261 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Monica21 wrote...
I really dislike the "Anora is clearly an awful person because she understands and accepts the political landscape." Maybe she is a ruthless scheming ****, but you know what? ****es get sh!t done.

She was raised to be a queen and she's a strong, capable ruler. Her father is a grown man who made his own decisions. And even if she relinquish her claim, that doesn't change whether her father lives or dies. 

And I hate "politics made me do it," when it's really about personal ambition.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
*confused*  Alistair always appoints Anora as his heir.  If they are going to co-rule, there are two of them.

When they co-rule. What if they both die? They are both at the same place.
If 2 is better than 1. 3 is better than 2.

So why didn't Alistair, as king and with Anora as Queen, think about it and appoint an heir?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Monica21 wrote...

Jon Jern wrote...

You're not alone. I made her queen at first, she seemed like a pretty solid leader. As soon as she started talking, I reloaded my latest save and made Alistair dictator.

Apparently I'm quite possibly the only player who dislikes both speeches. Alistair's isn't much better. What I wouldn't give for Simon Templeman to give the speech.

You are not. I found both mediocre and eye roll worthy.
"For the Grey Wardens"? Seriously?

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
*confused*  Alistair always appoints Anora as his heir.  If they are going to co-rule, there are two of them.

When they co-rule. What if they both die? They are both at the same place.
If 2 is better than 1. 3 is better than 2.

So why didn't Alistair, as king and with Anora as Queen, think about it and appoint an heir?

Now you're just being silly.  We're talking about how the two available choices of ruler handle the other one being chosen by the Landsmeet.  Alistair thinks ahead and realizes Anora can still prove useful, Anora thinks "ooh, I won, off with his head."

[Ryzaki]

Generally speaking though if someone is in politics they are in it for personal power. 
And before people jump down my throat I said "generally". 
Most of the people that go into politics trying to make the world a better place get stonewalled by the previous group and end up fading into obscurity or gaining fame by breaking the wall to pieces. That is the exception however and not the rule.

...I hate politics.
Most of the time I see someone trying to do the right thing they either get blackmailed into stepping down, mysteriously vanish, or their ideas end up being misconstructed and wrecked. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 octobre 2010 - 10:46 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Now you're just being silly.  We're talking about how the two available choices of ruler handle the other one being chosen by the Landsmeet.  Alistair thinks ahead and realizes Anora can still prove useful, Anora thinks "ooh, I won, off with his head."

Because he is going to fight and put his life at risk as a Warden. So the probability of him dying is so great that he needs an heir.
Anora is not and in the event that she dies, it would have been after Ferelden's army has been broken and the country was lost, so the question of heir is no longer relevent. So Alistair is, I am sorry to say, useless at that point.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 octobre 2010 - 10:48 .

[Monica21]

Addai67 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...
I really dislike the "Anora is clearly an awful person because she understands and accepts the political landscape." Maybe she is a ruthless scheming ****, but you know what? ****es get sh!t done.

She was raised to be a queen and she's a strong, capable ruler. Her father is a grown man who made his own decisions. And even if she relinquish her claim, that doesn't change whether her father lives or dies. 

And I hate "politics made me do it," when it's really about personal ambition.

So tell me again how Loghain would have lived if Anora had given up her claim.

[Addai]

Monica21 wrote...

So tell me again how Loghain would have lived if Anora had given up her claim.

Not really the issue, but what I am referring to is the fact that she'll sell him down the river if she thinks it will help her get the throne.  Otherwise she is just as happy to praise him to the skies and send someone else to the block.

It's just not a very admirable quality IMO.

[Monica21]

Addai67 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

So tell me again how Loghain would have lived if Anora had given up her claim.

Not really the issue, but what I am referring to is the fact that she'll sell him down the river if she thinks it will help her get the throne.  Otherwise she is just as happy to praise him to the skies and send someone else to the block.

It's just not a very admirable quality IMO.

And FDR and Kennedy cheated on their wives. A lot. It's my opinion that the more we start forcing "admirable qualities" on our politicians it lessens the quality of leadership we actually get. I don't give a rat's arse about whether they're good people. I only care about whether they can lead.

Anora has proven that she can and Alistair tells me time and time again, from the minute I set foot in Lothering, that he doesn't want to lead.

[Addai]

Well, we could argue about Anora's competence too, given the state the country is in, but we've all been around and around that.

[Ryzaki]

I always thought the whole "I don't want to rule" was a lack of self-confidence? It's kind of like the girl who thinks she's ugly so doesn't bother prettying herself up. She's not and you have to tell her that a gazillion times until she realizes it. But when she finally does...

[Sarah1281]

Monica21 wrote...

Jon Jern wrote...

You're not alone. I made her queen at first, she seemed like a pretty solid leader. As soon as she started talking, I reloaded my latest save and made Alistair dictator.

Apparently I'm quite possibly the only player who dislikes both speeches. Alistair's isn't much better. What I wouldn't give for Simon Templeman to give the speech.

I don't like either either (not like I ever hear Alistair's...) but that's why I just skip through them both.

[Monica21]

Yes, Alistair lacks self-confidence. But giving him a nation to rule isn't exactly the way I'd go about boosting it.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Apparently I'm quite possibly the only player who dislikes both speeches. Alistair's isn't much better. What I wouldn't give for Simon Templeman to give the speech.

You are not. I found both mediocre and eye roll worthy.
"For the Grey Wardens"? Seriously?

I didn't have much of a problem with most of Alistair's speech itself --in fact my first Warden was quite proud of her Alistair because it was the first (and it turns out, the only) time he sounded like a leader-- but the "for the Grey Wardens!" did sound really weird and inappropriate to my next Warden, who wasn't quite as smitten with him (actually, at that point she wanted nothing to do with him and only reluctantly ackowledged his inclusion of her in his speech). Uh, you want all these people to risk their lives, not for their country or their families or their future, but for the memory of your friends and comrades? Oh-kay. . .sure.

I will get to hear the Anora speech soon and judge which one I find less annoying. Normally I don't like being spoiled even about little things like that in a game, but I'm actually glad to find out now that it'll be she who delivers the speech and not her father. I would be really pissed to find that out at the moment itself.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

Well, we could argue about Anora's competence too, given the state the country is in, but we've all been around and around that.

Well if you want to think that inability to stand up to Loghain, the man with the army, when you are consort and have no formal powers as Queen and being forced to accept that man with the army as regent, to be a lack of competence. Then yea sure.
I just cannot imagine what anyone else would have done in her situation.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 octobre 2010 - 11:08 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...
I will get to hear the Anora speech soon and judge which one I find less annoying.

You will be dissapointed.

SPOILER:





They are the exact same.


End spoiler.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 octobre 2010 - 11:07 .

[Morwen Eledhwen]

She screams "For the Grey Wardens!" too?

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...
I will get to hear the Anora speech soon and judge which one I find less annoying.

You will be dissapointed.

SPOILER:





They are the exact same.


End spoiler.

Oh, that's not quite true. Alistair says 'For my brother, King Cailan' while Anora says 'For my husband, King Cailan.'

[KnightofPhoenix]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

She screams "For the Grey Wardens!" too?

Yep. Sorry to spoil it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 Oh, that's not quite true. Alistair says 'For my brother, King Cailan' while Anora says 'For my husband, King Cailan.'

Haha, yea true. I have to give them some credit. It would have been wierd if Alistair said "For my husband, King Cailan"

Eh, Bhelen should be giving the speech.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
 Oh, that's not quite true. Alistair says 'For my brother, King Cailan' while Anora says 'For my husband, King Cailan.'

Haha, yea true. I have to give them some credit. It would have been wierd if Alistair said "For my husband, King Cailan"

Eh, Bhelen should be giving the speech.

Bhelen wouldn't even have to give a speech. His mere presence would be enough. Although the speeches he does give in-game are infinitely better than the one that the royal speech-writer came up with.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 Bhelen wouldn't even have to give a speech. His mere presence would be enough. Although the speeches he does give in-game are infinitely better than the one that the royal speech-writer came up with.

The "we need absolute unity to fight the fulcrum of true evil"?

I, shamefully, tend to forget things. If there is something I've missed, maybe you can post it in the Dwarf thread please?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 octobre 2010 - 11:16 .

[Morwen Eledhwen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

She screams "For the Grey Wardens!" too?

Yep. Sorry to spoil it.

Oh, no problem. At least now my brain is semi-prepared.

Personally I'd rather hear Loghain scream "FOR MARIC!!" like he does in battle. Although that does crack me up when he does that. "Uh. . .you're killing Deepstalkers and Carta thugs, for Maric? Okay, sure. Hey, you know what, whatever makes you able to fight like that, you just go ahead. FOR MARIC!"

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 22 octobre 2010 - 11:20 .

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
 Bhelen wouldn't even have to give a speech. His mere presence would be enough. Although the speeches he does give in-game are infinitely better than the one that the royal speech-writer came up with.

The "we need absolute unity to fight the fulcrum of true evil"?

I, shamefully, tend to forget things. If there is something I've missed, maybe you can post it in the Dwarf thread please?

I also count his mini-speech when the Warden first arrives in Orzammar and the one he gives when you arrive just in time to crown a king. Seriously, I've done the DN-working-with-Harrowmont-until-the-last-second games and Bhelen's anti-DN alterations are very impressive. Plus siding with him then is the only time in the entire game that he's speechless. Worth it every time.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea "For Maric" would have been nice, he is the symbol of Ferelden's fight for independence (alongside Loghain). But "for the Grey Wardens"? That made me roll my eyes. Then of course they came up with the weirdest decision to give the Arling of Amaranthine (the arling I deem very important for my vision) to the Wardens? I was like "WTF are you doing??". Give it to the Couslands, God dammit!