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[Xilizhra]

So, what are peoples' general in-character relations with Carver?

I think my mage... well, her character's hard to get a hold on, but I think she's begun to resent him greatly for not sufficiently protecting Bethany. He's the soldier, after all; death, in a way, is part of his job, or the possibility is at least inherent in it, so if anyone should be dying for the rest of the family, it's him. It may not be fair, but I do see her holding that against him.

[leggywillow]

Xilizhra wrote...

So, what are peoples' general in-character relations with Carver?

I think my mage... well, her character's hard to get a hold on, but I think she's begun to resent him greatly for not sufficiently protecting Bethany. He's the soldier, after all; death, in a way, is part of his job, or the possibility is at least inherent in it, so if anyone should be dying for the rest of the family, it's him. It may not be fair, but I do see her holding that against him.

I always rival Carver, so it's pretty much what's expressed in-game.  Hawke loves him and is fiercely protective of him but also thinks he's a complete ass who needs a good smack.  They're so much alike that they tend to butt heads.  I know Hawke is pretty frustrated by their Act 1 and 2 relationship.  She wants to be as close to him as she was with Bethany and get along flawlessly, but for some reason neither of them can say a word without it developing into a brawl.  Picking a mix of snarky and aggressive options during Carver's 2 post-Birthright conversations expresses their relationship pretty well, I feel.

[Xilizhra]

I think my Hawke does love him, but it's not necessarily completely healthy love. She doesn't want to admit it, but she did, in the end, love Bethany more. She'll try to avoid outright fighting with him because her nature is naturally diplomatic, but she does have an angry streak that's only developed over the years.

[Wulfram]

Hawke loves teasing her little brother, particularly since he makes himself such an inviting target. She perhaps didn't take him and his desire to prove himself seriously enough, and this is perhaps why he ended up joining the Templars - something which hurt her deeply, though she's unlikely to admit it.

[Nyreen]

Does anyone know how to get second row, last column Carver?

Modifié par Celestina, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:57 .

[Quething]

My main mage!Hawke looks at him with a bit of pity, honestly. To her the rivalry is all in his head. She understands why he's mad and why he resents her, and she doesn't hold it against him, because she knows Malcolm did favor her and Bethany. But in the end it's a little boy being a little boy, and she's an adult with a family to take care of, said little boy included; she has neither the inclination to indulge his imagined competition, nor the time to do so even if she did. She tends to take diplomatic responses with him, as they're generally the most mature and parental options. Though once he grows up and comes back as a Grey Warden, she gets a bit more snarky with him and starts treating him like an equal (she's inexpressibly proud of the man he becomes).

Dude!Hawke is a bit of a jerk and thinks the rivalry is fun. He delights in teasing Carver and poking at his insecurities, secure in the knowledge that they're siblings and both kind of prats and what else would they do? It's not until Carver joins the Templar Order that he realizes just how seriously Carver actually took it; at that point he feels absolutely horrible and starts trying to treat him better and clumsily apologize for being such an ass all those years, but of course twenty years is a lot of time to make up for, and Carver doesn't really seem to be having it.

@Celistina: Second row, last column Carver is the Asian head 2. So fourth, fifth or sixth default head, with one of the Asian skintones (fifth through eigth skin tones IIRC).

Modifié par Quething, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:15 .

[llandwynwyn]

leggywillow wrote...
I think during the "rescue" sequence, Merrill will deflect Carver from flirting with her... though I could be wrong, as I haven't actually brought the two of them together.

I adored that Isabela banter, though.  Carver and Merrill is my secondary Carver ship.  I ship Grey Warden Carver (my favorite version) with a Tabris or Surana Warden, and Templar Carver with Merrill.

Ah, that's too bad. Poor little brother.

I ship GW!Carv with my Surana, too. I think she's the only of my Wardens capable of enduring his bs for long. lol
Oh, and Templar with Keran's sister, Macha. I don't know why, but I think they would be cute together.

Lilunebrium wrote...
Considering how Aveline is another one of those, I can honestly say I am thoroughly impressed by Kristjanson's writing.

Yeah, he wrote all my favorite characters in ME and DA. <3

Xilizhra wrote...

So, what are peoples' general in-character relations with Carver?

Depends on the Hawke.
Some love him dearly, some just want him to shut his bloody mouth and some love nothing more than to tease him merciless. Gotta love troll Hawkes xD

[Xilizhra]

One thing I learned just now is that Carver gets this speech on how he sees the templar side of things better if you bring him to the sanctuary in Enemies Among Us. I decided to take the humorous response, i.e. "Of course, maniacs with swords and the Maker on their side never hurt anyone."

[StaceysChain]

Xilizhra wrote...

So, what are peoples' general in-character relations with Carver?

I think my mage... well, her character's hard to get a hold on, but I think she's begun to resent him greatly for not sufficiently protecting Bethany. He's the soldier, after all; death, in a way, is part of his job, or the possibility is at least inherent in it, so if anyone should be dying for the rest of the family, it's him. It may not be fair, but I do see her holding that against him.

I have two mage Hawkes - my "canon" one is Mina, and the other is Daniel. Here is what I like to think:

Mina somewhat pitied Carver because Malcolm was unable to spend as much time with him unlike her and Bethany, and he never really fit in with them due to him not being a mage and therefore not understanding magic. Even though she found it hard to get close to him and thought he was childish and selfish at times, she could understand where his frustrations was coming from and loved him just as much as she loved the rest of the family. Mina knew that if Carver was given the chance, he would mature and find his way in life. She never gave up on this hope and supported him as best she could, nevertheless if Carver ever said or did something that was out of the question, she wouldn't hesitate to scold him (and make him feel guilty about it). In Kirkwall, they finally grew close and although Carver began to fear magic due to the blood mages there, Mina was always there to reassure him that not all mages where like that. Mina took Carver with her on the Deep Roads Expedition because she knew he wanted to prove that he didn't need to be a mage to face danger, but deeply regretted this even he contracted the taint. Luckily she had persuaded Anders to accompany them and with his help they managed to locate Grey Wardens and save Carver's life. Mina however never stopped regretting bringing Carver to the Deep Roads - she thought it was deeply unfair that he was resigned to the fate of fighting Darkspawn and dying an early death, her hope was fulfilled in the end though as Carver matured and proved his worth by being a Grey Warden. The two remained close in their adult lives. Mina also secretly hopes that Carver and Merrill will one day end up together.

Daniel however never liked Carver, despite them being brothers. He found him arrogant, weak, lazy and selfish and never lost an opportunity in making these thoughts known to Carver. Daniel also delighted in making Carver look like an idiot in front of everyone and didn't care for his welfare (unlike Bethany whom he loved dearly). Daniel's dislike soon deepened when Bethany was killed and Carver blamed him for it. Daniel saw it as Carver's way of trying to hurt him (which it probably was although Daniel also blamed himself for her death), and felt no shame into wishing that it should've been Carver who died, not Bethany. Daniel then refused to bring Carver to the Deep Roads out of spite. When Carver joined the templars, Daniel's dislike turned into outright hatred - like with Bethany's death Daniel thought Carver was trying to spite him and he disowned his brother secretly, so he didn't upset Leandra even more. Daniel also promised himself that if Carver ever tried to bring him or Merrill (his love) to the circle, he would kill him. When it came to the battle between templars and mages Daniel's hatred of his brother was so deep that he was actually looking forward to killing him (even if he was slightly disturbed by it)and was very surprised when Carver defended him from Meredith - something that would never had happened if Daniel was the templar and Carver the mage.

[leggywillow]

LOL, listening to some of the dialogue from MOTA.  Carver has turned the flirting up to eleven; it's great.

Carver (to Merrill, about a baby griffon): You could tame it.  Tame its wild heart...
Hawke: ::quickly tries to turn a laugh into a cough:: I'm sorry, I really am.
Carver: QUIET, YOU! ...and there goes the moment.

Isabela: I always did like a man in uniform.
Carver: You sure you wouldn't like a man out of uniform better?

Isabela: I always did like a man on a mission.
Carver:  Wardens go deep.  It's a hard calling.  And we also save the world.
Isabela: Very interesting.
Hawke: No it isn't!  It's definitely not!
Carver: ::hardcore bragging:: I'll tell you about it sometime.  When I'm not, you know, saving the world.

[Drone696]

LMAO!!!
I'm torn between hot and awkward - that's my Carver!

[Sialater]

Xilizhra wrote...

So, what are peoples' general in-character relations with Carver?

I think my mage... well, her character's hard to get a hold on, but I think she's begun to resent him greatly for not sufficiently protecting Bethany. He's the soldier, after all; death, in a way, is part of his job, or the possibility is at least inherent in it, so if anyone should be dying for the rest of the family, it's him. It may not be fair, but I do see her holding that against him.

So, the powerful female mage needed a big, tough male warrior to come save her?  Is that what you're saying, Xilizhra?

I just want to clarify.

[Sialater]

leggywillow wrote...

LOL, listening to some of the dialogue from MOTA.  Carver has turned the flirting up to eleven; it's great.

Carver (to Merrill, about a baby griffon): You could tame it.  Tame its wild heart...
Hawke: ::quickly tries to turn a laugh into a cough:: I'm sorry, I really am.
Carver: QUIET, YOU! ...and there goes the moment.

Isabela: I always did like a man in uniform.
Carver: You sure you wouldn't like a man out of uniform better?

Isabela: I always did like a man on a mission.
Carver:  Wardens go deep.  It's a hard calling.  And we also save the world.
Isabela: Very interesting.
Hawke: No it isn't!  It's definitely not!
Carver: ::hardcore bragging:: I'll tell you about it sometime.  When I'm not, you know, saving the world.

I have GOT to go DL this.  That's wonderful!   (I have the points, I just haven't gotten around to it.)

Modifié par Sialater, 17 octobre 2011 - 09:28 .

[leggywillow]

Sialater wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I think my mage... well, her character's hard to get a hold on, but I think she's begun to resent him greatly for not sufficiently protecting Bethany. He's the soldier, after all; death, in a way, is part of his job, or the possibility is at least inherent in it, so if anyone should be dying for the rest of the family, it's him. It may not be fair, but I do see her holding that against him.

So, the powerful female mage needed a big, tough male warrior to come save her?  Is that what you're saying, Xilizhra?

I just want to clarify.

Xilizhra does say right there in the bolded that it's not necessarily a fair opinion for her Hawke to have.  And since Xili's own mage is a female I don't think he was trying to imply anything.

[Aggie Punbot]

leggywillow wrote...

LOL, listening to some of the dialogue from MOTA.  Carver has turned the flirting up to eleven; it's great.

Carver (to Merrill, about a baby griffon): You could tame it.  Tame its wild heart...
Hawke: ::quickly tries to turn a laugh into a cough:: I'm sorry, I really am.
Carver: QUIET, YOU! ...and there goes the moment.

Isabela: I always did like a man in uniform.
Carver: You sure you wouldn't like a man out of uniform better?

Isabela: I always did like a man on a mission.
Carver:  Wardens go deep.  It's a hard calling.  And we also save the world.
Isabela: Very interesting.
Hawke: No it isn't!  It's definitely not!
Carver: ::hardcore bragging:: I'll tell you about it sometime.  When I'm not, you know, saving the world.

ROFL! I have to try these combinations now! The only one I've gotten that's really made me lol is this one between Anders and (friendly) Carver:

Anders: I told you we shouldn't have turned left back there.
Carver: Maker forgive me for not having my sister's sense of direction!
Anders: Oh for Andraste's sake, leave Hawke out of this.
Carver: Perhaps we'll find our way by considering the plight of mages in modern...oh shut your bloody face.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:33 .

[GameBoyish]

Sialater wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So, what are peoples' general in-character relations with Carver?

I think my mage... well, her character's hard to get a hold on, but I think she's begun to resent him greatly for not sufficiently protecting Bethany. He's the soldier, after all; death, in a way, is part of his job, or the possibility is at least inherent in it, so if anyone should be dying for the rest of the family, it's him. It may not be fair, but I do see her holding that against him.

So, the powerful female mage needed a big, tough male warrior to come save her?  Is that what you're saying, Xilizhra?

I just want to clarify.

:lol:

@Xil you're saying soldiers are meant to die for mages, while the mages are delicate flowers who can't fend for themselves? 
(I know I am echoing Sia)

[GameBoyish]

Btw, Carver thread, I have missed you so! I've been to busy with Varric's and Jacob's threads.

[llandwynwyn]

leggywillow wrote...

Isabela: I always did like a man in uniform.
Carver: You sure you wouldn't like a man out of uniform better?

Isabela: I always did like a man on a mission.
Carver:  Wardens go deep.  It's a hard calling.  And we also save the world.
Isabela: Very interesting.
Hawke: No it isn't!  It's definitely not!
Carver: ::hardcore bragging:: I'll tell you about it sometime.  When I'm not, you know, saving the world.

ahahah Carver/Isabela was pure gold.

Sialater wrote...

So, the powerful female mage needed a big, tough male warrior to come save her?  Is that what you're saying, Xilizhra?

I just want to clarify.

I'm not Xilizhra, obviously, but I did get the impression that the soldier was protecting the mage and the rest Leandra.
If Hawke is a mage, the family only escapes when they did because Carver comes back from Ostagar. So the Warrior/Rogue (protector) is established in one of the first scenes of the game.

Really, what a weird question. While in gameplay there's not a big difference, lore says Warrior are stonger than Mages and have a clear vantage in short range. A reason, I think, Malcom knew martial arts and must have taught all his children. Of course, the warrior/rogue (Hawke or Carver) exceeds at it.

I'll ignore the gender bit for obvious reasons.

[Sialater]

I made my comment because it's a long-standing debate I've had with Xilizhra about the superiority of mages. She has asserted in the past that Mages are automatically superior to non-mages. That's what my comment was based on.

Honestly, neither Carver nor Hawke were close enough to save Bethany. But Hawke, being a mage herself, would have resources at that point that Carver did not, namely a ranged attack with her ice spell. Then, Aveline is also standing there, she could have done something as well.

Hawke, being the defacto leader of their family as the scion of Malcolm, should have been the one to take responsibility for Bethany's death. IF, in fact, responsibility should be taken. Carver carries no blame here, at all. Though, obviously, you can RP however you wish.

[llandwynwyn]

^ Rogue are obviously the superiour class. lol Especially Arch Rogues.

I think the death of the sibling was badly done for that reason. A wild ogre suddenly appears and Hawke and cia do nothing but watch the sibling thrown themself at death. If a distraction was so important, they should've used Wesley. He was going to die anyway

[Arquen]

I've always loved Carver... the DLC just made me love him a little more. Seriously awesome banters little bro! It made me miss having him along. I've taken both Templar and Warden Carver. That dialogue with Izzy... I was in stitches.

Btw... hi Carver thread. Funny, I lurk here all the time. Havent posted yet. Though I was totally a fan of Carver since day one. My first Hawke was a mage, there was no going back to Bethany after that, lol. I like Beth, but Carver totally is my fav.

[Aggie Punbot]

I wish I could always save Carver, but my newfound love of the warrior class kind of negates that.

As for the previous question about how you roleplay your relationship with Carver: most of Hawkes do a snarky-but-loving relationship with him. They all totally understand why Carver is so bitter and resentful so they try to be as patient with him as they can be. I suspect my Sarcastic Hawkes used to play tricks on Carver (i.e. changing his hair color or whatnot) which probably led to the resentment on his part.

[Xilizhra]

Sialater wrote...

I made my comment because it's a long-standing debate I've had with Xilizhra about the superiority of mages. She has asserted in the past that Mages are automatically superior to non-mages. That's what my comment was based on.

Honestly, neither Carver nor Hawke were close enough to save Bethany. But Hawke, being a mage herself, would have resources at that point that Carver did not, namely a ranged attack with her ice spell. Then, Aveline is also standing there, she could have done something as well.

Hawke, being the defacto leader of their family as the scion of Malcolm, should have been the one to take responsibility for Bethany's death. IF, in fact, responsibility should be taken. Carver carries no blame here, at all. Though, obviously, you can RP however you wish.

Any possible political opinions regarding that wouldn't be formed nearly that early. They were all just family there.

However, though her response was relatively mild, my own Hawke has never quite forgiven Carver for blaming her for Bethany's death either. I believe she's going to keep Carver out of Legacy as well, though that's more because he joined the freaking templars.

[Nyreen]

What makes Carver less of a wanker - joining the Wardens, or the Templars?

[Eudaemonium]

Celestina wrote...

What makes Carver less of a wanker - joining the Wardens, or the Templars?

I'd say Warden. He seems happier there, but you still have to wait until end-game/Legacy/MotA to get the real development. If you get him up to friendship he becomes less of a ****** as well. I think on my next playthrough I'm going to try that, since it is now possible (just, with Legacy) to get him to 100 Friendship.