531 réponses à ce sujet

[kaimanaMM]

Lizardviking wrote...

Or some people might just not like Thane?

Which is totally okay.  

But don't put words in the character's mouth and claim that is why you dislike said character. 

[Juliaxo]

He quoted Hobbes once. Is it really that big a deal? To me it was no different than say, Ash reciting poetry. My first thought in either case was not "Oh, what an elitist poser. How dare this person quote things at me!"

kaimanaMM wrote...

Thane does not say he feels the guilt of every kill.  He says : 

"In perfect detail.  Every mistake I've made, every target's last breath."

I thought not. Thanks for taking the time to look that up.

[achwas]

mashavasilec wrote...
who said it was used to show depth? it is your own conclusion, not necessarily the right one

also as Shavon pointed above, it was more likely a way to speak on the same terms with Shepard, 'cause quoting drell philosophers wouldn't be much effective in that matter. of course it's very convenient to just dismiss every claim pointing otherwise, this is understandable, though sad and pathetic indeed

anyway, no other character will ever compare in depth with Legion, i get it

go on

The concluison wasn't mine, but was put up in defense of the depth of Thane. I disagreed with that, or rather with the device used to demonstrate said depth.

Then again, having had to read Hobbes, I also found the way they used the quotation... funny.

And no, Legion is not the deepest of the charcters in ME-2. He is certainly part of an interesting "coming to the ME-universe" conflict on how the Quarians will finally deal with the loss of their homeworld.
But, nope he is not deep in the emotional department. How could he be with, the Geth as a race only a mere 300 years old and while they start to show oddly irrational traits, not being victim to chemical processes in ther mental makeup... less confusion,. but also less sensitivity to nuances of perspective, I guess. no sorry no way^^

Looking for depth ... Mordin ? Garrus has a lot of background by now, but it's at times stifflingly vigilant-ish. Liara might qualify, too

Modifié par achwas, 28 octobre 2010 - 05:15 .

[Reaper27]

Rael'Zorah - I think this guy was an absolute monster. I find it very frustrating that I can't reveal him for what he was without failing the mission. At least he got what was coming to him.

Tali'Zorah - The majority of the time I'm okay with Tali but her views on the geth bother me. Her fangirl thing with male Shepard is also quite irritating.

Gavin Archer - Really sick guy to do that to his brother. I wish there was an option to shoot him. Repeatedly.

[Wiggs Magee]

I disliked Miranda alot. 1 she is cold hearted b**ch. 2 to me she looks like those models who completly change their look and to me they end up looking uglier. 3 she is just a Morrigan in space, with even more ****ty original outfitting, i mean how does the latex suit help anyone?
I disliked Jack because she 'attempted' to be a 'hardcore rebel' who swear every 2 seconds were little clothles and to me when she gets angry it looks like she is constipated.
Garrus is a sad story, a brilliant character in the first brought low by some of the worst writing i've ever encountered you get three lines of dialouge then the dreaded calabrating.
With Legion is was immensly surpised that could not mention giving the quarians homeworld back.
And Harbringer jesus christ during the collector shooting parts i muted the TV with the dozens of , i know you feel this! and take him alive! right before collectors start shooting you.

Modifié par Wiggs Magee, 28 octobre 2010 - 06:35 .

[PrinceLionheart]

Reaper27 wrote...

Tali'Zorah - The majority of the time I'm okay with Tali but her views on the geth bother me. Her fangirl thing with male Shepard is also quite irritating.

I like Tali, but I agree. I have a hard time sympathizing with the Quarian plight throughout the game.

[cannedcream]

I think my least favorite character will have to be Jacob. I don't hate the guy in any way, but everything about him is just so.... 'meh' that I can't bring myself to care.



His dialog and voice acting are okay, his loyalty mission is a bit dull, and I never need him in my party (as much as I lot the biotics, they're useless on the harder difficulties). Now that I have the Kasumi and Zaeed DLC, I only use Jacob for that first mission when you have no other choice. Other wise I just completely ignore him.

[Sable Rhapsody]

cannedcream wrote...

I think my least favorite character will have to be Jacob. I don't hate the guy in any way, but everything about him is just so.... 'meh' that I can't bring myself to care.

His dialog and voice acting are okay, his loyalty mission is a bit dull, and I never need him in my party (as much as I lot the biotics, they're useless on the harder difficulties). Now that I have the Kasumi and Zaeed DLC, I only use Jacob for that first mission when you have no other choice. Other wise I just completely ignore him.

You know, other than his loyalty mission (you really found creepy brainwash-and-rape island dull??), I completely agreed--for my first playthrough, at least.  I generally ignored Jacob and found him pretty meh.  But my second playthrough, I noticed how utterly dysfunctional your other party members are.  They're all riddled with issues.  Parent issues, anger issues, guilt issues, blah blah.  Except Jacob, who handles his dad thing like a trooper before quickly getting over it, and is clearly the most stable of your lot.  Even the Shadow Broker says as much.  So he really grew on me the second time around by virtue of being nice and reasonable and NOT INSANE.

[Christmas Ape]

mrsph wrote...
Legion deep?

Okay, I admit that Legion is one of my favorites, but there is no way he is the deepest character when he hardly even gets any real character development.

That's because he's busy being character development for his entire species.

[achwas]

Christmas Ape wrote...

mrsph wrote...
Legion deep?

Okay, I admit that Legion is one of my favorites, but there is no way he is the deepest character when he hardly even gets any real character development.

That's because he's busy being character development for his entire species.

At least for the 1000 Geth-programms running on his platform. He is more of an interesting commune than a "single character"

[Louis_Cypher]

 I'd make a distinction between "don't like as people" and "don't like as characters".

Morinth, for example, is an unrepentant murderer, and adds insult to injury by being kind of a poser, too.  But as a character, I think she works well; she's primarily and antagonist, and it's always a pleasure to go "Surprise!" and take her out (though they missed a perfect opportunity for a headbutt, there).

Character-wise, I'm not really a fan of Jacob.  He's boring, and Fem-Shep is basically forced to be flirty with him, despite him not expressing any interest.  His loyalty mission is interesting (thermal clip plothole notwithstanding), but it doesn't improve Jacob as a character.  Still boring, expression of outrage at rapist-dad you always hated anyway, let's go grab a drink at the Citadel once this is over.  Also, his association with the Cerberus railroad plot is annoying, and his animations bug me for some reason.

Getorex wrote...
Show of hands...who wants a chance to "romance" a volus, a varren, a rachni, a krogan, or a mech? Those who actually raise your hands, female player and/or fem Shep? This is a scientific study so be honest. :-)

I don't know about a volus, but that may be simply because we haven't met a sympathetic one, yet.  Varren are non-sapient (though Urz certainly gets cuddles), and rachni don't make sense for the same reason salarians don't.  If Legion counts as a mech, I would totally hit that, though.  And I'm not gonna rule out Wrex.

More seriously, I think part of the reason is a lack of good human LIs.  See above for what I think of Jacob, though Kaiden is OK.

[Christmas Ape]

achwas wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

mrsph wrote...
Legion deep?
Okay, I admit that Legion is one of my favorites, but there is no way he is the deepest character when he hardly even gets any real character development.

That's because he's busy being character development for his entire species.

At least for the 1000 Geth-programms running on his platform. He is more of an interesting commune than a "single character"

And what happens when those 1,138 geth return to the core network? They've experienced individuality, irrational consensus, and other new experiences - which they will bring back to their FTL network in which there are no secrets.
One geth is all geth.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Louis_Cypher wrote...

More seriously, I think part of the reason is a lack of good human LIs.  See above for what I think of Jacob, though Kaiden is OK.

I think it's just that the human male LIs don't stand out as much.  Kaidan and Jacob are space marines.  In a game full of...space marines.  

Then there's Nihlus the veteran Spectre, Thane the master assassin, Wrex the badass krogan battlemaster, Garrus the cowboy cop turned TURIAN SPACE BATMAN...yeah.  Honestly, the only majir male human characters I can think of who get badass to match the alien guys are Anderson (who is old), TIM (who you never talk to in person), and poor Joker with his creaky legs.  Sad days.

[achwas]

Christmas Ape wrote...

achwas wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

mrsph wrote...
Legion deep?
Okay, I admit that Legion is one of my favorites, but there is no way he is the deepest character when he hardly even gets any real character development.

That's because he's busy being character development for his entire species.

At least for the 1000 Geth-programms running on his platform. He is more of an interesting commune than a "single character"

And what happens when those 1,138 geth return to the core network? They've experienced individuality, irrational consensus, and other new experiences - which they will bring back to their FTL network in which there are no secrets.
One geth is all geth.

Maybe. Then again, the consensus of the other millions of Geths might drown them out and subsumes them into the fold again.
Or perhaps, there will be another shism similar to the one with the heretics.  ME-3 may tell.
As for "no secrets with the Geth"- the heretics faction kept secrets from the orthodox Geth, and had the impression at least taht the situation was similar on the other side - hence their need for spying on their brothers.

I haven't got the impression yet that "geth-hive-mind" and "personality + emotions" mix all that well.

....and we are probably steering "off-topic" here :innocent:

Modifié par achwas, 29 octobre 2010 - 11:42 .

[achwas]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Then there's Nihlus the veteran Spectre, Thane the master assassin, Wrex the badass krogan battlemaster, Garrus the cowboy cop turned TURIAN SPACE BATMAN...yeah.  Honestly, the only majir male human characters I can think of who get badass to match the alien guys are Anderson (who is old), TIM (who you never talk to in person), and poor Joker with his creaky legs.  Sad days.

There will always be, even if you shoot him the foot,  Conrad Verner as a ..... dare I write it.... LI ?

[RPGmom28]

The whole not wanting to romance a volus, vorcha, or krogan thing all comes down to the creatures being physically repulsive to the player's eye. Well, this player's, anyway. Aside from his faceflaps, Thane has the body shape of a human male. We can look at him and say, "Well, okay, I guess I could see it. I could sleep with him." And if we couldn't see ourselves sleeping with the character, we don't tend to be interested in our characters doing so.



The appeal of Garrus is in his demeanor, his voice, his personality. I can't say I'd be physically attracted to his body, but as he says, it's not about that, it's about he and Shepard and their connection. Nevertheless he's not squat and rotund like a volus or grotesquely covered with lesions like a vorcha. Turians are majestic looking.

[Christmas Ape]

achwas wrote...

Maybe. Then again, the consensus of the other millions of Geths might drown them out and subsumes them into the fold again.

I get the feeling one can't 'drown out' geth within the network, or the 5% Heretics would have just been swept under the tide of consensus.

Or perhaps, there will be another shism similar to the one with the heretics. ME-3 may tell.

I actually had not considered that before. A split between the pure geth existence slipping between limited platform networks and the traditional data cores, and those who want to establish more complex platforms for the exploration of identity...interesting, but possibly too much 'clutter' for the size of the ME3 threat.

As for "no secrets with the Geth"- the heretics faction kept secrets from the orthodox Geth, and had the impression at least taht the situation was similar on the other side - hence their need for spying on their brothers.

Well, no secrets within a network. Geth sharing a platform are in full and constant communication. The Heretic <-> Orthodox spying operations were effectively eavesdropping.

[Louis_Cypher]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I think it's just that the human male LIs don't stand out as much.  Kaidan and Jacob are space marines.  In a game full of...space marines.  

Then there's Nihlus the veteran Spectre, Thane the master assassin, Wrex the badass krogan battlemaster, Garrus the cowboy cop turned TURIAN SPACE BATMAN...yeah.  Honestly, the only majir male human characters I can think of who get badass to match the alien guys are Anderson (who is old), TIM (who you never talk to in person), and poor Joker with his creaky legs.

It's not about badass.  Neither Tali nor Liara are particularly badass, but both are quite popular.  It's about interesting.

Jacob is dull for many reasons.  Part of it is that he doesn't really bring a unique skill to the team, but he still could have been interesting, if he actually had something to say, or exhibited character growth.  

Kaidan is a little different, IMO (as is Ashley, who also has some problems with standing out).  He has plenty to say: the Brain Camp background, the commentary on missions, etc.  He does sort lack distinct role, but that's less of a problem than it is for Jacob (the ME1 team is smaller and has a different dynamic).  His big problem is that he's disconnected from the story: he's just at the beginning and sticks around.  Especially compared to Liara, who is intimately involved both with Benezia and the whole Prothean thing, Kaidan fades into the background.

Though ME does suffer from a bit of a shortage of dynamic human males, I think Joker could make a good LI, creaky legs and all.  He has unique talent, personality, a moderately interesting background, and he's connected enough to the story, despite not being a squad member.  I don't think it would have worked in ME1, but I think it could work in 3.  I think he'd be better than Jacob, but then I think I'd prefer Zaeed to Jacob (have I mentioned that I hate Jacob).  TIM and Anderson are harder, if only because they're not around. 

[achwas]

Louis_Cypher wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I think it's just that the human male LIs don't stand out as much.  Kaidan and Jacob are space marines.  In a game full of...space marines.  

Then there's Nihlus the veteran Spectre, Thane the master assassin, Wrex the badass krogan battlemaster, Garrus the cowboy cop turned TURIAN SPACE BATMAN...yeah.  Honestly, the only majir male human characters I can think of who get badass to match the alien guys are Anderson (who is old), TIM (who you never talk to in person), and poor Joker with his creaky legs.

It's not about badass.  Neither Tali nor Liara are particularly badass, but both are quite popular.  It's about interesting.

Jacob is dull for many reasons.  Part of it is that he doesn't really bring a unique skill to the team, but he still could have been interesting, if he actually had something to say, or exhibited character growth.  

Kaidan is a little different, IMO (as is Ashley, who also has some problems with standing out).  He has plenty to say: the Brain Camp background, the commentary on missions, etc.  He does sort lack distinct role, but that's less of a problem than it is for Jacob (the ME1 team is smaller and has a different dynamic).  His big problem is that he's disconnected from the story: he's just at the beginning and sticks around.  Especially compared to Liara, who is intimately involved both with Benezia and the whole Prothean thing, Kaidan fades into the background.

Though ME does suffer from a bit of a shortage of dynamic human males, I think Joker could make a good LI, creaky legs and all.  He has unique talent, personality, a moderately interesting background, and he's connected enough to the story, despite not being a squad member.  I don't think it would have worked in ME1, but I think it could work in 3.  I think he'd be better than Jacob, but then I think I'd prefer Zaeed to Jacob (have I mentioned that I hate Jacob).  TIM and Anderson are harder, if only because they're not around. 

Actually; I'd say that badass come into it a lot.Liara and Tali may not be badass, but they are interesting (even if I don't like Tali, she has far more intersting oddities about her than Jacob ), and for the female LI's it may be less of a factor, since I see few guys actually looking for badass women as their partners in RL. But for the male players - I will not speculate on the female femShep players preferences - the coolness aka "badass-quotient" of the male LI will be rather at the forefront of the their minds. Especially if a male player does feel some unease about courting a human male LI with the femShep.... I don't think it's not  a relevant factor^^  Easier to see you femShep go for the cool and alien guy  rather than for the boringly nice one, especially since Garrus is done so well - and Thane, even if I personally don't like his scripted personality, has a cool voice and obviously appeals to many others in hi vulnerability and loneliness.

I agree on Joker possibly being an interesting LI option, no opinion about Zaeed. Then again, if one could snog everyone on the Normandy, it would be sort of boring. Say I like Kasumi quite alot because basically she is unavailable.

Modifié par achwas, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:48 .

[Louis_Cypher]

achwas wrote...

Actually; I'd say that badass come into it a lot [...] for the female LI's it may be less of a factor, since I see few guys actually looking for badass women as their partners in RL. But for the male players - I will not speculate on the female femShep players preferences - the coolness aka "badass-quotient" of the male LI will be rather at the forefront of the their minds.

There is that possibility, yes, despite the somewhat unfortunate implications.

I agree on Joker possibly being an interesting LI option, no opinion about Zaeed.  Then again, if one could snog everyone on the Normandy, it would be sort of boring. Say I like Kasumi quite alot because basically she is unavailable. 

I don't really think Zaeed as a LI is a good idea, though I suppose it could work, depending on what happens in 3.  I also think he's the 2nd most boring character.  Kasumi would probably be better than Zaeed, but I don't think she's over Keiji just yet.

Back on topic, another character I don't like, who I haven't seen mentioned, is Admiral Mikhailovich, the idiot trying to do the inspection in ME1.  I get that he's supposed to be an officious ass, but he's so over-the-top about it (Stealth? We don't need no stinkin' Stealth!) that it's a bit ridiculous.

[Hoki]

Samara because shes a justicar.

Justicars are basically religious zealots / renegades that follow an ancient code rather than the law of the land.

Justicars are so zealous that they'd kill their own children for a crime rather than imprisoning them.



If a civilization's morals differ from that of the justicar's civilization's morals, then justicars are basically evil terrorists because they won't recognize any other authority.

[CalJones]

Kasumi's enough over Keiji that she's writing bad poetry about Jacob.