531 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahriman]

Jack. I just don't like bold criminal women.

Aria. "Don't f**k with Aria." What the hell is she talking about? Shepard can kill her and all her bodyguards for five minuts. Too much arrogance for queen of  house of cards.

Liara. I can't say I don't like her, but I don't trust her since ME2. Every time we meet her I have a feel that she uses Shepard. And I fear that she will use Shepard in ME3 like TIM did in ME2, I prefer to see her as squadmate.

[Redcoat]

The thing about Aria is that, being the ruler of a hellhole like Omega, she has to put up an "iron lady" facade in order to maintain power. By being dismissive of Shepard, she makes it clear that she is not someone ot be messed with.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Mordin's assisstant Daniel yet. How can someone on Omega be so bloody naive?

[Kappa Neko]

I hate only one character:

Zaeed: heartless selfish bastard. Doesn’t care about anyone. No team player, why recruit him??? His tough guy attitude is NOT cool. Borderline psychotic if you ask me. In contrast to Jack we are never given an explanation for that. So he remains plain cruel. Very one-dimensional. Then again he’s just a DLC character.

I feel indifferent about:

Grunt: he has no personality. He likes to fight and – yeah, that’s it. Then again he’s a krogan… apart from being a tube baby, he has no story at all. He has nothing interesting to say. He’s a mindless killing machine to me.

Wrex: I know that everybody loves Wrex. Well, not me. I don’t like the krogan as a species. There, I said it. War loving bundles of testosterone are kinda ridiculous. Aggression is not for me. I’m a gentle soul ;0) Well, at least Wrex is less of a blank than Grunt. A couple of times I almost liked him. I can sympathize with the krogan’s resentment for the genophage. I liked him better in ME2. He’s more diplomatic than the other krogan in the game.

Jacob: it’s been said a million times. He’s boring. I guess he’s an easygoing nice guy as long as you keep your distance. I liked him for the first few hours. But the way he pretends not to care about anything annoys me. His father’s gone crazy and he blows it off like it’s nothing. Yeah, right. Don’t wanna talk about it? Don’t wanna talk about anything?? Bite me!

No character is perfect, so there’s something I don’t like about every single squadmate, even the ones I actually adore. Every single character is a stereotype to some extent. I guess it’s impossible nowadays to come up with a personality for a character that has not been done a hundred times before. Adding new layers and mixing the stereotypes is what makes them interesting again. Garrus is the joke cracking badass with a heart, Mordin is the eccentric but brilliant scientist, Miranda is the hot chick who hides her insecurity behind a thick layer of arrogance, Kaidan is the shy and emotional hottie for the fangirls, and so on…

Characters I’m not all that fond of:

Miranda: first impression: cold ****. Her pity-me background cannot change the fact that she did some things that made me seriously question her mental health. Just thinking of that creepy smile when she kills Wilson is enough to make me bolt my door. I wouldn’t trust her for a second after such an entrance… no inferior complex or feelings of deep loneliness can change that. I *did* warm up to her somewhat. I get why she is the way she is. I’m sorry for her. But she remains one of my least favourite characters.

Ashley: what bugs me most about her is her ****y voice. Her xenophobia gets explained. She tried to overcome her distrust of aliens for the mission and that redeemed her a little. Her spiritual side is actually not THAT bad. It’s not like she’s a fanatic. Still, not something I’ll like her for. The way she snaps at Shepard is what I dislike most of all. No, wait, the poetry. BW overdid that badly. Despite all her faults or rather because of them she’s the most believable and non stereotypical of all the characters and that’s why I like her after all.

Samara: I’m very undecided about her. I like her calm and wise aura but strongly dislike her code. Samara is not a cruel person at all but her code is cruel. I don’t like people who follow rules no matter what. A code that doesn’t allow for violation (mercy in this case) I cannot accept. If I met a person like Samara in real life I would be very scared. That said, I do like her. She carries a great burden with grace. If only that burden wasn’t so unnecessary….

Characters I like but demand my criticism anyway:

Thane: like Kaidan designed to push the buttons of female players. Thoughtful and polite. Yeah, I like that indeed. But an assassin is not as mysteriously charming as you think, BioWare! At least to me an assassin is a person worth of contempt. In theory. Since this is a game, Thane is actually quite likable. What really really pissed me off was his attitude towards his profession. “I’m just a tool, so I’m not to blame”….*blow to the face* I was pleased that I was allowed to voice my anger at that. Funny how everybody hates Ashley’s religious speech but Thane’s spiritual side seems to be ok ;0)

Jack: sure, she’s a psycho. But she’s really grown on me. I’m torn between utter revulsion and heart felt pity. She’s not as cruel as she comes across at the beginning. Her romance was great. Still, she deeply violates my moral code. I’m ok with her language, though. The only female character that doesn’t swoon over Shepard. Thumb’s up for that. I love ambiguous characters. Actually she shouldn’t be on this list at all…

Liara: I like her a lot. BUT her forgiving nature really bugs me. It’s not normal to brush off being cheated on like that! A little less unconditional love would make her a more believable character. I’m not a big fan of the worshipping disease among the female LIs. Kaidan’s got it, too, I know. The only thing I would criticise about him. I gotta say, though, that the DLC made Liara a superior character. She came a long way from the disturbingly young, shy bookworm with the shocking baby face. I liked ME1 Liara despite her being the stereotype of an innocent young girl. Shadow Broker Liara is better, of course. But….I’m a bit disappointed that she was turned into yet another hot babe. Her confidence is a positive thing. I just would have preferred her less seductive. Apart from that her personality is still sweet as honey. In a good way.

Tali: she’s lacking Liara’s new maturity. I’m a little irritated by BioWare’s preference for borderline illegally young women in this game………
Plus, I’m a tiny bit annoyed with her whining about the Quarians losing their home to the Geth. Well, that’s what happens when you create intelligent robot slaves and then decide to get rid of them again *rolls eyes* She doesn’t seem to get it. I guess that’s her flaw. Th Quarian arrogance. Unfortunately it’s a bit weak a character study. She’s sweet. That about sums her up. I can’t help liking her because of that niceness. Damn you, BW! She’s like a puppy putting it’s head on your lap. I *have* to pat it.

My complaints about the remaining characters are minor. I won’t mention them here.

Modifié par Kappa Neko, 14 novembre 2010 - 09:43 .

[Kappa Neko]

I killed the discussion.......

[Elyvern]

Kappa Neko wrote...

I killed the discussion.......

No, don't feel that way. I actually find your list one of the most refreshing on this thread. I...actually agree with alot of what you said for many characters, although where we differ is probably a case of being able to accept different ranges of what constitute as tolerable moral conduct (tolerable from the sense of an audience). All I want to say is, you may even end up liking the characters you aren't too fond of if you actively choose to learn more about them and try putting away your mindset of dislike.

Modifié par Elyvern, 17 novembre 2010 - 12:32 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Elyvern wrote...

Kappa Neko wrote...

I killed the discussion.......

No, don't feel that way. I actually find your list one of the most refreshing on this thread. I...actually agree with alot of what you said for many characters, although where we differ is probably a case of being able to accept different ranges of what constitute as tolerable moral values (tolerable from the sense of an audience). All I want to say is, you may even end up liking the characters you aren't too fond of if you actively choose to learn more about them and try putting away your mindset of dislike.

That happened to me with Miranda.  I was convinced I'd hate her, and I ended up really liking and respecting her.  Probably because I tend to not particularly like the "leading NPCs" of BioWare games, or at least see them as far from equal to the protagonist, and Miranda was an intelligent, driven, complex, and actually competent second-in-command.  The same thing happened with Leliana and Wynne from DA:O--I thought they'd drive me nuts and ended up adoring them.

[achwas]

Kappa Neko wrote...

I killed the discussion.......

no you didn't^^ You just handed it a roofie

Interesting take on things, especially the observations about Thane. But pray, what exactly do you mean by Liara being generous about getting "cheated" on - an observation on her attitude if Shep goes for a different LI in ME-2 ?

Modifié par achwas, 17 novembre 2010 - 01:00 .

[Alienmorph]

That happened to me with Miranda.  I was convinced I'd hate her, and I ended up really liking and respecting her.  Probably because I tend to not particularly like the "leading NPCs" of BioWare games, or at least see them as far from equal to the protagonist, and Miranda was an intelligent, driven, complex, and actually competent second-in-command.  The same thing happened with Leliana and Wynne from DA:O--I thought they'd drive me nuts and ended up adoring them.

Funny... for me it's happened the exactly opposite: when I bought the game I thinked that I'd make my Shep romancing with her or Jack, 'cause I've always liked anti-heroes characters and similar and I was a bit p!ssed to have Tali back from the first game instead of Liara or Wrex... and, instead, I found "that silly Quarian" a so much better character that I replayed also the first ME to check all the dialogues and stuffs I missed of her. Eh... when we say "different points of view"  

Actually I don't dislike Miranda, but she's one of the character who makes me more uninterested. I really dislike just Jack, that looks me too stereotyped: she remainds me a strange mix of some comic characters... she's like Tank Girl with the infancy of X-23, but you help her one time and she falls at your feets. Hmm... well, fine. Also Samara's not in my fav. characters' list,but I like her more than Jack for sure... even just for the fact I always use her in the central passage of the Suicide Mission to avoid losses in the crew. 

Modifié par Alienmorph, 17 novembre 2010 - 01:28 .

[onelifecrisis]

Kappa Neko wrote...

Grunt: he has no personality. He likes to fight and – yeah, that’s it. Then again he’s a krogan… apart from being a tube baby, he has no story at all. He has nothing interesting to say. He’s a mindless killing machine to me.

"Mindless" is definitely the word. I'd have thought that the ultimate Krogan would be strong and powerful and intelligent, at least by Krogan standards. Grunt shows promise when he shows signs of doing some soul-searching, but then he happily comes to the conclusion that the meaning of life is to kill big things with big guns.

Kappa Neko wrote...

Jacob: it’s been said a million times. He’s boring.

True.

Kappa Neko wrote...

Miranda: first impression: cold ****. Her pity-me background cannot change the fact that she did some things that made me seriously question her mental health. Just thinking of that creepy smile when she kills Wilson is enough to make me bolt my door. I wouldn’t trust her for a second after such an entrance… no inferior complex or feelings of deep loneliness can change that. I *did* warm up to her somewhat. I get why she is the way she is. I’m sorry for her. But she remains one of my least favourite characters.

Yup.

Kappa Neko wrote...

Ashley: what bugs me most about her is her ****y voice.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I thought her voice actor was excellent. I don't like Ash, but I do admire the VA that voiced her. Convincingly playing a "strong woman" is difficult to do judging by the number of actresses that screw it up (and yes Hale is in that list for me) but Ash's VA pulls it off amazingly well. I don't find Ash likable, but I do find her believable. I kept her alive purely because her VA is, IMO, better than Kaidan's.

Kappa Neko wrote...

Samara: I’m very undecided about her. I like her calm and wise aura but strongly dislike her code. Samara is not a cruel person at all but her code is cruel. I don’t like people who follow rules no matter what. A code that doesn’t allow for violation (mercy in this case) I cannot accept. If I met a person like Samara in real life I would be very scared. That said, I do like her. She carries a great burden with grace. If only that burden wasn’t so unnecessary….

I hate the way Samara's voice constantly sounds like some yoga master in meditation. I can just about tolerate it when she actually is meditating, but in the middle of a fight you'd think her voice would get at least a little bit strained with effort/fear/pain/breathlessness.

Kappa Neko wrote...

Thane: like Kaidan designed to push the buttons of female players. Thoughtful and polite. Yeah, I like that indeed. But an assassin is not as mysteriously charming as you think, BioWare! At least to me an assassin is a person worth of contempt. In theory. Since this is a game, Thane is actually quite likable. What really really pissed me off was his attitude towards his profession. “I’m just a tool, so I’m not to blame”….*blow to the face* I was pleased that I was allowed to voice my anger at that.

Yeah, Thane's spirituality is pure BS. His only saving grace is that some part of him knows it. Shame you can't nudge him towards facing that fact.

Kappa Neko wrote...

Jack: sure, she’s a psycho. But she’s really grown on me. I’m torn between utter revulsion and heart felt pity. She’s not as cruel as she comes across at the beginning. Her romance was great. Still, she deeply violates my moral code. I’m ok with her language, though. The only female character that doesn’t swoon over Shepard. Thumb’s up for that. I love ambiguous characters. Actually she shouldn’t be on this list at all…

Jack is waaaay beyond repair. Showing a sensitive side does not equal "fixed".

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 17 novembre 2010 - 01:53 .

[Kappa Neko]

onelifecrisis wrote...
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I thought her voice actor was excellent. I don't like Ash, but I do admire the VA that voiced her. Convincingly playing a "strong woman" is difficult to do judging by the number of actresses that screw it up (and yes Hale is in that list for me) but Ash's VA pulls it off amazingly well. I don't find Ash likable, but I do find her believable. I kept her alive purely because her VA is, IMO, better than Kaidan's.

No no, I didn't mean that the VA did a bad job. I don't like Ash's ****y side; the way she sometimes snaps at Shepard is uncalled for. It's actually what makes her more convincing as a character, but I just don't like that part of her personality.

Jack is waaaay beyond repair. Showing a sensitive side does not equal "fixed".

I agree! I'm not sure if that's what BW wanted to suggest. If so, THAT would make Jack's romance the worst of them all! People don't get fixed like that by love.  Only teenage girls believe that. I like Jack's romance because to me it's about discovering something good and worth saving in everyone if we take the time to look beneath the surface. A total cliché, I'm aware of that. But done fairly well. Everything is a cliché nowadays. That doesn't mean it can't be touching. Give me one example of something in ME that's not been done before.

[Alienmorph]

Everything's done before by someone else... the important thing is how well you re-invent stories and characterization to obtain something new. The problem it's not that Jack is the 100th bad girl secretly looking for love, but that her characterisation and romance are some of the less well developed of the game. Or at least I think so.

[achwas]

Alienmorph wrote...
Everything's done before by someone else... the important thing is how well you re-invent stories and characterization to obtain something new. The problem it's not that Jack is the 100th bad girl secretly looking for love, but that her characterisation and romance are some of the less well developed of the game. Or at least I think so.

Some stories just don't mix all that well or can co-exist in a greater story as a whole. Jack is one such story. her's would better work standing on its own, but not as part of a heroic "saving the galaxy despite itself" story-arc.

[Alienmorph]

achwas wrote...
Some stories just don't mix all that well or can co-exist in a greater story as a whole. Jack is one such story. her's would better work standing on its own, but not as part of a heroic "saving the galaxy despite itself" story-arc.

Yes, she's not a bad character in general, but surely looks to me the less fitted addiction to the ME's cast and her reasons to romance with Shep are absolutely not solid like the Miranda's or Tali's. I mean... Miranda spent two years of her life study Shepard... she knew and respect him very much since Cerberus acquired him, even that she doesn't trhust him immediately and Tali was the unique alien member of the SR1 who was truly friendly for Shep since the beginning and no one is surprised to discovered that she was secretly in love of the commander since those times. But Jack? A psicho founded "in the deep a** of the Universe" (Alien3 quote ) who joins the crew just for her personal business... shes' waaaays less plausible as LI or even just as a loyal teammate.

Modifié par Alienmorph, 19 novembre 2010 - 09:31 .

[Kappa Neko]

Alienmorph wrote...

achwas wrote...
Some stories just don't mix all that well or can co-exist in a greater story as a whole. Jack is one such story. her's would better work standing on its own, but not as part of a heroic "saving the galaxy despite itself" story-arc.

Yes, she's not a bad character in general, but surely looks to me the less fitted addiction to the ME's cast and her reasons to romance with Shep are absolutely not solid like the Miranda's or Tali's. I mean... Miranda spent two years of her life study Shepard... she knew and respect him very much since Cerberus acquired him, even that she doesn't trhust him immediately and Tali was the unique alien member of the SR1 who was truly friendly for Shep since the beginning and no one is surprised to discovered that she was secretly in love of the commander since those times. But Jack? A psicho founded "in the deep a** of the Universe" (Alien3 quote ) who joins the crew just for her personal business... shes' waaaays less plausible as LI or even just as a loyal teammate.

I don't see how Jack is less plausible as a LI... To me romancing Thane makes a lot less sense. The guy is DYING! He's only joining the mission because he's got nothing to lose and because of that clichéd crap about atoning for his sins. Why does everybody need to have a noble reason to join?? Saving your own hide is actually pretty selfish. Sure, you'll be saving the galaxy but not dying yourself is one hell of a motivation!
And what about Grunt?? He just wants to join the bloodshed!! He doesn't seem to care about anyone or anything other than fighting for the heck of it. I prefer Jack's motivations.
And don't get me started on the Tai romance........

[Alienmorph]

This is your opinion, that's mine. There's no reasons to get angry Every ME character is based on a pretty classic clichè, EVERY ONE. If you foind that Jack's is reivented better than others, fine. Also I didn't named Thane... I consider him an interesting char, but I play as MaleShep, so I cannot speak about romancing him xD

Modifié par Alienmorph, 19 novembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[Kappa Neko]

I'm not angry. My apologies if I can across that way. I'm not saying that Jack is that original a character. I'm just saying that she's not worse than the others in my opinion. All characters have facepalm worthy moments, that's for sure.

Just disagreeing with your assessment that Jack is unfit for the team just because she's crazy and selfish. I thought this was a discussion thread. I'm discussing it ^^ I had no intention to offend anybody.

[Alienmorph]

Off course you didn't but that's nothing worse than two fanboys who fought for the honor of their respective favourite character for the peace of a forum, I just wanted to make sure we won't going trought that way xD

[achwas]

Kappa Neko wrote...
 All characters have facepalm worthy moments, that's for sure.
 

Legion doesn't. Neither does Kasumi and I'd claim the same about Liara and to some degree Mordin. But with some of the cast, the *facepalm* is strong, unfortunately enough

[mander83]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I don't distinctly hate anyone. Well ok there is one person I do hate but I never need to get to know her. I hate Morinth but I always kill her. Her attitude is a combination of Jack and Miranda except elevated to absurd extremes. Other than that, the worst I can say about some squad mates is that I'm not interested in them really. I honestly don't care about Miranda or Jacob. Jack's story at least has some depth and emotion in it. Miranda's is understandable but her motivations are just lackluster to me. In fact I'd rather know Oriana since she seems a lot more interesting than her big sister. Jacob is just bland. I don't care much about Samara's story either, except it made me care enough to hate Morinth so I was glad I got to kill her. So well done on that I guess. Other than that I do happen to like everyone else. I must be one of the few people who likes both Ashley and Kaiden, even though I keep Ashley alive because she can snipe and I just happen to like team mates who can snipe.

As far as incidental characters, Turian Councilor, Donnel Udina, and Corporal Toombs are the only ones I can say I really dislike.

You aren't the only one. I liked them both too.

I happen to be quite fond of Kaidan and Ashley as well.

I don't quite understand how anyone finds them boring. They seem to have much more to say that most of the ME2 squadmates. As a LI (Kaidan anyway) the whole thing seems natural. Its a gradual thing that grows over time. For me, the romance in ME2 didn't feel as well done.

I can't honestly think of a squadmate I inherently dislike. Miranda drives me crazy in the beginning but she comes around. I used to loathe Zaeed. Then I spoke with some people around here about why they like him. He's still not my favorite but I'm so much more tolerable of him now. Legion is probably the one I'm the most "meh" about. I know mostly everybody loves him...but I just don't.

[Mike2640]

Hmm, this is kinda tricky because for the most part I did like all the characters in one way or another (despite how much I may **** about ME2).

I suppose the one I didn't like as much would be Miranda. At the start of the game I was totally ready for her to be this cold calculating woman who I would have to work hard to win over into seeing my way of things. I saw her as a rival for my Sole Survivor Shepard, someone just as ready to sacrifice everything to save the Galaxy from the Reapers, but coming from the opposite end of the spectrum. I foresaw many heated debates on the nature of Cerberus and humanity's role in the universe.
Yet the second we step onto the Normandy, it's like she's a completely different person. She's totally friendly, and even chatty. I could understand wanting to maybe try to influence Shep into considering Cerberus's take on things, but her 180 in behavior just seemed completely inexplicable to me. This was not the same woman who had looked Shepard in the eye and basically told him to ****** off on the Lazarus Station.
But the biggest point of irritation for me is just how shameless the game gets when she's on screen. This has nothing to do with her character and more to do with how she's presented. Almost every damn conversation I had with her the camera would jump to her ass or her breasts. It was ridiculous. It made me embarrassed to initiate the dialogues with her. Also the fact that she's going into battle in a skin-tight catsuit and stiletto heels didn't help matters. I'm an admirer of the female form as much as any straight guy, but it was seriously overkill with Miranda.

The only other person I didn't like (Who I wasn't meant to dislike, such as the Council or Udina, obviously) was Shepard himself. Shep's a brick. Sure, he can be a nice brick, or an apathetic brick, or a grumpy brick, but a brick nonetheless. I understand we're supposed to project ourselves onto him to a certain extent, but when they used the dialogue wheel and made him voiced, he became his own character. And the character of Commander Shepard has no personality whatsoever. He's simply three possible responses to certain situations.
Admittedly they rectified this somewhat in Lair of the Shadow Broker, but they've still got a long way to go before Shep becomes interesting.

Modifié par Mike2640, 20 novembre 2010 - 02:58 .

[Kappa Neko]

Alienmorph wrote...

Off course you didn't but that's nothing worse than two fanboys who fought for the honor of their respective favourite character for the peace of a forum, I just wanted to make sure we won't going trought that way xD

I'm not a fanBOY *g* I'm not even that much of a Jack fan. I just think she's a good character. And by far the best female romance (ME2), as I just found after finally having seen Tali aund Miranda's flirty dialogue. But I'd rather switch to the romance discussion thread for this.
From the new characters Mordin is my fav. His character is very well written. The dialogues seem longer, too. There's very little to complain about.

[Kappa Neko]

Mike2640 wrote...

Hmm, this is kinda tricky because for the most part I did like all the characters in one way or another (despite how much I may **** about ME2).

I suppose the one I didn't like as much would be Miranda. At the start of the game I was totally ready for her to be this cold calculating woman who I would have to work hard to win over into seeing my way of things. I saw her as a rival for my Sole Survivor Shepard, someone just as ready to sacrifice everything to save the Galaxy from the Reapers, but coming from the opposite end of the spectrum. I foresaw many heated debates on the nature of Cerberus and humanity's role in the universe.
Yet the second we step onto the Normandy, it's like she's a completely different person. She's totally friendly, and even chatty. I could understand wanting to maybe try to influence Shep into considering Cerberus's take on things, but her 180 in behavior just seemed completely inexplicable to me. This was not the same woman who had looked Shepard in the eye and basically told him to ****** off on the Lazarus Station.

Yup. That's what irritated me, too. Thanks for bringing this up. I would have liked her as a character better if she had stayed this creepy emotionless Cerberus defender. But she's just another of the female characters secretly in love with Shepard