than one.  And she's not safe.  She goes to Redcliffe, even though they expect that that is where the horde is going to attack.  If she had stayed in Denerim, she would have been toast.

Ok, so why didn't Alistair (when Loghain is spared) and Anora declare an heir for themselves? Both of them won't fight. So why didn't they?  Why didn't Alistair think about it then? Or is it of course Anora the evil scheming "b*tch* who prevented him from doing that?

No one said she was safe, but she is not fighting. If she died at Redcliff, it would have meant that all the army is dead and there is no more Ferelden to speak of, so the heir question is moot.

*confused*  Alistair always appoints Anora as his heir.  If they are going to co-rule, there are two of them.

[Ryzaki]

Monica21 wrote...

Apparently I'm quite possibly the only player who dislikes both speeches. Alistair's isn't much better. What I wouldn't give for Simon Templeman to give the speech.

Yeah you're a rarity.   


"For FERELEDAN!" cue charging. I wish my snarky hero had went. "Ah. Meatbags. I hope the last long enough for me to reach the Fort."