339 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Karl]

deserk wrote...

Is it just me, or does the entire design look far too much like some utterly cliche and stylized anime crap you would see from some mainstream japanese game developers?

And what about the combat? How can there be anything tactical from combat which works that quick? At the moment it looks like a mindless one-button-spamming hack and slash Dynasty Warriors rip-off. What about about all those combat effects, those flashing blue circles about? Again, ripping off bloody Dynasty Warriors or some other awful fighting system's effects.

And what happened to the Darkspawn? They look ridiculously like some kind ill-designed clown-like Skeletor or some other cartoon villain from the 80s.

I know some people will say "It's not finished", well you can bet that is it is going to be looking something like that, when they are willing to show actual gameplay.

I was honestly much happier about DA2 before seeing that gameplay video. This doesn't even look like a Western RPG, and it bears nothing akin to it's original dark, realistic and relatively earthly style. But this... just loooks wrong and far, far, far too cartoonly/anime stylized.

What's wrong Bioware? Have you flushed out all the good modelers and artists who helped make the great visual atmosphere and world of DA1 or are you trying the seemingly common developer practise of bankruptcy by pushing out originality and creativity, for more money in a market you have no idea about?

My intent is not to mindlessly insult Bioware, because they are definitely my most favourite of all video-game developers, BUT this looks severly different from anything from the DA 2 I was expecting, which is why it's extremely disappointing to see a Dragon Age sequel which looks entirely alien from anything BioWare could have made, and it would be so disappointing to see another good and stand-out company falter to the low-qualities, cliches and bland designs of the absolute conventional and uncaring, money-grinding, creativity-killing video-game companies of today.

You are not alone, I feel almost the same way. However, the last time I tried to pronounce my feelings about the direction DA2 is taking, I only got yelled at. 

[soteria]

The only thing I dislike about them is the spiky armor which I think reads as low-poly, like I'm playing on the lowest graphic settings even if I'm not. But it seems to be a thing in DA2.

Yeah. As others have observed, the Darkspawn I've seen pictures of just look unfinished compared to the pictures I've seen of Hawke. It's a little strange--I think the armor they've shown Hawke in looks great, but the darkspawn look so.... blocky? Cartoony? I assume/hope it's because they just aren't done.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Blastback wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Given that it's the same model that appeared in Origins, I saw no reason to be. After all, most of the concerns have been around the animations, not the sword itself.
Of course, I'm unapologetic about them, too.

So when you're brought into the 4th Circuit Court of Upsettingshorts and charged with two counts - Origins and Awakenings - of 1st degree implimenting silly swords in a video game, you'll plead guilty?

My chief prosecutor will be most pleased.

Thank God for that.  She gets pecky when she's upset. 

*Nurses pecked up arm*

And I was just delivering some legal briefs.

Guilty! I ask the judge for the maximum sentance!

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

You're basically saying you know the consoles are holding the game back from everything it could be on the pc, without actually acknowledging that it's essentially going to be a port

Holding some advanced tech back so it will play on the consoles does not imply its a console port, by which I mean developed entirely on consoles then later ported to PC.

Besides advanced tech like that is usually just high end graphics related, I wouldn't have picked you for a graphics ****. I thought you were all about the hardcore role playing. 

I'm not talking about just graphics. But I think you knew that anyway. 360 is the lead sku no matter how much you stick your fingers in your ears going la la la I don't hear you!. Its much easier to port up than it is to port down. But I guess we should be "lucky" they're making a PC version at all according to Laidlaw. God forbid the portion of the fanbase that made Bioware worth it for EA to aquire,the studio in the first place, gets a specific GUI and a tactical camera for that matter. We're so lucky!

[Sir JK]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
I'm not talking about just graphics. But I think you knew that anyway. 360 is the lead sku no matter how much you stick your fingers in your ears going la la la I don't hear you!. Its much easier to port up than it is to port down. But I guess we should be "lucky" they're making a PC version at all according to Laidlaw. God forbid the portion of the fanbase that made Bioware worth it for EA to aquire,the studio in the first place, gets a specific GUI and a tactical camera for that matter. We're so lucky!

I think it was a case of exaggeration for emphasis. The fact that Bioware is making the effort of creating a pc specific gui, developing a more zoomed out tactical view and such for the PC is a sign that they are definantely not eskewing the PC and abandoning it but rather that they take the extra step of trying to make it as good as it can be for the PC and the consoles. Not that we're "lucky" to get it but as proof that they are not valuing consoles higher. They are going the extra mile to try to make the PC game equally good as the console version, but adapted to the PC rather than the console.

[Icinix]

 Of course BioWare is going to focus some parts specifically for the PC, if they alienate their PC audience, they'll lose all those potential SW:TOR sign ups! 

[Morroian]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I'm not talking about just graphics. But I think you knew that anyway. 360 is the lead sku no matter how much you stick your fingers in your ears going la la la I don't hear you!. Its much easier to port up than it is to port down.

According to the lead developer its being developed across all 3 platforms simultaneously. And the engine is the same as for DAO ie. an engine developed on the PC.

[Cutlasskiwi]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
I'm not talking about just graphics. But I think you knew that anyway. 360 is the lead sku no matter how much you stick your fingers in your ears going la la la I don't hear you!. Its much easier to port up than it is to port down. But I guess we should be "lucky" they're making a PC version at all according to Laidlaw. God forbid the portion of the fanbase that made Bioware worth it for EA to aquire,the studio in the first place, gets a specific GUI and a tactical camera for that matter. We're so lucky!

Yeah, we are lucky. I commend BioWare for taking time and working on PC elements of the game.  And so what if 360 is in the lead? That doesn't mean that they will cater everything for console.

[deserk]

Sir Karl wrote...


You are not alone, I feel almost the same way. However, the last time I tried to pronounce my feelings about the direction DA2 is taking, I only got yelled at. 

That's why I yell back!

But yeah, it seems like this thread has had quite some discussions since my posting of this thread. And now that I look back on it, I think i may have exaggerated, gone a bit overboard as well as poorly written a bit on the thread and  specifically the last paragraph of my post, which I apologize for. However, the basis of all this reaction stems from what is an undoubtably radical shift of art style. It does look like a JRPG as many people have pointed out earlier and it does look like it has a tactless one-button-spamming gameplay. I think that if you just blocked the entire name of Dragon Age from the footage as you watched, there is no way you would think of this game belonging to the Dragon Age franchise. You'd probably think this was another japanese whack-a-hundred-soldiers with lightning-fast slashes for countless hours. That is what it looks like currently. It definitely doesn't look like a spiritual successor of BG2 (which was the basis of DA1, and which made it a great game!), if your eleminating the core elements such as tactical combat and strategic overview option for the camera.

And now that some people say that they focus a lot more PS3 and Xbox consoles, I worry a lot more that it will stay like this until the finished product. I also worry, whether BioWare is trying to move itself for a completely different market than us. And I always think it is the latter assumption is that is the killer-move of a company (definitely it's reputation), when it tries to leave a reliable market for a risky one (Just look at most MMOs and how successful they have been(!)). Also I hear that BioWare is also doing deals with a japanese anime company about making an anime movie based on DA? So, naturally I wonder whether that has some influences with the art style of DA2 and whether the DA2 design devs are consciously pursueing this style to be stylized and japanese-like or not?

But there are some good things I've heard of DA2 so far, and that is the influences of Mass Effect to it. I think it's a great idea to have a main character with a voice, because this provides a lot more feeling and character to it, makes you feel a lot more a part of the story when you have a voice. But I was also hoping that instead of this style of art, couldn't they use a realistic, natural and earthly art style like the Mass Effect franchise? I mean this is supposed to be a Dark Fantasy after all, it shouldn't be so exaggerated and cartoony imo.

I know these aren't the most appreciated things for a developer who's spent months of development upon a product to read about the product, and I deeply respect the fact that Bio Devs actually read and response to the postings people make here. But I still think it's better to speak about the elephant in the room than ignore uncomfortably.

BioWare games have been so good from past to present that it has really held a monopoly on my favourite games, ( my favs are such as BG2, NWN, Mass Effect1&2, Kotor), so I'm not trying to be bashful for spite but honest of my reaction in my own way. I've spoken to many others too who also share a simliar opinion and seen quite a few here who do as well, so I think that this topic is well deserving of it's attention.

Modifié par deserk, 26 octobre 2010 - 05:27 .

[In Exile]

deserk wrote...
However, the basis of all this reaction stems from what is an undoubtably radical shift of art style. It does look like a JRPG as many people have pointed out earlier and it does look like it has a tactless one-button-spamming gameplay. I think that if you just blocked the entire name of Dragon Age from the footage as you watched, there is no way you would think of this game belonging to the Dragon Age franchise. You'd probably think this was another japanese whack-a-hundred-soldiers with lightning-fast slashes for countless hours. That is what it looks like currently.

There is a lot you're claiming here, and I want to unpack that. I will agree that DA2 is a radical departure, from an artistic standpoint, from DA:O. I think this is a positive; I did not like the art-style in DA:O at all. Still, that is not the point-at-issue. There is something more fundamental to what you're saying, and I think that aspect is problematic.

It definitely doesn't look like a spiritual successor of BG2 (which was the basis of DA1, and which made it a great game!), if your eleminating the core elements such as tactical combat and strategic overview option for the camera.

It tears at me whenever I hear this, because I followed the development of DA:O. You know what that game was accused of? Not being the spiritual successor to DA:O. That the fact that it had MMO-like combat, that you could not kill every NPC in game, that we could not create our own party, that NPCs could not speak for the PC, that we had origins which destroyed role-play, all of these were criticisms were levelled at DA:O.

And now that some people say that they focus a lot more PS3 and Xbox consoles, I worry a lot more that it will stay like this until the finished product. I also worry, whether BioWare is trying to move itself for a completely different market than us. And I always think it is the latter assumption is that is the killer-move of a company (definitely it's reputation), when it tries to leave a reliable market for a risky one (Just look at most MMOs and how successful they have been(!)). Also I hear that BioWare is also doing deals with a japanese anime company about making an anime movie based on DA? So, naturally I wonder whether that has some influences with the art style of DA2 and whether the DA2 design devs are consciously pursueing this style to be stylized and japanese-like or not?

Which market is this, though?

There is a tendency on this forum for people to say that Bioware is moving away from their central market. But what is that market? Is it everyone who bought BG and thinks that game is the absolute height of perfection and appreciated DA:O but thought it didn't go far enough to clone BG? People that bought KoTOR and thought that game was perfect and were dissapointed ME failed to live up to it? People that bought JE (they exist)? 

I love the direction Bioware is going in; if they had pushed harder to reproduce BG they would likely have lost me as a "core" consumer. So how can we quantify what the market is?

[Sable Rhapsody]

In Exile wrote...

There is a tendency on this forum for people to say that Bioware is moving away from their central market. But what is that market? Is it everyone who bought BG and thinks that game is the absolute height of perfection and appreciated DA:O but thought it didn't go far enough to clone BG? People that bought KoTOR and thought that game was perfect and were dissapointed ME failed to live up to it? People that bought JE (they exist)? 

I love the direction Bioware is going in; if they had pushed harder to reproduce BG they would likely have lost me as a "core" consumer. So how can we quantify what the market is?

If we're being charitable, the way people use "core" around here seems to refer to folks who in general prefer RPGs either designed for/on PC or well supported for PC.  If we're being uncharitable, "core" seems to refer to the zanies who are absolutely convinced there's a conspiracy directed personally at them by all the evil, nasty console gamers out there and that the very existence of consoles is inimical to their ability to play any game ever on the PC.  I'm going to go for the charitable interpretation here 

Y'all do remember that KOTOR, JE, and the original ME were console titles ported to PC, right?  And outside a few people who are convinced that no video game could ever top BG, people enjoyed those titles too.  (FYI, BG is my favorite video game ever.  I've sunk hundreds of hours into that ****.  But I don't demand that every game I play be identical to it.)

There's nothing wrong with developing a multiplatform game on a particular platform as long as it's well-supported for all platforms.  In fact, that was a problem I had with the original DA:O.  Developed on PC, ported to consoles, and god the UI on the consoles was clunky.  Nowhere near as nice as the PC UI.  I don't care if BioWare develops DA2 on the rear end of an elephant seal so long as the versions on each platform are well-done and suited to the particular platform.

[In Exile]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

If we're being charitable, the way people use "core" around here seems to refer to folks who in general prefer RPGs either designed for/on PC or well supported for PC.  If we're being uncharitable, "core" seems to refer to the zanies who are absolutely convinced there's a conspiracy directed personally at them by all the evil, nasty console gamers out there and that the very existence of consoles is inimical to their ability to play any game ever on the PC.  I'm going to go for the charitable interpretation here 

I know this is what people mean (more or less). My question is, rather, why should we believe that group is the core group? Why isn't the KoTOR or JE or ME crowd the "core" crowd? There is this tendency to believe the general market and the target market are a reflection of a kind of personal worldview, and I don't understand that.

There's nothing wrong with developing a multiplatform game on a particular platform as long as it's well-supported for all platforms.  In fact, that was a problem I had with the original DA:O.  Developed on PC, ported to consoles, and god the UI on the consoles was clunky.  Nowhere near as nice as the PC UI.  I don't care if BioWare develops DA2 on the rear end of an elephant seal so long as the versions on each platform are well-done and suited to the particular platform.

I keep saying this, but whoever does not understand part of the console focus needs to play DA on consoles. The game sucks in comparison! In contrast, the PC essentially needs zero work. If Bioware changes nothing in terms of the UI, controls scheme, etc. for DA2, that would be my fondest wish.

[KristofCoulson]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

Yes, let's stay on topic. Maybe the Devs can explain the whole darkspawn = "I'll get you, He-Man, and your Battlecat, too!" look.

All classes of darkspawn now look like they are afflicted with the same disease, rather than one group mysteriously turning blue, which is nice. As to why some of them wear coifs, I can only assume it's a comfort thing.

I have a query... do darkspawn forge their own armour? I'm sure i recall there being a darkspawn forge master or something in return to ostagar... i guess they're not the mindless beasts i though they were

Anyone else find that the add reply text box only displays text in the top half of it? tis odd!

[TwistedComplex]

David Gaider wrote...


The post I questioned was of the pointless variety (ie. "tell Matt Goldman his darkspawn suck ass"). Sorry, but that sort of person doesn't get to claim "but you're ignoring my opinion!" when they come up with that kind of drivel. Just because those sorts of posts are critical of design decisions doesn't make them any more extra special than posts that are blindly positive -- is there any reason why you get so apprehensive every time someone questions a criticism?

Even though i listed why i thought that and my opinion of how they should change their looks. But yeah, thats was ALL i said. Herp derp. Don't take me out of context or anything, bro

Modifié par TwistedComplex, 27 octobre 2010 - 07:36 .