222 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Ah, you crazy awesome sole survivor of Soldier's Keep. What does the forum do about him?

Personally, I always side with him and send him to continue his research more ethically. True, what he did may be terrible, but the implications are fascinating. He's found a way to stop the progress of the taint, first of all; the Grey Wardens no longer have to pay the price of a shortened lifespan/being turned into a ghoul. He's also found a few ways to weaponize the taint... how far could this go? The possibilities are endless, and I admit that I've gone so far as to wonder if a Grey Warden could be able to command the darkspawn, effectively becoming a human/elf/dwarf archdemon.

So yes, I save him, and my mage Warden intends to become his apprentice after the Blight is over.

[TJPags]

I save him every time.



No way I'm letting some Fade demon free, and so long as Avernus answers to me - and since I'm the Warden Commander, that's forever - he can do ethical research.



He didn't seem happy about what Sophia pushed him into doing in the first place . . . and he seems willing to abide by my rules, so I'm fine with him being alive and working.

[Sarah1281]

You can kill the demon as well, you know. And if Avernus wasn't happy about doing the experiments and being forced into them, why did he continue with them long after Sophia's death? Although he does say, if you tell him to keep doing what he's doing, that he can't really keep up his less moral experiments...for whatever reason. Lack of guinea wardens?

[errant_knight]

I kill him. I don't trust him, and figure he went way, way too far to just say, okay, you might be useful, so all is forgiven.

Modifié par errant_knight, 23 octobre 2010 - 01:40 .

[Reika]

I kill the demon, and Avernus does prove remorseful when you call him an unfeeling bastard or something. So I tell him to continue his research more ethically. He's looking to reduce the effects of the Taint on Wardens. As much as I find him a slimeball, he's a potentially useful slimeball.



But if there had been any hint of him resuming experiments on people, he'd get gutted like a fish.

[TJPags]

errant_knight wrote...

I kill him. I don't trust him, and figure he went way, way too far to just say, okay, you might be useful, so all is forgiven.

He absolutely did go too far.  But my take on it was, he was following Sophia's lead.  She pushed him for the demons, and I felt she pushed him to take the research further than he should have.  After all, how would he have gotten his 'test subjects' if not with her okay?

So I feel, so long as he stays on the side of the line *I* choose, I'm okay with it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@TJPags.

To be fair, he says that he would have summoned the demons whether Sophia ordered it or not. His experiments are another thing however.

[TJPags]

Did he say that?



Hmmm . . .I may need to rethink my position then . . . .

[Reika]

I think his experiments were after Sophia, he only saved wardens that were useful to him and the impression I got is that he did a majority of the experiments after the battles at the Peak.

[errant_knight]

TJPags wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I kill him. I don't trust him, and figure he went way, way too far to just say, okay, you might be useful, so all is forgiven.

He absolutely did go too far.  But my take on it was, he was following Sophia's lead.  She pushed him for the demons, and I felt she pushed him to take the research further than he should have.  After all, how would he have gotten his 'test subjects' if not with her okay?

So I feel, so long as he stays on the side of the line *I* choose, I'm okay with it.

Having the okay of his leader doesn't vindicate him at all, in my books. Even if I thought it did, he kept on doing it long after she was dead, loosing that excuse entirely, for me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

TJPags wrote...

Did he say that?

Hmmm . . .I may need to rethink my position then . . . .

He did if you confront him with it.
And I do remember something about most of his experiments being after the battle, like Reika said.
But I am not sure how much of it and the differences of methods before and after.

He did experiment after the battle though, that's for sure.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 23 octobre 2010 - 01:57 .

[errant_knight]

Reika wrote...

I think his experiments were after Sophia, he only saved wardens that were useful to him and the impression I got is that he did a majority of the experiments after the battles at the Peak.

Good points. The demons may have been at Sophia's instigation, but killing the surviving wardens, I very much doubt that. He basically locked up everyone who survived the siege and tortured them to death.

[Zjarcal]

I leave him alive because he knows how to control the taint. My wardens want to know as well.

For my blood mage he's even more important since I RP that he's the one who teaches her blood magic.

Plus he does show regret about his actions if you persuade him.

[TJPags]

errant_knight wrote...

TJPags wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I kill him. I don't trust him, and figure he went way, way too far to just say, okay, you might be useful, so all is forgiven.

He absolutely did go too far.  But my take on it was, he was following Sophia's lead.  She pushed him for the demons, and I felt she pushed him to take the research further than he should have.  After all, how would he have gotten his 'test subjects' if not with her okay?

So I feel, so long as he stays on the side of the line *I* choose, I'm okay with it.

Having the okay of his leader doesn't vindicate him at all, in my books. Even if I thought it did, he kept on doing it long after she was dead, loosing that excuse entirely, for me.

Him doing it after the battle, I'm not sure I have a problem was.  As I understand it, after the battle, everyone was dead except him.  What else should he have been doing?

@KoP - not sure I've ever confronted him with the demon issue.  As a Grey Warden, honetly, IMO his only fault there was losing control of them.  THAT'S where I think Sophia's pushing comes into play.

[Sarah1281]

@KoP - not sure I've ever confronted him with the demon issue. As a Grey Warden, honetly, IMO his only fault there was losing control of them. THAT'S where I think Sophia's pushing comes into play.

Yeah, didn't the demon in the flashback say he summoned too many to control?

[Reika]

Part of the conversation with Avernus is how he only saved the Wardens that were useful to him. Then in the notes about his experiments he mentions how he used up all of his subjects.

[KnightofPhoenix]

TJPags wrote...
@KoP - not sure I've ever confronted him with the demon issue.  As a Grey Warden, honetly, IMO his only fault there was losing control of them.  THAT'S where I think Sophia's pushing comes into play.

He summoned too much apparently.
Still, he shows no regret about it. Which I don't mind personally. I didn't think it was smart, but that's as far as my opinion went. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 23 octobre 2010 - 02:03 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Reika wrote...

Part of the conversation with Avernus is how he only saved the Wardens that were useful to him. Then in the notes about his experiments he mentions how he used up all of his subjects.

From what I understood, inflicting pain on them was an integral part of the experiment. They were alive, I think.

[Reika]

I could have sworn it was mentioned they all died during it though.

[errant_knight]

TJPags wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

TJPags wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I kill him. I don't trust him, and figure he went way, way too far to just say, okay, you might be useful, so all is forgiven.

He absolutely did go too far.  But my take on it was, he was following Sophia's lead.  She pushed him for the demons, and I felt she pushed him to take the research further than he should have.  After all, how would he have gotten his 'test subjects' if not with her okay?

So I feel, so long as he stays on the side of the line *I* choose, I'm okay with it.

Having the okay of his leader doesn't vindicate him at all, in my books. Even if I thought it did, he kept on doing it long after she was dead, loosing that excuse entirely, for me.

Him doing it after the battle, I'm not sure I have a problem was.  As I understand it, after the battle, everyone was dead except him.  What else should he have been doing?

@KoP - not sure I've ever confronted him with the demon issue.  As a Grey Warden, honetly, IMO his only fault there was losing control of them.  THAT'S where I think Sophia's pushing comes into play.

Nope, he seems to have locked himself in his tower with wardens to experiment on. Then he ran out of subjects much to his chagrin. Even if one tells him to be 'ethical' ant assuming that Avernus knows what that entails, I think the Drydens better watch their backs if Avernus is alive.

[TJPags]

Did he really indicate that he "saved' some wardens after the battle for his experiments?

I kind of thought that part of it had been done BEFORE the battle, with live - perhaps wounded - Wardens, but with Sophia's blessing.



I'm not sure - certainly didn't get the impression - that AFTER the battle, he took wounded Wardens and experimented on them, while letting certain others die . . .

[Sarah1281]

How else do you explain him only saving the Wardens 'useful to him' and the fact that he's the only living Warden left while there are bodies all around the lab clearly tortured to death?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

What's funny is that if you spare him, you lose approval with Wynne and she gets pissy. Even Alistair, the ex-templar, is quite apathetic at sparing him.



It comes down to what character I'm playing, but I usually spare him. I haven't yet played anyone goody goody enough to execute him, but I am planning on such a playthrough for the sake of experience. Summoning demons was pretty stupid, since so far in the game, I'm yet to see it actually work well and end well. Both blood mages who summoned demons (Uldred and Avernus) seemed incapable of commanding even peon-level fiends.



Maybe ferelden mages are simply not competant enough to control them.

[errant_knight]

Well, if it was before the battle he wouldn't have run out of Wardens. Sophia would have to have given them to him--which makes her character more evil by leaps and bounds, and if she was that bad, and in on it with him, she would just have given him more, especially if he was on the verge of a breakthrough as he thought. The only way running out of test subjects makes sense is if it was after the battle

[KnightofPhoenix]

Reika wrote...

I could have sworn it was mentioned they all died during it though.

Yea they died during the experiments. Avernus took it to the very limit and they died.