339 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

Morroian wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Because you are fighting the same Darkspawn you were fighting in Origins except for no reason other than artist thinking it was neat, they look different.  Storywise, this makes not sense.  I am a big stickler on story making sense and continuity so this bothers me...a lot.  There is no justifiable reason that the same darkspawn you were fighting in origins all of a sudden look radically different.

Why does there have to be a strory reason? Accept the meta reason that they changed the art style for whatever reason and move on. Heck I thought Star Trek were stupid for giving an instory reason for the change in Klingons. Its not needed.

crimzontearz wrote...

but I can tell they are darkspan because I spent some 250 hours on dragon age and I come to the forums all the time and whatnot and because I was TOLD that was darkspawn. But if someone just showed me a picture of the Darkspawn from DAO and one from DA2 and asked me if they were the same thing without me knowing much about it I'd have said NO

I'd have said yes. They are clearly darkspawn.

See you are starting fromthe preconcept that you know what the darkspawn are and look like in DAO. But if you showed them to someone else? Someone who never played either games? If you look at the darkspawn from DA2 they have nothing in common visually to the previous iteration aside for the lack of lips. Seriously not many would say they are the same kind of creature...and where are the the genlocks btw?

Modifié par crimzontearz, 25 octobre 2010 - 02:17 .

[Nerevar-as]

Morroian wrote...


I'd have said yes. They are clearly darkspawn.

They look a lot more like the walking corpses you fight in Redcliff and some other places than DS to me. That was what I thought the first time I saw the picture until I read the description. Feel curious how the walking corpses will look in DA2 now.

While it´s not nearly as bad, the new DS look make me think of Goku 4th level and the Newborn from Alien 4. It´s not only that the artist thought it was a good idea, I also wonder why the people involved in those approved the designs.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Jestina wrote...

DA2=What you get when Mass Effect crashes into a badly done JRPG.

-sigh- 

[TopBoost]

I just read through this thread and I find it quite distressing that Gaider didn't hear what he wanted to hear and promptly dismissed everyone's opinion. That's troubling.

[crimzontearz]

Yellow Words wrote...

Jestina wrote...

DA2=What you get when Mass Effect crashes into a badly done JRPG.

-sigh- 

Yeah I did not get that one either. Jrpgs are usually turn based and totally linear....how did that work?

[crimzontearz]

No company will ever try to justify at lenght a decision which is viewed as unpopular. Above all not on a forum.

[Stanley Woo]

TopBoost wrote...

I just read through this thread and I find it quite distressing that Gaider didn't hear what he wanted to hear and promptly dismissed everyone's opinion. That's troubling.

I think trying to convince each and every person who disagrees with us about an upcoming game feature or game decision in a forum setting is ultimately a losing proposition, like Survival mode. there will always be opposition, someone whose objections weren't answered to their satisfaction, and who really, really wants to like the game. Really, though, nothing we say will be able to convince everyone to like the game, and that's okay. At some point, the player has to take a chance and buy/play a game he doesn't know everything about and risk being surprised, either pleasantly or unpleasantly.

It's a little unfair, in my opinion, to force David (or any of us) to continue to wade into the chum-filled sea of anonymous internet disagreement.

[TopBoost]

Stanley Woo wrote...

TopBoost wrote...

I just read through this thread and I find it quite distressing that Gaider didn't hear what he wanted to hear and promptly dismissed everyone's opinion. That's troubling.

I think trying to convince each and every person who disagrees with us about an upcoming game feature or game decision in a forum setting is ultimately a losing proposition, like Survival mode. there will always be opposition, someone whose objections weren't answered to their satisfaction, and who really, really wants to like the game. Really, though, nothing we say will be able to convince everyone to like the game, and that's okay. At some point, the player has to take a chance and buy/play a game he doesn't know everything about and risk being surprised, either pleasantly or unpleasantly.

It's a little unfair, in my opinion, to force David (or any of us) to continue to wade into the chum-filled sea of anonymous internet disagreement.

I understand your stance.  I also understand the change in art direction.  That's cool. 
I think I need to elaborate my statement:  His attitude was troubling to me.  However, I see his and your perspective, I think. I appreciate your reply, man.  

[Jestina]

crimzontearz wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

Jestina wrote...
DA2=What you get when Mass Effect crashes into a badly done JRPG.

-sigh-

Yeah I did not get that one either. Jrpgs are usually turn based and totally linear....how did that work?

Most JRPG's are NOT linear and some are actiony based. It's more in reference to the new and goofy art style...with scrawny people swinging huge unwieldy swords, gravity defying bewbs and clothes, armour that provides little coverage, fight scenes that looks like they came out of Street Fighter, FF, or Dragon Ball.

[Nerevar-as]

Red Sonja has most of that, no need to go to Japan. Berserk (manga version) on the other side, is most of that done right, if you can stomach it.



What I´m afraid is that they´ve changed the subgenre of fantasy Origins was. Varrick´s narration almost seems (from what I know so far) the way a bad Howard imitator would write ASoF&I. It makes the Ogre & Dragon killing moves look trivial. It seems the way actual fights look will be similar to a point, so this may look more like pulp. Hard to know before seeing that part of gameply, and would have to play it myself to get the feel. No chance of a demo?

[Shiakazee]

Jestina wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

Jestina wrote...
DA2=What you get when Mass Effect crashes into a badly done JRPG.

-sigh-

Yeah I did not get that one either. Jrpgs are usually turn based and totally linear....how did that work?

Most JRPG's are linear and most are actiony based. It's more in reference to the new and goofy art style...with scrawny people swinging huge unwieldy swords, gravity defying bewbs and clothes, armour that provides little coverage, fight scenes that looks like they came out of Street Fighter, FF, or Dragon Ball.

Fixed***

[Stanley Woo]

TopBoost wrote...

I understand your stance.  I also understand the change in art direction.  That's cool. 
I think I need to elaborate my statement:  His attitude was troubling to me.  However, I see his and your perspective, I think. I appreciate your reply, man.  

We're always happy to engage in conersation, we just can't always come to a consensus. We're totally okay with that, but sometimes, the people we're talking with aren't.

[Jestina]

You obviously have never played a JRPG if you think they are linear. Go pick up the DW series and early FF games.

[John Epler]

Let's pull this back on topic - talking about what a JRPG is or is not doesn't really relate to DA2.

[aznsoisauce]

JohnEpler wrote...

Let's pull this back on topic - talking about what a JRPG is or is not doesn't really relate to DA2.

And yet, that's exactly what's being argued.

[Fortlowe]

Well the closest I've ever come to a JRPG is Zelda, so I don't have any frame of reference. As far as the topic, one thing that I would like is some kind of dynamic communication between the NPC's during combat. There was some in DA:O but, seeing as we will have enemies attacking from multiple direections in multiple waves, having my war party let me know when an Ogre is crippled but another is coming would be cool. Even cooler would be if they shouted amongst themselves during combat. Like Varric telling Bethany he could use a hand with the giant spider attempting to bite his face off if she could find the time or something.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Personally I thought Origins had a nice look, it just needed to be beefed up on the technical side of things to make the art stand out more. I'm just wondering if DA3 or every DA game in the future gets totally revamped again art style wise? Where does it stop?

When we want it to stop?

Seriously, folks. Are you able to tell they're darkspawn? Yes, you are. Isn't everything beyond that just a lot of hand-wringing? There is no in-game explanation for why the darkspawn look different. The visual style of the game has changed. Period, the end.

So much for continueity   So basically every game, should there be a DA3 we should expect the darkspawn to look completely different just so you can have your art department have something "new" so they don't get bored or something?

Also just out of curiousity do you really need to be so apprehensive anytime someone makes a post that doesn't praise a design decision?

[Withidread]

I'm interested to see the new darkspawn (in game), but at the same time, the design change doesn't seem to be all that big of a deal to me. I think it's partly because there's no blight this go around, so, one assumes that there are other, more pressing, enemies to worry about.



I'd say I'm probably more interested in seeing how the new elf models look than I am the darkspawn models.



Besides, sometimes design changes work out for the best. I mean, Star Trek didn't exactly die off just because someone thought Klingons needed to look more Klingony.

[Mr. Man]

The darkspawn look similar enough to me. Also I like the new look for the Qunari.

[John Epler]

aznsoisauce wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Let's pull this back on topic - talking about what a JRPG is or is not doesn't really relate to DA2.

And yet, that's exactly what's being argued.

Saying 'I think DA2 and a JRPG are similar for these reasons' is related to DA2.

Saying 'I think these are aspects of a JRPG' is not related to DA2.

It's a fine line, but I trust everyone here to walk it.

[Sir JK]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for continueity   So basically every game, should there be a DA3 we should expect the darkspawn to look completely different just so you can have your art department have something "new" so they don't get bored or something?

Also just out of curiousity do you really need to be so apprehensive anytime someone makes a post that doesn't praise a design decision?

But it is just an art upgrade, there is no continueity problem. Just a different way to depict the same thing. They don't look different lorewise, just to us from an outside perspective. There's no more need to reflect on that than it would for characters to comment that a game-series change graphical engines between games. What they depict is still Darkspawn, they are still lured by the old gods and have a compulsion to destroy all life. They are still resembling that they were supposedly corrupted from (actually, they look even more like it now). Beyond the art there is no change at all, and the art is just abstract depiction.
Complaining about it being changed is akin to complaining that Hawke have a better looking face and hair than anyone in DAO and demanding to know why people suddenly look better inexplicably.

Not to mention that the picture is from a rather early stage, with no lightning and effects and completely unmoving. With proper lighting and movement we might all actually find them to be much better and this just being a very unflattering screenshot of them.

EDIT: This comic comes to mind...

Modifié par Sir JK, 26 octobre 2010 - 12:38 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Sir JK wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for continueity   So basically every game, should there be a DA3 we should expect the darkspawn to look completely different just so you can have your art department have something "new" so they don't get bored or something?

Also just out of curiousity do you really need to be so apprehensive anytime someone makes a post that doesn't praise a design decision?

But it is just an art upgrade, there is no continueity problem. Just a different way to depict the same thing. They don't look different lorewise, just to us from an outside perspective. There's no more need to reflect on that than it would for characters to comment that a game-series change graphical engines between games. What they depict is still Darkspawn, they are still lured by the old gods and have a compulsion to destroy all life. They are still resembling that they were supposedly corrupted from (actually, they look even more like it now). Beyond the art there is no change at all, and the art is just abstract depiction.
Complaining about it being changed is akin to complaining that Hawke have a better looking face and hair than anyone in DAO and demanding to know why people suddenly look better inexplicably.

Not to mention that the picture is from a rather early stage, with no lightning and effects and completely unmoving. With proper lighting and movement we might all actually find them to be much better and this just being a very unflattering screenshot of them.

If you can call it an upgrade, I guess, personally, and I'm not the only one judging by this and past threads on the topic think the new darkspawn aren't that great looking. And to be honest? The engine is the same engine, it hasn't changed all that much from what I can tell.

We're less than 5 months from ship, and while I'm sure they may manage another art pass on lighting effects by then (I'm still praying for some DX11 support) To think its going to look all that drastically different, much like thinking the combat is going to be all that drastically different in non exaggerated sections is just being naive at best.

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for continueity   So basically every game, should there be a DA3 we should expect the darkspawn to look completely different just so you can have your art department have something "new" so they don't get bored or something?

I really don't like framing it as an issue of continuity. I think that relates to plot. Maybe we can have a specific concept of artistic continuity? 

I think you'll agree with me that whether we depict darkspawn as we did in DA:O or using a 2D sprite as you might have in BG does not fundamenally change whether or not we are dealing with a darkspawn and their role in a story, which IMO is the appropriate context for continuity.

That's one of my issues with this debate re: art style.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

In Exile wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for continueity   So basically every game, should there be a DA3 we should expect the darkspawn to look completely different just so you can have your art department have something "new" so they don't get bored or something?

I really don't like framing it as an issue of continuity. I think that relates to plot. Maybe we can have a specific concept of artistic continuity? 

I think you'll agree with me that whether we depict darkspawn as we did in DA:O or using a 2D sprite as you might have in BG does not fundamenally change whether or not we are dealing with a darkspawn and their role in a story, which IMO is the appropriate context for continuity.

That's one of my issues with this debate re: art style.

No I agree with you, its just somewhat silly to me to completely change the art style just for the sake of changing the art style. Unless it ends up looking better, which well, thats somewhat debatable at this point.

[Riona45]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

No I agree with you, its just somewhat silly to me to completely change the art style just for the sake of changing the art style.

Of course that implies that they are changing it just to change it, and don't have "good reasons" beyond that.