531 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

I don't think Thane should be "spaced" for his beliefs. I don't agree with them, but then again I wasn't trained and raised since the age of seven to see myself as an object of killing.

I have a hell of a lot of reservations about Samara's Code, but I think I'd like to take a peek at some of the other 5000 sutras before I dismiss it entirely. What I have seen seems pretty harsh.

[Getorex]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

....am I the only one here who likes thane?

No you are not alone. I liked Thane, I just didn't buy the religious part (it was patently ridiculous and indefensible so I kind of let it slide off like water on a duck).

Side note: Thane DOES suck if paired with Garrus on the suicide mission, however. I was never so close to overwhelmed with husks and collectors as I was the one time I did the middle portion of the suicide mission with Garrus and Thane as squadmates.

Thane is cool other than the silly "I was just following orders" religious angle.

Modifié par Getorex, 26 octobre 2010 - 05:57 .

[Getorex]

Nightwriter wrote...

I don't think Thane should be "spaced" for his beliefs. I don't agree with them, but then again I wasn't trained and raised since the age of seven to see myself as an object of killing.

I have a hell of a lot of reservations about Samara's Code, but I think I'd like to take a peek at some of the other 5000 sutras before I dismiss it entirely. What I have seen seems pretty harsh.

I was being facetious on the "space him" statement. What should be spaced is the professed religious tenet(s) he provided. That is a writer thing, not a Thane the Character thing. I was mainly commenting on my inability to take the professed religious nonsense his writers gave him. "I was just following orders" in religious garb.

Modifié par Getorex, 26 octobre 2010 - 06:20 .

[darthbuert]

Mondo47 wrote...

Characters I don't like...

To be honest, there's not that many; I found there were a lot more characters that irritated the hell out of me in Dragon Age than Mass Effect (have I got tired of mentioning how much I absolutely hate that whining manchild Alistair yet, or Morrigan - the know-it-all queen of double-standards and pointless b*tching... errm... no).

None of the principle characters at least got my goat in ME2; the only characters I had any kind of dislike for were Miranda and Kelly, and that has certainly lessened as time has passed (at least in Miranda's case... Kelly will forevermore be someone who feeds Shepard's fish and nothing else). My beef with Miranda was her attitude; her arrogance and aloofness were only trumped by her constant harping about her superiority... oh, you've been tailored to be smarter, fitter, more attractive and longer-lived than any other human, and yet you spend all your time b*tching about it. It's the same reason I hate the oh-woe-is-me-I'll-never-see-another-sunrise variety of vampire in pop culture. Poor you - you're better than everyone else. I understand the dichotomy of having everything and yet wishing for mundanity; of wanting to fit in, be normal, not have to constantly struggle to meet expectations of one as perfect as yourself, it just gets tiresome if you make no effort to be normal other than banging on about how fantastic you are. A lot of people like to make comparisons to Jack there in the sucky attitude department, but frankly I think torture, rape, imprisonment and a desperate existance illicit a lot more sympathy and patience in me than someone who at first comes across as little more than a poor little rich girl who, to steal a metaphore from Joker, acts like she has tenure at F.U.

My sympathy for her was nonexistant - until the LotSB dossiers revealed her to be much more human; a woman with desires and sadnesses I could understand and relate to at last. It made her much more human for the fact she was trying to scratch her itches and was, well, not so superior after all. I could meet her halfway then, and now while I hardly ever use her in-game, I do see the woman underneath the costume (both literal and metaphorical) - one I can understand as another woman and even like a little. That has surprised me a lot.

Characters I really don't like are limited to supporting players. The only one that really makes me squirm is Aria. Yeah, I know, she's very popular, but I can't stand her. I understand that she is obviously a powerful underworld figure, but the entire you-do-as-I-say-here routine just makes me want to storm into Afterlife with the Normandy crew and execute the smirking cow. At the end of the day, Shepard has slain one of the galaxy's secret machine-gods; he's looked Mecha-Cthulhu in the eye and laughed in his steely betentacled chops... and yet I'm supposed to take this "don't f*ck with Aria" shpiel at face value? Yeah, you have a whole bunch of mooks to back you up, sweetheart, but it does not impress me in the slightest... to quote The Juggernaut "do you know who I am?" I'd forgive it all if she was even remotely loveable, humourous or empathic, but I get nothing from her other than a level of irritation I can only compare to cistitis. Someone as long-lived, experienced and cautious as Aria is supposed to be would surely be a lot more careful in her dealings with Shepard - a person that has been places and done things no other human has and even cheated death... for her to be so blase and self-aggrandising strikes me as an attempt to nod to The Matrix's Merovingian; one that fails for me because at least he had the redeeming fact of being funny.

There really wasn't anyone else I disliked; I think the writers on the whole did an outstanding job on both the games. Sure, almost every character has a couple of minor quibbles that people point out, and rightly so, but in all honesty, I think the only character I never liked (and by now probably never will) is Aria... it's obviously down to me, mind you - no more than my opinion, and no intention to stand on anyone's toes.

I'm right with you on this one.

Aria always bugged me. I
don't hate her (Citadel council, specifically the Turian commands that coveted
role - then Udina) but she does seriously annoy me.

I remember the first time I
started up the game and went to Omega. The thought that someone as small and as
far as I knew at the time; insignificant as she was (and obviously not very
physically intimidating, and neither were her men.)...someone who had not faced
all the danger and prevailed that my Shepard had, (safe navigation to Ilos, death,
Reaper Sovereign, countless Geth and Krogan forces, thresher maws,
thorian...and it's many creepers, husks, Saren...) not to mention being an ex-spectre,
would talk to me as crudely as she did was simply unforgivable. I remember
thinking I would love to have some type of interrupt in the conversation to put
her in her place (but it sadly never happens). Instead (even renegade) Shepard
simply takes it up the tailpipe (metaphorically).

You would think that someone
as "worldly" as her would recognize who Shepard was and bestow a
level of respect accordingly, whether renegade or paragon. If renegade, she
wouldn't be able to survive against renegade Shepard if provoked into a battle.
If paragon, she should have known that no such treatment was necessary as Shep
was most assuredly an honorable man/woman, and even so...she still wouldn't
have any hope of defeating him/her. Shepard's whole demeanor screams B.M.F.

To
my knowledge mob-bosses normally display a certain level of respect, especially
to others with whom hold positions of power, or those perceived as being equal in power
in other factions or families (as it gives them an air of self-control in all
situations - and helps to diffuse possible future bloody family wars) but with
Aria, I saw it strangely lacking. This bugges me to no end. I'm still not too crazy about her for this reason.

[Getorex]

darthbuert wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Characters I don't like...

...

Characters I really don't like are limited to supporting players. The only one that really makes me squirm is Aria. Yeah, I know, she's very popular, but I can't stand her. I understand that she is obviously a powerful underworld figure, but the entire you-do-as-I-say-here routine just makes me want to storm into Afterlife with the Normandy crew and execute the smirking cow. At the end of the day, Shepard has slain one of the galaxy's secret machine-gods; he's looked Mecha-Cthulhu in the eye and laughed in his steely betentacled chops... and yet I'm supposed to take this "don't f*ck with Aria" shpiel at face value? Yeah, you have a whole bunch of mooks to back you up, sweetheart, but it does not impress me in the slightest... to quote The Juggernaut "do you know who I am?" I'd forgive it all if she was even remotely loveable, humourous or empathic, but I get nothing from her other than a level of irritation I can only compare to cistitis. Someone as long-lived, experienced and cautious as Aria is supposed to be would surely be a lot more careful in her dealings with Shepard - a person that has been places and done things no other human has and even cheated death... for her to be so blase and self-aggrandising strikes me as an attempt to nod to The Matrix's Merovingian; one that fails for me because at least he had the redeeming fact of being funny.

There really wasn't anyone else I disliked; I think the writers on the whole did an outstanding job on both the games. Sure, almost every character has a couple of minor quibbles that people point out, and rightly so, but in all honesty, I think the only character I never liked (and by now probably never will) is Aria... it's obviously down to me, mind you - no more than my opinion, and no intention to stand on anyone's toes.

I'm right with you on this one.

Aria always bugged me. I
don't hate her (Citadel council, specifically the Turian commands that coveted
role - then Udina) but she does seriously annoy me.

I remember the first time I
started up the game and went to Omega. The thought that someone as small and as
far as I knew at the time; insignificant as she was (and obviously not very
physically intimidating, and neither were her men.)...someone who had not faced
all the danger and prevailed that my Shepard had, (safe navigation to Ilos, death,
Reaper Sovereign, countless Geth and Krogan forces, thresher maws,
thorian...and it's many creepers, husks, Saren...) not to mention being an ex-spectre,
would talk to me as crudely as she did was simply unforgivable. I remember
thinking I would love to have some type of interrupt in the conversation to put
her in her place (but it sadly never happens). Instead (even renegade) Shepard
simply takes it up the tailpipe (metaphorically).

I liked Aria but do agree with the attitude being out of place given that she is SUPPOSED to know who Shepard is. That said, I took it (had to under the circumstances) that Shepard was simply patronizing her. "Oooo. Big tough chick. OK, I'll play along and get what I want." Knowing all along that if she or her dorks did anything silly they'd be hamburger helper.

[achwas]

Shavon wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

....am I the only one here who likes thane?

Oh, not at all.  Don't know why Thane could be hated, either. never read a good enough reason for it.  Well, except the solopsism.  

Oh nevermind that he is a professional assassin for hire, who has killed countless people because he felt a moral obligation to the ever-so-peaceful and consensual Hanar for saving part of his race ? With no real qualms about it, because only his backers carry the blam, right ? Did it never occur to himwhether to refuse an assignment might be the right thing to do ?  And the rest of the background in the veins of  your average teenage-romantic-horror-vampire doesn't help to add any depth or likability either....

So what are his strong suits that make him sympathetic ?
Oh and yes he's is doomed to die within a year, which is soooooo tragic, right ? Unless yof course you are not really looking for a longterm relationship with your fem-shep, that is, then it is in fact rather convenient

And ......he has read a classic !

Shallow. Sad. Pathetic.

The best thing he does is his Normandy upgrade which makes planet-scanning slightly less.... nerve-abrading^^

With so many "lone gunman with a conscience" movies, books and even games around in the last two decades, why couldn't the devs  come up with something less whimpy, nevermind something truly nice and original ?

Still feel a crush for him ?

Modifié par achwas, 26 octobre 2010 - 06:30 .

[Raokin]

achwas wrote...
I have to admit I never romanced him ingame because I found the dialog option to initiate extremely rude and insensitive. Straight from his dead wife to getting into his ... ahem...pants....

BUT

His entire life "bred for his role, owes fealty due to an inherited moral debtm loves a sweet innocent and gentle entity which gets taken from him far too early by outside forces, alienated from his offspring, seeks to redeem himself in the autumn days of his life"   is....... utterly a staple of bland and mediocre fantasy, roamntic horror  and space opera.
It has been done dozens of times in the last decade alone, yet every year another crop of "the assassin who redeems himself" books/triology gets published, whether as pulp, romantic fiction or fantasy adventure.

Sorry, it's the equivalent of the "suffering vampire" or the "feisty and under-estimated kitchen help saving the realm".
And there is neither a good or at least innovative twist to this tired story, nor is it implemented well-enough to be entertaining despite being clichee. Say, like Smara's loyalty mission with the archetypal "female vampiric predator stalked by the upright and pure relation" who feels responsible for the predator's actions. There we have the interesting warming up to Morinth actions, and the cute twist that we can actually get away with recruiting the "evil" predator instead.

Hence that's why I find Thane's "crime story" LM rather lacking, same as his "I want to redeem myself" motivation or his backstory. of course, YMMV

I asked how he lacked depth and motivation; you've just explained why you thought his story was cliché.  His story doesn't lack either of those elements, you just don't like how they were handled. So perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote earlier.

I don't entirely disagree with the notion that his story is a little cliché, but what I like about him isn't primarily his story, but rather his personality. I guess it all comes down to a matter of taste. Thane is interesting to me because he comes off as a very deep person, on an emotional, intellectual and spiritual level.  I can relate to some of his inner struggles, so I tend to gravitate towards him.  And, as you said earlier, the voice acting for Thane was really phenomenal and it made me enjoy the conversations with him all the more.

Also, I agree about that prompt that initiates the romance, but it comes out sounding much better. Those are so often very misleading.
 

achwas wrote...
The romance angle (as gathered from youtube) is about as deep, authentic and believable as "Twilight" There is of course the small mercy that Thane  does not "sparkle".

I've never read "Twilight" (Thank God) so I wouldn't be able to compare.

I don't see how Thane's romance is any less believable or authentic than others in the game. None of them can be horribly realistic considering the fact that you don't get many conversations. But then, Thane doesn't have much time left to slowly build a relationship, none of them do, considering the fact that they're all headed for a supposedly suicidal mission.

And I think Thane's romance has plenty of depth. Shepard is the only person who has been there for him, to listen to his problems, in 10 years. She's the first person he's opened himself up to emotionally, the first person to express that she cares about him and his well-being, after he had lost hope and resigned himself to nothing but loneliness and penitence until his death. She's given him a reason to live at the last moment and he is afraid of losing her. You really see no depth in that story? It's a good one, a very moving one, in my opinion, even if it has been done before.

If you're going to criticize a romance for its lack of depth, I'm amazed you didn't pick one of the many options that start off as obvious booty calls.

Modifié par Raokin, 26 octobre 2010 - 06:29 .

[Raokin]

achwas wrote...
And ......he has read a classic !

Shallow. Sad. Pathetic.

It's pathetic that he's well read? And by the way...I saw that edit. It was Hobbes, not Milton.

If there's one thing that Thane isn't it's shallow.

Modifié par Raokin, 26 octobre 2010 - 06:52 .

[achwas]

Raokin wrote...

I asked how he lacked depth and motivation; you've just explained why you thought his story was cliché.  His story doesn't lack either of those elements, you just don't like how they were handled. So perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote earlier.

I don't entirely disagree with the notion that his story is a little cliché, but what I like about him isn't primarily his story, but rather his personality. I guess it all comes down to a matter of taste. Thane is interesting to me because he comes off as a very deep person, on an emotional, intellectual and spiritual level.  I can relate to some of his inner struggles, so I tend to gravitate towards him.  And, as you said earlier, the voice acting for Thane was really phenomenal and it made me enjoy the conversations with him all the more.

Also, I agree about that prompt that initiates the romance, but it comes out sounding much better. Those are so often very misleading.
 
-------------


I've never read "Twilight" (Thank God) so I wouldn't be able to compare.

I don't see how Thane's romance is any less believable or authentic than others in the game. None of them can be horribly realistic considering the fact that you don't get many conversations. But then, Thane doesn't have much time left to slowly build a relationship, none of them do, considering the fact that they're all headed for a supposedly suicidal mission.

And I think Thane's romance has plenty of depth. Shepard is the only person who has been there for him, to listen to his problems, in 10 years. She's the first person he's opened himself up to emotionally, the first person to express that she cares about him and his well-being, after he had lost hope and resigned himself to nothing but loneliness and penitence until his death. She's given him a reason to live at the last moment and he is afraid of losing her. You really see no depth in that story? It's a good one, a very moving one, in my opinion, even if it has been done before.

If you're going to criticize a romance for its lack of depth, I'm amazed you didn't pick one of the many options that start off as obvious booty calls.

Ok, short`(-ish)  answer.
"Lack of Depth" to me is, the entirity of a character being filled with tired, oft-repeated and sickly sweet standards, which one can predict with a checklist from a mile off. unbroken by any distinctive marks setting him apart from hundred of doomed heroes who have graced romantic fiction.... "Lack of Depth" to me is, there being  nothing truly, or even remotely original in the story or the way of telling !  It is  the motivations, reflections and experiences being just basic cut-outs from the "character development 101" course at community college !
What precisely is complicated or intricately conceived, with layers of interlocked and causally linked, interwoven connections and dependencies in Thane's background ? 
The core of him, the entire rationalization of  his career  is inconsistent to begin with - he either is very alien in his causalistic separation of responsibility and guilt over his deeds  - a mindset which incidentally makes it even less rational for Thane to ever seek forgiveness, as there is nothing to forgive in the first place, since he never was to blame, by his own stated believes - or he is a sociopath who suddenly seeks redemption for everything he did with his life, and continues to do exactly the same as before - instead of ... say... making amends by resolving conflicts in a non-violent way ? Swearing off violence and assuming responsibility for one's actions ? Even bringing to justice those who actually hired him  - like the Hanar ?
No, he simply carries on, minus payments (how noble, killing people without reimbursement is so much more noble...)  , while loudly pro-claiming" I only kill the BAD guys/gals now !"... that's...deep ! Intense even....

Maybe someone should have taken a good look at Shepperd Book in "Firefly" for just how honest repentance, for spiritual reasons, may be implemented without loss of belief in an action-themed setting.


And the entire "love in my final moments" is trite and told with even more terribly clichees. One of the oldest and most worn out stories ever, and heavily abused by commercial writers in the last two centuries, nevermind before that.  Told badly, as well. The only thing they left out was the sunsets and some violin-dominated musical score. Oh and an unsavoury guy threatening the love-interest, unless the Reapers are meant to fill that gap

If that's what EDIT : someone likes, I cannot help it, and its really no business of mine but...  it's very pulpy fiction to me, with a sickening degree of saccharine.
Edited to remove an unnecessary slight.

Modifié par achwas, 26 octobre 2010 - 07:31 .

[achwas]

Raokin wrote...

achwas wrote...
And ......he has read a classic !

Shallow. Sad. Pathetic.

It's pathetic that he's well read? And by the way...I saw that edit. It was Hobbes, not Milton.

If there's one thing that Thane isn't it's shallow.

Yeah, had my mind target-locked on "Paradise Lost", then remembered the quote actually being something different than what I recalled.

And I find the narrative device of having the tragic anti-hero quoting some classic work by a renowned author to show his erudite mind pretty overused as well. If I write bad fan-fiction (cthulhu keep me from doing so !) and have my protagonist quote Goethe, Ibsen, Dante or Hobbes, that doesn't make him/her any less shallow or blind to himself. Especially if said protagonist obviously has not understood the message of the quotation or taken it to heart.

Thane mourning the self-destruction of the Drell by their own hand in an orgy of violence, and taking up a life of violence to _serve_ his saviours from stated fate shows he hasn't understood Hobbes at all.
He is just posing... much like Morinth in another LM.

But if you like it, I will readily buy you dinner and quote some classics for you

Modifié par achwas, 26 octobre 2010 - 07:18 .

[RPGmom28]

Shavon wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

....am I the only one here who likes thane?

Oh, not at all.  Don't know why Thane could be hated, either. never read a good enough reason for it.  Well, except the solopsism.  

I like Thane just fine.  Shockingly enough, I even like the alternate appearance pack outfit and put that on him most of the time.

[Raokin]

achwas wrote...

[Ok, short`(-ish) answer.

"Lack of Depth" to me is, the entirity of a character being filled with tired, oft-repeated and sickly sweet standards, which one can predict with a checklist from a mile off. unbroken by any distinctive marks setting him apart from hundred of doomed heroes who have graced romantic fiction.... "Lack of Depth" to me is, there being nothing truly, or even remotely original in the story or the way of telling ! It is the motivations, reflections and experiences being just basic cut-outs from the "character development 101" course at community college !

We clearly place value in different aspects of a character. I do not care as much about Thane's background or the way his story is presented as I do about the sense I get from his personality as revealed through conversations.

I understand how you could be put off by the story being too cliche. I personally am not familiar with any of these stereotypical stories or characters which you claim precede Thane (or at least he doesn't bring anything to mind for me), so everything about him was fairly new and unexpected.

achwas wrote...
What precisely is complicated or intricately conceived, with layers of interlocked and causally linked, interwoven connections and dependencies in Thane's background ?

I never claimed that Thane's background was deep. That reference was made with regards to his personality. He strikes me as a deep thinker, someone who appreciates the beauty in art, spirituality, life and literature. I like that about him. He's got that whole tortured soul thing going on: a sense of loneliness mixed with a bit of darkness and a poetic outlook on life.

Call it cliche if you will (and I know you will).

achwas wrote...

The core of him, the entire rationalization of his career is inconsistent to begin with - he either is very alien in his causalistic separation of responsibility and guilt over his deeds - a mindset which incidentally makes it even less rational for Thane to ever seek forgiveness, as there is nothing to forgive in the first place, since he never was to blame, by his own stated believes - or he is a sociopath who suddenly seeks redemption for everything he did with his life, and continues to do exactly the same as before - instead of ... say... making amends by resolving conflicts in a non-violent way ? Swearing off violence and assuming responsibility for one's actions ? Even bringing to justice those who actually hired him - like the Hanar ?.

I honestly can't disagree with you here. I was a little unconvinced the first time I heard the "my body is merely a vessel" justification. I wish they had explained that a little bit more than just by having him say "drell minds are different from humans'". This is one of the reasons why I wish there were more drell in the game, as well as a primary codex entry about them.

achwas wrote...And the entire "love in my final moments" is trite and told with even more terribly clichees. One of the oldest and most worn out stories ever, and heavily abused by commercial writers in the last two centuries, nevermind before that. Told badly, as well. The only thing they left out was the sunsets and some violin-dominated musical score. Oh and an unsavoury guy threatening the love-interest, unless the Reapers are meant to fill that gap

If that's what you like, I cannot help it, and its really no business of mine but... it's very pulpy fiction to me, with a sickening degree of saccharine.

It's not so much the fact that he's dying that makes him tragic to me, but rather his loneliness-- the
fact that he was prepared to die alone. The man had spent a good 10 years of his life friendless, in near solitude, and probably more if you count the years before he met Irikah. The imminence of his death does play a role in how Thane was characterized, but that's not what defines his romance or character to me. He has a great deal of emotional issues and pain that he'd been holding in, unable to express to anyone for so long. It's the fact that he finally has someone to confide in, to care for him after such a long period of hopelessness that makes the romance meaningful to me.

I think that as long as a significant amount of people can connect emotionally to a certain type of situation or character in literature, movies, etc., if they still have relevance and meaning to us and our lives, then they are worth reusing and fail to become mere clichés.

Modifié par Raokin, 26 octobre 2010 - 08:35 .

[Getorex]

Raokin wrote...

achwas wrote...

[Ok, short`(-ish) answer.

"Lack of Depth" to me is, the entirity of a character being filled with tired, oft-repeated and sickly sweet standards, which one can predict with a checklist from a mile off. unbroken by any distinctive marks setting him apart from hundred of doomed heroes who have graced romantic fiction.... "Lack of Depth" to me is, there being nothing truly, or even remotely original in the story or the way of telling ! It is the motivations, reflections and experiences being just basic cut-outs from the "character development 101" course at community college !

We clearly place value in different aspects of a character. I do not care as much about Thane's background or the way his story is presented as I do about the sense I get from his personality as revealed through conversations.

I understand how you could be put off by the story being too cliche. I personally am not familiar with any of these stereotypical stories or characters which you claim precede Thane (or at least he doesn't bring anything to mind for me), so everything about him was fairly new and unexpected.

achwas wrote...
What precisely is complicated or intricately conceived, with layers of interlocked and causally linked, interwoven connections and dependencies in Thane's background ?

I never claimed that Thane's background was deep. That reference was made with regards to his personality. He strikes me as a deep thinker, someone who appreciates the beauty in art, spirituality, life and literature. I like that about him. He's got that whole tortured soul thing going on: a sense of loneliness mixed with a bit of darkness and a poetic outlook on life.

Call it cliche if you will (and I know you will).

achwas wrote...

The core of him, the entire rationalization of his career is inconsistent to begin with - he either is very alien in his causalistic separation of responsibility and guilt over his deeds - a mindset which incidentally makes it even less rational for Thane to ever seek forgiveness, as there is nothing to forgive in the first place, since he never was to blame, by his own stated believes - or he is a sociopath who suddenly seeks redemption for everything he did with his life, and continues to do exactly the same as before - instead of ... say... making amends by resolving conflicts in a non-violent way ? Swearing off violence and assuming responsibility for one's actions ? Even bringing to justice those who actually hired him - like the Hanar ?.

I honestly can't disagree with you here. I was a little unconvinced the first time I heard the "my body is merely a vessel" justification. I wish they had explained that a little bit more than just by having him say "drell minds are different from humans'". This is one of the reasons why I wish there were more drell in the game, as well as a primary codex entry about them.

That's an easy one to explain in depth with a short clarifying sentence:

I was just following orders.

There. Explained in full.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

achwas wrote...

Shavon wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

....am I the only one here who likes thane?

Oh, not at all.  Don't know why Thane could be hated, either. never read a good enough reason for it.  Well, except the solopsism.  

Oh nevermind that he is a professional assassin for hire, who has killed countless people because he felt a moral obligation to the ever-so-peaceful and consensual Hanar for saving part of his race ? With no real qualms about it, because only his backers carry the blam, right ? Did it never occur to himwhether to refuse an assignment might be the right thing to do ?  And the rest of the background in the veins of  your average teenage-romantic-horror-vampire doesn't help to add any depth or likability either....

So what are his strong suits that make him sympathetic ?
Oh and yes he's is doomed to die within a year, which is soooooo tragic, right ? Unless yof course you are not really looking for a longterm relationship with your fem-shep, that is, then it is in fact rather convenient

And ......he has read a classic !

Shallow. Sad. Pathetic.

The best thing he does is his Normandy upgrade which makes planet-scanning slightly less.... nerve-abrading^^

With so many "lone gunman with a conscience" movies, books and even games around in the last two decades, why couldn't the devs  come up with something less whimpy, nevermind something truly nice and original ?

Still feel a crush for him ?

Oh yes, character bashing will definitely change my perspective on thane. Thank you sir.

[Getorex]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

achwas wrote...

Shavon wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

....am I the only one here who likes thane?

Oh, not at all.  Don't know why Thane could be hated, either. never read a good enough reason for it.  Well, except the solopsism.  

Oh nevermind that he is a professional assassin for hire, who has killed countless people because he felt a moral obligation to the ever-so-peaceful and consensual Hanar for saving part of his race ? With no real qualms about it, because only his backers carry the blam, right ? Did it never occur to himwhether to refuse an assignment might be the right thing to do ?  And the rest of the background in the veins of  your average teenage-romantic-horror-vampire doesn't help to add any depth or likability either....

So what are his strong suits that make him sympathetic ?
Oh and yes he's is doomed to die within a year, which is soooooo tragic, right ? Unless yof course you are not really looking for a longterm relationship with your fem-shep, that is, then it is in fact rather convenient

And ......he has read a classic !

Shallow. Sad. Pathetic.

The best thing he does is his Normandy upgrade which makes planet-scanning slightly less.... nerve-abrading^^

With so many "lone gunman with a conscience" movies, books and even games around in the last two decades, why couldn't the devs  come up with something less whimpy, nevermind something truly nice and original ?

Still feel a crush for him ?

Oh yes, character bashing will definitely change my perspective on thane. Thank you sir.

It's a valid criticism. I had to essentially ignore all that crap to eliminate the clear cognitive dissonance of the situation. I liked him because I could take the justifications/religion stuff he presented and flush it away with a "meh" and go with "Cool look, cool voice, cool mannerisms and some cool aspects to the character. Ok, he's in. We'll pretend he didn't go on with all that 'drell minds are different' schtick and 'my body is just a vessel' crap."

If you want a self-consistent and believable tortured assassin turned (or turning) good, go with Jason Bourne or Nikita in "La Femme Nikita" (the original french version, not the 'merikan version)..

Modifié par Getorex, 26 octobre 2010 - 08:56 .

[Christmas Ape]

Thane presents a few interesting philosophical concepts, in much the same way as A House Divided, which plays him directly into some of Mass Effect's overarching themes; most notably self-determination, responsibility, and consequence (all of which are all over nearly everything). In this regard, I like his inclusion.



But in the interests of full disclosure, "He's a tortured soul" makes me vomit in my mouth a little.

[Raokin]

Full disclosure was not appreciated <_<

[Collider]

I think people can get the most out of this thread by just reading the criticisms and not getting too annoyed if you disagree with someone. It's interesting to see different perspectives, even I feel some of  them are ill-researched.

Modifié par Collider, 26 octobre 2010 - 09:06 .

[Christmas Ape]

Raokin wrote...

Full disclosure was not appreciated <_<

Aww, muffin. If you're not sick of that archetype you missed the 90s completely.

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 26 octobre 2010 - 09:08 .

[CalJones]

The only problem I have with Thane is that he is yet another romanceable character with a dead wife and a child in trouble (see also Carth Onassi, KotOR & Sky, JE). Aside from that, he's a fairly cool customer. I don't love him, but I like him enough. I'd rather hang out with Garrus, though, all things considered.

I don't hate any of the ME2 crew, even Miranda (granted, she's annoying, at times, but she has layers. Well, her clothes could do with more layers, actually, but you know what I mean). Jacob is the most boring and the only one I've not bothered romancing. Miranda might come off as a hard and difficult woman to like, but I found Jacob quite unfriendly at first. He'll talk, but there's something cold about his manner, especially when he says "I'm not big on these talks." It just feels like a big eff off. At least the others just say they're busy with their duties if they have nothing to say to you at that point.

In ME1 I wasn't keen on Liara but I liked her in LotSB.

[Ryzaki]

The only problem I have with Thane is that he is yet another romanceable character with a dead wife and a child in trouble (see also Carth Onassi, KotOR & Sky, JE). Aside from that, he's a fairly cool customer. I don't love him, but I like him enough. I'd rather hang out with Garrus, though, all things considered.

It's called the Carth syndrome.



...And it's way too common in BW games.

[CalJones]

It even exists to a certain extent with Jaheira in BGII. At least there were no kids involved in that.

I'm just not keen on trying to replace someone's dead spouse. And in Thane's case, he's going to die soon anyway, so it seems a bit selfish, really.

[Nightwriter]

Mondo, I'm curious (and I really hope we can have a civil Jack/Miranda discussion here, I hate Jack/Miranda arguments) what made Miranda come across as a poor me, poor me character, but not Jack?

I'll be honest, I agree Miranda complains about her past a few times. But so does Jack. I'd even say Jack glorifies her pain more than Miranda, though that hardly seems inappropriate because imo she suffered more.

People's general response to this seems to be:

1. Miranda has this "perfect" thing going on, which makes her more hatable than Jack. Complaining about perfection is worse than complaining about past suffering.

2. The reality and the trauma of Jack's past is more readily apparent. She's more sympathetic.

3. Miranda is - believe it or not, I hear this a lot - more mature than Jack, so Jack's "whining" (and I hate that word) is more okay.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:10 .