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[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Does Carver have to be full rival or friend in order to re-join Hawke (if s/he sided with mages) when he is a templar? Or will you have to kill him?

I hope I don't have to kill him on my current playthrough.

[Chignon]

The Lesser Evil wrote...

LOL. Oh, gore-ious.

I'd describe Carver's re-entry into the story during the final battle (where he rips up a Shade) as a gore-ious entry.

Question for the other Carver appreciators: am I the only one who wanted to Renegade-interrupt Aveline when she called Hawke's baby brother  "a bit of a ******"? It's bad enough that she ****-blocked him from having a sense of self-worth and a purpose in Act 1 by keeping him from joining the City Guard...

I love that scene as well - even more so because I wasn't expecting it at all. Espeially after he said more or less Goodbye and left with the Grey Warden's during the whole Qunari business.

And no, you're not alone at all. These were the only two times in the entire game that I intensely disliked Aveline. I wished Hawke could've been able to at least say something at that point and defend him like Carver did for Hawke with Fenris later but no, nothing.

Edit

Lizardviking wrote...

Does Carver have to be full rival or friend in order to re-join Hawke (if s/he sided with mages) when he is a templar? Or will you have to kill him?

I hope I don't have to kill him on my current playthrough.

No, he will stand by your side no matter what - mages, templars, rivals, friends.

Modifié par Chignon, 15 mars 2011 - 04:54 .

[Sialater]

Chignon wrote...

The Lesser Evil wrote...

LOL. Oh, gore-ious.

I'd describe Carver's re-entry into the story during the final battle (where he rips up a Shade) as a gore-ious entry.

Question for the other Carver appreciators: am I the only one who wanted to Renegade-interrupt Aveline when she called Hawke's baby brother  "a bit of a ******"? It's bad enough that she ****-blocked him from having a sense of self-worth and a purpose in Act 1 by keeping him from joining the City Guard...

I love that scene as well - even more so because I wasn't expecting it at all. Espeially after he said more or less Goodbye and left with the Grey Warden's during the whole Qunari business.

And no, you're not alone at all. These were the only two times in the entire game that I intensely disliked Aveline. I wished Hawke could've been able to at least say something at that point and defend him like Carver did for Hawke with Fenris later but no, nothing.

Edit

Lizardviking wrote...

Does Carver have to be full rival or friend in order to re-join Hawke (if s/he sided with mages) when he is a templar? Or will you have to kill him?

I hope I don't have to kill him on my current playthrough.

No, he will stand by your side no matter what - mages, templars, rivals, friends.

Yeah, it took a while for me to forgive Aveline that cut against him.  Fighting is all he's ever done and you want him to take up another trade?  Because he doesn't fit inside your narrow box?  

[Saberchic]

Lizardviking wrote...

Does Carver have to be full rival or friend in order to re-join Hawke (if s/he sided with mages) when he is a templar? Or will you have to kill him?

I hope I don't have to kill him on my current playthrough.

No. I was working on getting him friendly when he was taken from me. At the end, he rejoined me. I don't believe I was even at 50% friendly. I can't judge how friendly I had gotten him, but we definitely weren't in rival territory anymore.

edit: 'd!

Modifié par Saberchic, 15 mars 2011 - 04:59 .

[Chignon]

Sialater wrote...

Yeah, it took a while for me to forgive Aveline that cut against him.  Fighting is all he's ever done and you want him to take up another trade?  Because he doesn't fit inside your narrow box?  

I feel the same and I still hold it against her, to be honest. Don't get me wrong - I love her; she's my second favourite in the game but Aveline judging him like that was out of line in my opinion. 
He served in the army, helped to defend Ostagar and King Cailan and his heart is in the right place - I think he's more than qualified to serve as a City Guard.

Modifié par Chignon, 15 mars 2011 - 05:13 .

[Sialater]

Chignon wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Yeah, it took a while for me to forgive Aveline that cut against him.  Fighting is all he's ever done and you want him to take up another trade?  Because he doesn't fit inside your narrow box?  

I feel the same and I still hold it against her, to be honest. Don't get me wrong - I love her; she's my second favourite in the game but Aveline judging him like that was out of line in my opinion. 
He served in the army, helped to defend Ostagar and King Cailan and his heart is in the right place - I think he's more than qualified to serve as a City Guard.

She called him "selfish."  Nobody disses my little brother.  *sniff*.

[Chignon]

Sialater wrote...

She called him "selfish."  Nobody disses my little brother.  *sniff*.

There, there, Sia. *pets*

Although, Aveline's quip about Carver "treating her like family" made me laugh.

[Sialater]

Chignon wrote...

Sialater wrote...

She called him "selfish."  Nobody disses my little brother.  *sniff*.

There, there, Sia. *pets*

Although, Aveline's quip about Carver "treating her like family" made me laugh.

Being grumpy at her, I assume. LOL. 

[leggywillow]

Yay the Carver thread got moved over here!

I love Carver SO MUCH.  I way prefer him to Bethany, and it's going to really suck not having him during my non-mage playthroughs.  His tense rivalry dynamic with Hawke is so complex and awesome.  I absolutely adore their interactions.

He was a Grey Warden in my last playthrough, but he just joined up with the templars in this one.  I miss him.

[LobselVith8]

Is it impossible to get Carver to full friendship? He seems geared towards rivalry and he doesn't stay with the group that long.

[Sialater]

Hate mages, I assume.

Which is odd... considering you have to BE a mage to keep him.

[leggywillow]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Is it impossible to get Carver to full friendship? He seems geared towards rivalry and he doesn't stay with the group that long.

The guide says it isn't impossible but it will require some very dedicated planning.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Just got to the part where Carver joins the templars. While not bad, it is not as well executed as when Bethany gets dragged away to the circle.

I think that more dialog between Hawke and Carver was needed, something to build up to the point where Carver just slams the door and leaves. A small handful of lines work in Bethany's version because it helps enforce the feeling of living in an unfair, unjust system where you are completely powerless to do anything (from both Bethany and Hawke's perspective).

Carver's version is more about him finally feels like he had enough of being left out or not have any say in anything. There should be a personal conflict between Hawke and Carver (if desired), but the small amount of dialog means that the scene will never reach it's full potential.

Thoughts?

[leggywillow]

Lizardviking wrote...

Just got to the part where Carver joins the templars. While not bad, it is not as well executed as when Bethany gets dragged away to the circle.

I think that more dialog between Hawke and Carver was needed, something to build up to the point where Carver just slams the door and leaves. A small handful of lines work in Bethany's version because it helps enforce the feeling of living in an unfair, unjust system where you are completely powerless to do anything (from both Bethany and Hawke's perspective).

Carver's version is more about him finally feels like he had enough of being left out or not have any say in anything. There should be a personal conflict between Hawke and Carver (if desired), but the small amount of dialog means that the scene will never reach it's full potential.

Thoughts?

You will never hear me arguing against more dialogue and development, that's for sure.  I think it was fairly well-handled, though.  You can have a conversation with Merrill in her house about it afterwards that lets you expand more on Hawke's point of view in the situation.  I guess she has a similar conversation about Bethany, but the Carver one was really nice.

[Chignon]

Sialater wrote...

Being grumpy at her, I assume. LOL.

How'd you guess?

LobselVith8 wrote...

Is it impossible to get Carver to full friendship? He seems geared towards rivalry and he doesn't stay with the group that long.

It's not impossible. I nearly managed it - I think I've had only ten points or so missing, give or take a few.

Lizardviking wrote...

Just got to the part where Carver joins the templars. While not bad, it is not as well executed as when Bethany gets dragged away to the circle.

I think that more dialog between Hawke and Carver was needed, something to build up to the point where Carver just slams the door and leaves. A small handful of lines work in Bethany's version because it helps enforce the feeling of living in an unfair, unjust system where you are completely powerless to do anything (from both Bethany and Hawke's perspective).

Carver's version is more about him finally feels like he had enough of being left out or not have any say in anything. There should be a personal conflict between Hawke and Carver (if desired), but the small amount of dialog means that the scene will never reach it's full potential.

Thoughts?

More dialogue? I'm all for it!

I think the scene is a bit better geared towards Hawkes that pursued the rivalry path.  Or maybe not. When I think about it it can be interpreted working just as well for the friendship path. He felt betrayed and once again not good enough to be taken along and help to get things done just when he thought it was all going well.
He was probably brooding about the issue the whole time until he just decided to do something. He couldn't join the Circle - obviously - nor the Guardsmen (thanks, Aveline!), he hates smugglers and mercenaries. So what was left? The templars.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Chignon wrote...

I think the scene is a bit better geared towards Hawkes that pursued the rivalry path.  Or maybe not. When I think about it it can be interpreted working just as well for the friendship path. He felt betrayed and once again not good enough to be taken along and help to get things done just when he thought it was all going well.
He was probably brooding about the issue the whole time until he just decided to do something. He couldn't join the Circle - obviously - nor the Guardsmen (thanks, Aveline!), he hates smugglers and mercenaries. So what was left? The templars.

While those are good interpretations. I still feel that Carver was obviously designed with a rival path in mind. Since most of his character is build on him feelings overshadowed by his mage siblings and never being able to find his own place in life.

And like I said. The scene simply needs more dialog. Hawke should be arguing for him to not to it, then things escalate when Carver refuses to listen. Then perhaps end with them yelling at each other.

Was also slightly dissapointed that there was no dialog option for Hawke to say "How could you join the very group that have been hunting us OUR ENTIRE LIFE!".

[Mr.House]

I personally loved the reunion with GW Carver during the final battle. It was great to see him mature.

[leggywillow]

Lizardviking wrote...

Was also slightly dissapointed that there was no dialog option for Hawke to say "How could you join the very group that have been hunting us OUR ENTIRE LIFE!".

Hawke didn't use those exact words, but there was the option to say "Are you forgetting that I'M A MAGE?!".  Carver responds with "See, I knew you'd make this all about you."

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

leggywillow wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Was also slightly dissapointed that there was no dialog option for Hawke to say "How could you join the very group that have been hunting us OUR ENTIRE LIFE!".

Hawke didn't use those exact words, but there was the option to say "Are you forgetting that I'M A MAGE?!".  Carver responds with "See, I knew you'd make this all about you."

Yeah. I really liked that, but the arguement really should have continued and perhaps my suggestion could be one of the things Hawke yells at Carver. Perhaps in response when Carver says "I'm gonna do what father always wanted me to do, to find my own path!".

[Kemmer]

Leggywillow inspired me to try Carver out. I originally had no interest in playing a mage, but since it was the only way to play with Carver, I gave it a try. I got so immersed in it, I've barely played my original rogue Hawke. Carver just has so much more personality than Bethany.

[Chignon]

Lizardviking wrote...

Yeah. I really liked that, but the arguement really should have continued and perhaps my suggestion could be one of the things Hawke yells at Carver. Perhaps in response when Carver says "I'm gonna do what father always wanted me to do, to find my own path!".

Now that would've been nice!

But yes, I agree completely. The scene felt a very abrupt. But maybe this abruptness was intended to be this way; I was completely taken by surprise and my Hawke was, too.

Kemmer wrote...

Leggywillow inspired me to try Carver out. I originally had no interest in playing a mage, but since it was the only way to play with Carver, I gave it a try. I got so immersed in it, I've barely played my original rogue Hawke. Carver just has so much more personality than Bethany.

I've heard this a lot. The last part, I mean. But I'm glad you liked your mage playthrough this much.

Mr.House wrote...

I personally loved the reunion with GW Carver during the final battle. It was great to see him mature.

I'm with you on that one. Even though the Grey Warden ending is very bittersweet, in my opinion.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Chignon wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Yeah. I really liked that, but the arguement really should have continued and perhaps my suggestion could be one of the things Hawke yells at Carver. Perhaps in response when Carver says "I'm gonna do what father always wanted me to do, to find my own path!".

Now that would've been nice!

But yes, I agree completely. The scene felt a very abrupt. But maybe this abruptness was intended to be this way; I was completely taken by surprise and my Hawke was, too.

Perhaps something like this??

C: I'm joining the templars.

H: Carver, you are aware that your sister is an apostage!

C: See! [Looks at MamaHawke then Hawke again] I knew you'd make this all yourself! [Pause] No... I'm doing what father always wanted me to do, find my own path!

H: What father wanted?! Carver,  do you think father would have wanted you join the very thugs that have hunted this family our entire lives. Do you think Bethany would want this?! DO YOU THINK FATHER WOULD WANT THIS!!

Too over the top maybe?

[HK-90210]

OK, this is the only place I believe might know the answer to this question: Can you get Carver back as a campanion for the last battle if he joins the templars and you side with the mages? Not the little scene where he defends you against Meredith along with Cullen, but actual squad re-joining.

I know he can still side with you as a Grey Warden, but my current MageHawke couldn't bear to put him in danger in the deep roads(plus he and Anders are both healers, and it would make that dungeon particularily difficult. And I will not kill my little brother! I WON'T!)

On a sidenote, I found I genuinely disliked Carver on my first mage playthrough. He was being an obnoxious little ****. But when I found out he had the darkspawn taint, my Hawke went all big-sister on him, and made sure he got the help he needed. And wrote letters. And got pissed off when he didn't write back very often.

Now her only problem is that, due to the darkspawn taint affecting fertility, she probably won't have any nieces or nephews from Carver. I guess she and Fenris better get working at it if they want to extend the Hawke/Amell bloodline.

QuickEdit: Wait, just thought of this, maybe Carver already had a child with that farmgirl back in Lothering that wrote him a letter! Just thought of that!

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 16 mars 2011 - 02:15 .

[Lirea Dragonage]

I love my bro. I'm so glad he returned at the end to be by my Hawke's side - that was awesome and something I'd been hoping for the entire playthrough. He's become one of my favourite DA2 characters no question.

[Space Toaster]

CastonFolarus wrote...
Wait, just thought of this, maybe Carver already had a child with that farmgirl back in Lothering that wrote him a letter! Just thought of that!

They didn't have sex if you're a male Hawke, so I doubt it.