531 réponses à ce sujet

[Sable Rhapsody]

Louis_Cypher wrote...

achwas wrote...

Actually; I'd say that badass come into it a lot [...] for the female LI's it may be less of a factor, since I see few guys actually looking for badass women as their partners in RL. But for the male players - I will not speculate on the female femShep players preferences - the coolness aka "badass-quotient" of the male LI will be rather at the forefront of the their minds.

There is that possibility, yes, despite the somewhat unfortunate implications.

I agree on Joker possibly being an interesting LI option, no opinion about Zaeed.  Then again, if one could snog everyone on the Normandy, it would be sort of boring. Say I like Kasumi quite alot because basically she is unavailable. 

I don't really think Zaeed as a LI is a good idea, though I suppose it could work, depending on what happens in 3.  I also think he's the 2nd most boring character.  Kasumi would probably be better than Zaeed, but I don't think she's over Keiji just yet.

Back on topic, another character I don't like, who I haven't seen mentioned, is Admiral Mikhailovich, the idiot trying to do the inspection in ME1.  I get that he's supposed to be an officious ass, but he's so over-the-top about it (Stealth? We don't need no stinkin' Stealth!) that it's a bit ridiculous.

I thought Liara was pretty badass in LotSB.  And Tali, while not on par with, say, Wrex or Samara levels of badass, certainly takes a few levels in badass in the interim of ME1 and ME2.

Also, I can only speak for my personal preferences in LIs as a FemShep player, but my FemShep needs someone badass whom she isn't just going to steamroller all over.  The game's about space marines, giant guns, and apocalyptic machine monster invasions.  At least in my opinion, any person Shep romances has to keep up with a certain level of badass.  I felt this was less the case in, say, DA:O where the Warden was still pretty green at the start.

I could totally go for Joker as an LI.  Hey, he can walk now!  Maybe Mordin will find a way to fix his bones without inducing liver failure.  A girl can hope.

[Louis_Cypher]

Another character I don't like, though I acknowledge this may be a minority opinion, is Navigator Pressly, at least as presented in ME1 (the journal at the Normandy Crash Site is well-done).  For most of the game, he doesn't have a clear purpose.  He just delivers a few lines, stands there for most of the game, then has a walk-on at Ilos. He's standing (in a highly visible spot, unlike Adams), without any purpose.  If numerous background crew had something to say, it would be more reasonable, but he sticks out like a sore thumb.

I also mentioned in a earlier post that Zaeed is the 2nd more boring character, after Jacob.  I think the disconnected conversation style of the DLC characters really hurts their development.  Because the dialog is always the same, it makes it very difficult to show character growth, particularly how their loyalty mission affects them.  Zaeed suffers far worse than Kasumi, because Kasumi's mission shows things a lot more directly.  Zaeed's mission is pretty much non-stop action, with only a few brief moments of interpersonal conflict and growth.  I certainly have no problem with action, but the way Zaeed's dialog works the only chance to actually see his growth is a few brief glimpses in the Collector Base.

Zaeed also suffers in that so much of his dialog are his war stories, which are relatively impressive in the abstract, but not exactly up to the standard of Shepard. "Did I mention the time I took out the warlord in charge of the Blood Pack on Omega?" "Did I mention that time I took on the heads of Eclipse, the Blood Pack, and the Blue Suns on Omega, all on the same day?  And by 'that time', I mean yesterday."

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I thought Liara was pretty badass in LotSB.  And Tali, while not on par with, say, Wrex or Samara levels of badass, certainly takes a few levels in badass in the interim of ME1 and ME2.

Liara has certainly moved up the spectrum, but she was quite popular as a LI before LotSB, and the relevant decision is made in ME1, well before her upgrade.  Tali is no slouch (not even in ME1), but neither is Kaidan or Jacob.

Also, I can only speak for my personal preferences in LIs as a FemShep player, but my FemShep needs someone badass whom she isn't just going to steamroller all over.  The game's about space marines, giant guns, and apocalyptic machine monster invasions.  At least in my opinion, any person Shep romances has to keep up with a certain level of badass.

That's more of a minimum standard, and anybody who's on the team meets it (and it could apply to MShep just as much).  Once you meet that standard, badass is secondary, which is why Joker would make a better LI than Zaeed or Grunt.

There is (another) related problem with Jacob, though.  Despite his physical compentence, he does feel like he could get steam-rolled by Shepard, in terms of personality or motivation.  He's nominally Cerberus at the start of the game, but he switches loyalties to Shepard without much resistance; Miranda goes through the same transformation, but her interactions with Shepard and overall character growth are much greater (at least potentially, depending on the choices you make).  As Jack says, he doesn't know who he is, and he doesn't even seem interested in discovering or deciding who he is.

[nickkcin11]

Harbinger- WTF! He takes control of a collector every 5 seconds making the fights with him just another enemy really.
Jack- Even after she finds out she had it best among the children she is still a ****. All she does is complain (even though she does have some right to) and die... a lot.
Zaeed- He is reckless! Why would he blow up the refinery and almost get himself killed (at the end of a paragon choice in his loyalty mission). On the plus side, his voice acting is top notch.
Grunt- The only good thing about grunt is... he looks cool and in his loyalty mission I get to see Wrex more. Wrex is just much better in my opinion.
My favorite characters are Ashley (while a racist at first she does have a slight reason and if you are friendly to her she becomes more tolerant and in ME2 even gets mad at Shepard for joining Cerberus), Wrex (he is just an awesome character), Thane (I feel so sorry for him, he has a disease, an estranged child, and a dead wife), and Garrus (His dialogue brings up the events of ME1 a lot which is a plus and he is a realistic character who changes significantly.)
Oh and Joker, I love Seth Green so he is an instant hit with me. Also his change in how he views EDI was a nice turn. I wish he was more serious at times though...

Modifié par nickkcin11, 30 octobre 2010 - 07:57 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Louis_Cypher wrote...

That's more of a minimum standard, and anybody who's on the team meets it (and it could apply to MShep just as much).  Once you meet that standard, badass is secondary, which is why Joker would make a better LI than Zaeed or Grunt.

Hmm.  I disagree a little.  You mentioned Jacob as a character who was a little too easy to steamroller.  I feel like most of your ME1 squad (Wrex excepted) also fall into that category.  In ME2, Tali, Liara, and Garrus have come into their own.  But I still felt like in general, the only members of the squad who felt like Shep's equals rather than Shep's inferiors were the older squaddies: Samara, Mordin, Zaeed, arguably Legion.  I tended to treat most of the younger squaddies like my proteges or students rather than my equals, especially Grunt.  Grunt was my duckie 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 30 octobre 2010 - 09:15 .

[Milana_Saros]

Surprised there aren't more "Kaidan sucks he so boring and whiny cos' he doesn't say the f-word all the time or cos he ain't kick ass krogan waaah waaah" posts. Guess it's a matter of taste but there's not a single moment in the game where I would consider him whiny at all. Or a douchebag, wherever that comment spurred itself from. Speaking about past experiences isn't whiny, wish more people would realize this. Constantly using your past as an excuse to behave badly IS whiny. His normal behavior made me feel "at home" in ME1. ME2 fealt a bit too much of a forced bad ass tour for me.



Aaaaanyhow:



Jack : Even if she calms down towards the end, at the beginning she is just...so over-dramatically a ****. Yeah, you had it bad, do you still have to overuse the f-word just because this is a mature rated game? And be such an aggressive **** alltogether? At least there's the chance to make her think about things a little, it eases off my personal annoyance. I was also impressed at the Suicide Mission so I guess that nearly neutralizes my dislike. Almost.



Jacob: Sorry, but I see no use for this character. Poor woman's Kaidan replacement? Hell I don't know. The way he is forced on FemShep is just...the first time I played through the game I ended up flirting with him by mistake just because I was being nice!



Liara: Not liking might be a too strong expression here but she just rubs me the wrong way. Wasn't that bad in LotSB but in ME1 she fealt like a frail nerd who had to be taken along and it wasn't long until she started poking around between me and Kaidan. At least she took no as a no. Was weird in LotSB how she supposedly is my FemShep's best friend even if I hardly ever even spoke to her. If my FemShep would have a best friend, it would be Tali. Totally not Liara. Just not my cup of tea. At least she is tougher now, altough I found the change a little strange. Then again people change...



There are some other characters who annoyed me at the start like Ice Queen Miranda and Grunt who seemed like a pound of flesh at first but those two developed nicely as the game went on. Not enough of an annoyance factor to even bother taking note of.

[Phategod1]

DoomMech wrote...

This thread is dedicated to characters YOU personally don't like for whatever reason.

In addition to the character(s) you post you must also post a justification on why you don't like them.

I'll start first:

Garrus: The guy is a screw up of the highest order. He needs your help to kill Dr. Saleon, Sidonis, Garm, Jarrot etc.etc.
He quits his C-Sec job to go play Space Cowboy with a human commander he never met, his battlecries annoy me, and in battle he usually drops dead first. Oh, and "calibrations"; that alone is worth my contempt.

Miranda: She's arrogant, haughty, and has a weird face. In battle she has little in the way of serious damage dealing attacks, since chances are you're playing a class that outpaces her in DPS against shields and armor. Okay, Samara also has little in the way of anti-armor/barrier/shield powers, but she also has an assault rifle. Lastly, her grand standing will get people killed in deadly mission de jour, and yet her a** is virtually plot proof!.

Jack: Oooh boy, were to begin? She cusses up a storm, is insulting, and needs to put some damn clothes on! The cutscenes and marketing material make her out as a petite biotic superwoman capable of launching robo-tanks into the sky, and yet she has only two attacks that do exactly squat against defenses and close combat weapons, but because of her squishy nature, trying to get her into effective range will just get her killed disco dead. Her tattoos are supposed to be representative of prisons/people/kills, yet they look like a confusing miasma of color and patterns that don't look like anything.

Honorable mentions

Tali: While invaluable in combat with her drone and AI hacking powers (until Legion and his BFG arrive), it strikes me as odd that a young and inexperienced quarian, a spieces not known for durablity, is necessary to the story, while the millenia old biotic tank and highly trained C-sec sniper are completly optional. She very rarely ever talks about anything other than her people (and compares everything to them) which gets monotonous after a while. And yet I can't hate her as much as I do the above. I don't know exactly why, I suspect that a portion of ire comes from her immense (and inexplicable) popularity, and I desperatly don't want to hate her just because she has a bajillion appreciation threads floating around.

Ashley Williams: She's racist, pretentious, and utterly useless in combat. I value versatility, and yet all she can use is guns, I can do that well enough on my own thank you very much! However she's saved by virtue of being able to be safely ignored until she's killed off in a suitably dramatic fashion.

Kelly: What does she do on the ship exactly? Oh, well at least she's friendly.

Go wild, but please, keep the flames to a minimum. These are personal opinions.

 

Wow did you even like the game you dislike nearly half the main characters Funny I find your Opinions as short sighted as some the characters your complaining about, I wish Zaeed and Kasumi had been given in depth character detail. I enjoyed all the other characters on a different level. 

[tonnactus]

I get rid of miranda in nearly every playthrough.

My "favourite" comment,regarding the attack that cerberus performed on the quarians:

"It wasnt personal."

Then followed with "On this ship we follow orders" to a cerberus victim.
Or just outright killing the person that helped her to escape from her father under great risks.
The dumbest character in the game for me.
I dont even use her on horizon on insanity,where she is the only one with warp.

Oh,and i forget shepardt her/himself actually.
A real ****** and illusive man lapdog in Mass Effect 2 for the most time,without any character and even purpose.

Modifié par tonnactus, 30 octobre 2010 - 10:24 .

[Ryzaki]

I too am surprised at the relatively lack of anger the ME1 squad gets compared to the ME2 squad.



...Then again I felt like Shep was being a therapist in ME2 while he was just a commander in ME1.

[Louis_Cypher]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Hmm.  I disagree a little.  You mentioned Jacob as a character who was a little too easy to steamroller.  I feel like most of your ME1 squad (Wrex excepted) also fall into that category.  In ME2, Tali, Liara, and Garrus have come into their own.  But I still felt like in general, the only members of the squad who felt like Shep's equals rather than Shep's inferiors were the older squaddies: Samara, Mordin, Zaeed, arguably Legion.  I tended to treat most of the younger squaddies like my proteges or students rather than my equals, especially Grunt.

Well, Shepard is the one in command (the Commander, you might say).  And part of the point of Shepard's character is that he can command loyalties and draw a team together.  
But I don't think that makes the other characters easy to steamroll, at least in the same way Jacob is.  By and large, their loyalty to Shepard makes sense, and is consistent, or at least shows reasons for change.
Compare Jacob to Kaidan (and sort of Ashley).  They're both around at the beginning, and don't really have a big recruitment like other characters.  They defer to Shepard in large part because that's the organizational structure: Shepard is Kaidan's superior officer in 1, and TIM puts Shepard in charge in 2.  Contrast what happens when Shepard betrays the organization:  Kaidan is angry, but Jacob has no problems.
Miranda is in the same boat as Jacob, but she and Shepard have a lot more interaction, and Shepard does quite a bit more to convince her to reexamine her life (at least potentially).

tonnactus wrote...
Oh, and I forgot Shepard her/himself, actually.
A real ****** and illusive man lapdog

For that, I usually say that I hate the plot, rather than I hate the character, but I agree with you.

[Ieldra]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Also, I can only speak for my personal preferences in LIs as a FemShep player, but my FemShep needs someone badass whom she isn't just going to steamroller all over.  The game's about space marines, giant guns, and apocalyptic machine monster invasions.  At least in my opinion, any person Shep romances has to keep up with a certain level of badass.

That's what I also feel, except that for me it's for maleSheps and femSheps alike, and "badass" doesn't include "cool" or callous. I hate the "embodiment of cool" types, they always seem disconnected from everything. 
That's the reason I like Miranda and post-LotSB Liara: they're the only female LIs (apart from post-LotSB Liara) who I feel can keep up with Shepard, even may put him in the second place in intelligence. Strangely, I think maleShep has more problems with steamrolling over people, with femShep it doesn't feel that bad. I also prefer a quiet strength in the male LIs, such as Kaidan's and Thane's.

As for hating the "embodiment of cool" types, that's Garrus, of course (the LotSB dossier makes him easier to relate to). Krogan are also in danger of ending up here. I also hate Zaeed because he's so callous. BTW, I'm a man in RL, just in case anyone's tempted to draw conclusions based on stereotypes.

Ah, and make things complete I also hate that Shepard is apparently unable to act intelligently in some cases. I don't like ME2's SuperShep-without-a-clue.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 octobre 2010 - 11:30 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Ryzaki wrote...

I too am surprised at the relatively lack of anger the ME1 squad gets compared to the ME2 squad.

...Then again I felt like Shep was being a therapist in ME2 while he was just a commander in ME1.

Meh, the ME1 squad is more built like a singular unit and are rather inoffensive while the ME 2 squad are a bit like darts trying to hit different aspects of the personality board. 

Thats not to say that Ashley, Wrex, Garrus, Liara, Kaidan and Tali are just cogs, but more or less they are not as spikey on the detector as the ME 2 guys.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 31 octobre 2010 - 11:50 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Aside from Wrex I always felt that the ME1 squad were more or less normal people (and I don't mean this in a bad way), a group of ordinary people who gets caught in unusual events which are way above their heads.

The ME2 squad however seems to represent the outcast of society or atleast very unique and rare indivuals. The only 2 normal people from the ME2 cast are Tali and Jacob.

Both types of teams have their charm.

[CalJones]

ME2 is the Dirty Dozen. In space.

[achwas]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I thought Liara was pretty badass in LotSB.  And Tali, while not on par with, say, Wrex or Samara levels of badass, certainly takes a few levels in badass in the interim of ME1 and ME2.

Tali took levels in badass ? Just where did she put them - in some of her many hidden pockets ? Sorry, but Tali is - IMHO - rather much of a Shepard-fangirl, very starry-eyed and in "McDreamy" mode. although I realize her supporters have a different take.

Liara is .. nicely badass, for an asari archeologist...... if one ignores her insecurity when it comes to  relationships... and burying herself in details...and... yeah ok, dual-classed badass/librarian^^ Which means, basically I instantly fell in love with her

Someone I actually do not feel very warmly about is Anderson. Nuetral attitude in ME-1 (he felt a bit generic there ), but gone totally... compromising politician in ME-2. It's not really dislike ven, more "lack of likable aspects".... maybe they will correct it in ME-3, but I am not hopiing for  much.

And I really disliked Captain Bailey .... neither nicely corrupt, but helpful and tough in enforcing his brand of law, but rather a  smarmy "I try not to get caught" donut addict, looking out for retirement. Even the helpful things he did seemed rather forced, more born out of a "I'd better no mess with Shepard" mentality instead of real "shepa is doing the right thing" mentality. the entire "I get bribed by Elias Kelham" angle came up on the THane LM , I wished I could get him the intenion of Citadel Internal Affairs. Too bad one cannot...

[achwas]

Ryzaki wrote...

I too am surprised at the relatively lack of anger the ME1 squad gets compared to the ME2 squad.

...Then again I felt like Shep was being a therapist in ME2 while he was just a commander in ME1.

The smaller number of Chars in ME-1 made it more of a "set-course" dinner. You dealt with it all, even if one wasn't all glee and joy about some of them (Kaiden and Ashley for me ) 

While ME-2 is more of a "take your pick" buffet, where for most of the game you can choose precisely who to lay alongside, and who stays in the broomcloset for nigh the entire game. Since one rarely interacts, and the chars are more distinctive, it's easier to dislike and/or love.

[Louis_Cypher]

achwas wrote...
And I really disliked Captain Bailey .... neither nicely corrupt, but helpful and tough in enforcing his brand of law, but rather a  smarmy "I try not to get caught" donut addict, looking out for retirement. Even the helpful things he did seemed rather forced, more born out of a "I'd better no mess with Shepard" mentality instead of real "shepa is doing the right thing" mentality. the entire "I get bribed by Elias Kelham" angle came up on the THane LM , I wished I could get him the intenion of Citadel Internal Affairs. Too bad one cannot...

I don't really agree with the 2nd part, except perhaps as related to Elias Kelham, though I'm not fond him.  He seems pretty helpful in general, about the whole ID thing, getting Kolyat off, etc.

In fact, sometimes it's a bit surreal, they way he casually provides dubiously legal help, at times without even being asked.

[achwas]

Louis_Cypher wrote...

achwas wrote...
And I really disliked Captain Bailey .... neither nicely corrupt, but helpful and tough in enforcing his brand of law, but rather a  smarmy "I try not to get caught" donut addict, looking out for retirement. Even the helpful things he did seemed rather forced, more born out of a "I'd better no mess with Shepard" mentality instead of real "shepa is doing the right thing" mentality. the entire "I get bribed by Elias Kelham" angle came up on the THane LM , I wished I could get him the intenion of Citadel Internal Affairs. Too bad one cannot...

I don't really agree with the 2nd part, except perhaps as related to Elias Kelham, though I'm not fond him.  He seems pretty helpful in general, about the whole ID thing, getting Kolyat off, etc.

In fact, sometimes it's a bit surreal, they way he casually provides dubiously legal help, at times without even being asked.

Different take on the same phenomenon, maybe I should have picked my words more carefully. A straight cop would have blanched or blistered and there would/should have been some convincing involved. Maybe even some outright refusa to cooperate. A bad cop... would have tried to turn a profit from it, curry some favours or push some pet project of his, may point Shepard towards some customers he wants taken care of or make some dirty secrets disappear.

Bailey is just... rotten. Makes everything easy for you, but neither out of conviction nor trying to get out of your targeting scope. I also missed Garrus ((pretty much a constant comanion to my Sheps) making some choice remarks about him or the state of C-Sec

Modifié par achwas, 31 octobre 2010 - 09:56 .

[Collider]

I find it strange that one would say Tali is a "Shepard fangirl," yet Liara isn't.



Liara is swooning over Shepard the hero from the moment she's on the Normandy, and the very first two conversations you have with her are flavored with Liara crushing hard on Shepard. You don't have to do anything special, just talk to her and she's head over heels in the conversations invariably.



I don't really like the hero worship-esque aspect of Tali or Liara's romances (I prefer Kaidan and Thane's romances over the both of them, for example), but if the romance must be like that, I prefer the approach they took with Tali's romance in that there was much more foundation instead of "I like you. Do you like me?" note Liara passed to Shepard before they had even really gotten to know each other.

[achwas]

Collider wrote...
I find it strange that one would say Tali is a "Shepard fangirl," yet Liara isn't.
.

Tali keeps swooning an ooohhh-ing and aaaaah-ing  throughout ME-2 and expects Shepard to resolve her problem(s), telling him about the dire quandaries she is in then going all "oh please" when Shepard offers to help.  Of all the "there is a problem I need taken care off" LM talks, Tali's was the most "I am the damsel in distress" one. Except when she whines about Legion - and expects Shepard to ract according to her wishes. As in ME-1 she was rather bland, not a possible LI and overall sometimes more of a mascot, she really fosters an aura of helplessness  in my mind.

Liara on the other hand perceptibly grows out of her initial "my hero" reaction, and essentially in parts of LotSB expects Shepard to woo her (back), not the other way around.

Of course, the way ME-2 is scripted favours Liara's position. But to me, Tali never really seems to look at Shepard critically after joining the crew of SR-2, and likely never will, even after 20 years of marriage. While Liara, due to her being required to have been an LI in ME-1 and mourning plus ressurecting Shepard once gets to ask "are you really what I look for ?" and plans for a role of her own even if it means spending less time with Shepard than what she might like.
*shrug*

Modifié par achwas, 01 novembre 2010 - 12:01 .

[IndelibleJester]

I like pretty much every character. The only two I pretty much never took on any mission except those that were mandatory were Ashley and Jacob. Ashley is racist and has no skills except a trigger finger. Jacob had to **** about everything. And he looked like Kanye West. Every time I added him to the squad to give him a chance, Heartless started playing in my head and I un-added him. However, that doesn't mean I minded them. They were okay. I even chose Ashley over Kaidan in one of my two main fem-shep play throughs. Either way, though, my character romanced an alien... and thus they didn't take too nicely to her racism.

Modifié par IndelibleJester, 01 novembre 2010 - 12:58 .

[Merchant2006]

Jacob. The only thing that I like about him is how his character is so abysmal that it makes me laugh, reasons why? Well:

1 - He sounds extremely constipated when he creates a Barrier.
2 - Romance with femshep. I felt like I was watching a cheesy CGI Porn flick. Who the hell says "but the priiiiiiiiize"??? Oh wait! A moron. A very, VERY funny moron ^^
3 - And as the poster above said, he looked like Kanye West. That itself makes him laughable.

Modifié par Merchant2006, 01 novembre 2010 - 12:51 .

[Louis_Cypher]

achwas wrote...
Bailey is just... rotten. Makes everything easy for you, but neither out of conviction nor trying to get out of your targeting scope. I also missed Garrus ((pretty much a constant comanion to my Sheps) making some choice remarks about him or the state of C-Sec

I think it might be a sort-of "I can do no wrong" mentality.  He feels he's a good guy doing the right thing and "keeping the station safe", so petty things like laws don't apply to him.  It seems like even the Kelham thing is justified by "well, the 'arrangement' keeps the peace, and me and my officers deserve a little extra, 'cause we're the good guys". Which probably isn't a terribly unrealistic attitude in a bad cop.

And he feels Shepard is a "good guy", too, so he helps him out.