531 réponses à ce sujet

[Redcoat]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

GracefulChicken wrote...
However, I compliment Bioware for envoking such a strong hatred for Quarians in me. I think its really a feat (a good one) that I feel that strongly about a character. It says theyre doing a great job telling a story and leaving the details up for personal interpretation.

To me, that's the take-away message.  David Gaider has often said on the DA forums that the mark of a good character is one that gets people to feel strongly about them, whether it's like or dislike.  People tend to feel strongly about the ME characters in general.  That's the mark of some strong writing there, at least for most of the characters.

So much this.

This is why Jacob is the worst-written character in the game; not because people hate him, but because he elicits little more than a shrug and a "meh" in most of the audience. It's as if the writers wanted to created a character who was completely free of any angst, so people would not call him "whiny", which a lot of people unfortunately do at the drop of a hat. The end result is that you have a character who is little more than a lifeless lump with a cringe-inducing romance arc.

[CalJones]

I don't mind him being free of angst - I just wish he had some charm. His "busy" line sounds standoffish and rude, and I hate the fact FemShep can't talk to him without sounding as though she wants to rape him. They might as well have left him shirtless and sitting on a white horse with a bottle of Old Spice in his hand.

[achwas]

CalJones wrote...

I don't mind him being free of angst - I just wish he had some charm. His "busy" line sounds standoffish and rude, and I hate the fact FemShep can't talk to him without sounding as though she wants to rape him. They might as well have left him shirtless and sitting on a white horse with a bottle of Old Spice in his hand.

Simply calling him Fabio would have worked, too 

The odd thing about it, a similar thing happened to Kaiden in ME-1 (not as massively a fail of "interesting" as Jacob  but still )... and crossing universes, with Alistair in DA:O. 
Somehow male (human) companions who are also a possible love interest turn out lukewarm for Bioware. While Garrus and Thane would be dateable even if human, methinks. Even Wrex (IF he was not a Krogan *shudder*)... So they can write appealing male characters... if they put an alien skin over them ?

Just an observation, but they might want to look at it for ME-3, if they care to wheel out another male human LI we are meant to care about.

Modifié par achwas, 04 novembre 2010 - 09:11 .

[AmyBA]

I don't think Alistair is like Jacob. I didn't romance Alistair, but I enjoy him quite a bit, he is pretty entertaining and interesting, having him, Zev and Oghren in my party was pretty hilarious.



I doubt there will be any kind of new LIs in ME3, I hope they just try to flesh out the ton of characters and LIs they already have.

[Aurica]

No offense. but Alistair seems more interesting than both Kaiden and Jacob.

He is cute and funny, while Kaiden & Jacob... are just....not as interesting.

[Elyvern]

Alistair has hordes of fangirls, hordes.

[achwas]

mrsph wrote...

Elyvern wrote...
Alistair has hordes of fangirls, hordes.

So does Kaidan.

Neither is an indicator of quality, but yeah, if I had to rank them, Alistair would come out on top, easily. He still has lot's of distractors, and obviously could have been improved....

[esigma444]

I really didn't like Jack. She was just a whiner disguised as a hardass.

Jacob: Only because is dialogue ended quick. He didn't have a whole lot to say.

Aria kind of pissed me off only because I could never get to know her. No matter how much I did for her i could never learn about her past.

[Elite Midget]

You know who I hate?
Shepards that are misinformed about Ashley and use the racist label because Ashley isn't their hound and dares to have differing views than Shepard.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 08 novembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[Christmas Ape]

I -never- like the 'Bioware leading male' (Carth, Sky, Kaidan) and I really liked Alistair for the amount of DA I played.

[V-rex]

Elite Midget wrote...

You know who I hate?
Shepards that are misinformed about Ashley and use the racist label because Ashley isn't their hound and dares to have differing views than Shepard.

Nice to see another person share my view point. So yes I agree, those Shepards are lame, Ash is too good for them.

[grevinilvic]

cant stand ashley willams or kaden alenko , they were lame in me 1 i wish i could have killed both of them lol , then in me 2 what they say to you when u meet them just anoyed me , makes me hate them more . ash is down right ulgy too boot watch her eyes when she talks to you in 2 its funny . if you played kotor you will notice the voice actor for carth onassi is all so kaden another anoying goodie goodie .

[HolyJellyfish]

esigma444 wrote...
Aria kind of pissed me off only because I could never get to know her. No matter how much I did for her i could never learn about her past.

They flesh it out in the books (but only like... a little bit. Barely any).

I'm assuming its because Bioware has big plans for her in the third game. So far, from what the comics and the latest book has lead me to believe, she's been deeply involved behind the scenes, and has a far more important part to play in ME3.

[HolyJellyfish]

I don't care for any of the human characters in your squad from ME1 or ME2. The only interesting human characters are supporting characters (Joker, Captain Anderson, Emily Wong, Etc.). They just pale in comparison to the alien team, and their personalities are dryer than toasted bread.



Though, I did like Ashley. If only because when she decides to get poetic, Renegade Shepard has one of the funniest comebacks (You gonna bore them to death?)

[tommyt_1994]

Like most, I dislike Jacob. Not because of his personality, but because of his lack of one. That and his standoff-ish attitude.

[Redcoat]

Someone mentioned how Jacob doesn't seem to angst much over learning what his father did, and how that contributes to his "blandness". The thing is, if he did get upset over it, you'd have a great number of people calling him "whiny." Maybe it's just the backlash against the whole emo thing, but people these days throw out the accusation of being "whiny" far too readily. I'll take a character who's a bit "whiny" (like Alistair from DAO) over someone who's just a lump like Jacob any day.

I admit though, my dislike of your squadmates is limited by the fact that, if you wish, you can simply avoid talking to them (or avoid recruiting them altogether). Characters are much worse when you can't avoid interacting with them.

[FrancisKitt]

While Liara is my romance in my canon Shepard, I find her character rather pointless. In the first game, she's placed on your squad despite it being painfully obvious she little to no combat training, and it just seems hand waved that she's a good biotic, so that doesn't matter, while everyone else on your squad, even Tali, is well trained.



To be honest, I think everything her character does could be done just as well by Shiala, as not only is it clear that she's also a better person to ask about Benezia, she also has combat training (can't remember if she is actually a commando or not, but it would make sense). This also extends to ME2, where Liara's role as an information broker would make more sense coming from a follower of a renowned Matriarch, rather than her socially awkward daughter (no Liara, intrigue and dig sites are two different things).



That said, I don't actively hate Liara, and aside from non-LotSB ME2, she's well written, but still pointless.



I also don't like Ashley, but that's mainly due to her face and her voice and a few off-hand comments rather than how she's written as a whole.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Christmas Ape wrote...

I -never- like the 'Bioware leading male' (Carth, Sky, Kaidan) and I really liked Alistair for the amount of DA I played.

I agree, for the most part.  In fact, I think DA:O and ME2 where the first games of BioWare's where I didn't actively dislike one or both of the leading NPCs--there's something about them that usually makes me want to stab-kill them with a rusty spork.  But Alistair and Morrigan I adored from the get-go, Miranda grew on me really fast to my utter befuddlement, and I even learned to like Jacob by virtue of him being the only not crazy person on my ship.

Redcoat wrote...

Someone mentioned how Jacob doesn't seem to angst much over learning what his father did, and how that contributes to his "blandness". The thing is, if he did get upset over it, you'd have a great number of people calling him "whiny." Maybe it's just the backlash against the whole emo thing, but people these days throw out the accusation of being "whiny" far too readily. I'll take a character who's a bit "whiny" (like Alistair from DAO) over someone who's just a lump like Jacob any day.

I admit though, my dislike of your squadmates is limited by the fact that, if you wish, you can simply avoid talking to them (or avoid recruiting them altogether). Characters are much worse when you can't avoid interacting with them.

Yeah, this is a difficult line to tread.  If you don't give the character emotional punch, people complain about "bland."  If they have issues and actually talk about them, they very quickly run the risk of coming across "whiny."  I find characters "whiny" is if they fixate on a particular emotional issue, backstory or personality trait or otherwise, and talk about that topic to the exclusion of others.  For example, I found Aerie insufferably whiny because she could not shut up about her stupid wings.  I would have found Kaidan whiny for his fixation on Brain Camp, except that I snapped at him and shut him up first   That was a nice touch by BioWare, the ability to just shut down party members you didn't want to talk to.  I didn't find Alistair whiny because while he did have trouble getting over Duncan's death, he also talked about other, PLOT IMPORTANT things. 

I'm also in a catch-22 because even when I dislike a character, I'm usually curious enough to keep talking to them...and then dislike them more.  Unpleasable fan, that's me! 

[lizzbee]

Just a random note: Jacob is so much less dickish with ManShep than FemShep. That second conversation about "fraternization" has so much less hostility, and Jacob explains so much more of what makes him suspicious with ManShep. I see why men seem to like him better.

[Virginian]

I never have any ME2 character in my squad who is not wearing full body armor that has the optional helmet that completely covers the head. i.e. Garrus & Grunt. If their optional "helmet" is plexiglass over the nose and mouth and their "armor" is clothing then they are dumber than dirt and should be locked up in an insane asylum.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

CalJones wrote...

I don't mind him being free of angst - I just wish he had some charm. His "busy" line sounds standoffish and rude, and I hate the fact FemShep can't talk to him without sounding as though she wants to rape him. They might as well have left him shirtless and sitting on a white horse with a bottle of Old Spice in his hand.

That advert is a legend!!!
'Because when you're wearing old spice, anything is possible. I'm on a horse.'
He even looks like Jacob! Here's my bit of input: I agree that Jacob is bland. I think Miranda is whinging about perfect genetics too much. We need Aria to play a bigger role! I actually like Jack, she's a tough gal, and doesn't change for anyone, and her character is justified by her background. Everyone else in the squad rocks!

[tonnactus]

FrancisKitt wrote...

While Liara is my romance in my canon Shepard, I find her character rather pointless. In the first game, she's placed on your squad despite it being painfully obvious she little to no combat training, and it just seems hand waved that she's a good biotic, so that doesn't matter, while everyone else on your squad, even Tali, is well trained.

Defeating mercs and pirats for more then 50 years with biotics is combat training by learning by doing(she didnt have any protectors).Also Benezia was regarded as a powerfull biotic even amongst her race.

[FrancisKitt]

More than 50 years? Liara's only 106 in ME1, which seems to be around 18-ish in human years. Quite how she was killing mercs at the asari equivalent of 9 with a university degree is beyond me.



I don't remember this being stated, but if it was, then its pretty poor writing.