23 réponses à ce sujet

[Seneva]

A couple of days ago I was busy cleaning out the attic when I came across a box with old games. Just opening the box and peeking inside brought a big smile on my face. Reason was simple. Baldur's Gate I and II with the expansions were on top.

I go down the stairs back to my computer and installed it again. It never gets old.
I remembered posting alot of info on the now defunct BioBoards and how much of a waste it would be if that info gets deleted at some point.

Posted: Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:03PM
Looking at the posting date made me smile. 6 years ago I posted that same info
 

So here it is.

 

Modifié par Seneva, 23 octobre 2010 - 11:47 .

[Seneva]

General: Sir Kalthorine ut Wistan's Dragonslayers post.



1) Know that wing buffet can clear the floor during combat - but note that although it covers a wide angle it DOESN'T cover 360-degrees, so spreading your combatants evenly around the dragon means that not everyone will be caught.



2) Know your breath weapons. Against a red dragon, go with protections vs. fire. Against a shadow dragon, guard against level drains with Negative Plane Protections, etc.



3) Know that dragons like combat protection spells, and among the first things they do is to cast Protection from Magical Weapons and/or Stoneskin. Make sure your mages are loaded up with Breach and Pierce Shield/Magic spells to take the combat prots down and make them vulnerable to your melee attacks.



4) Dragons are wily combatants and switch their attacks to whoever tends to be causing them the most damage. You can use this to your advantage by buffing up an elemental (fire elementals work best versus Firkraag due to their natural resistances to fire) to draw the dragon's attention.



5) Dragons are naturally magic resistant, but a few Lower Resistance and Pierce Magic spells can make them vulnerable to magical attacks.



6) DO NOT kill them by using Disintegrate and/or Flesh to Stone spells. Dragons carry lots of good stuff, but these attacks will destroy the items they carry.



7) There are a few magical items in the game that give specific bonuses versus dragons in combat - and don't forget if you have a Cavalier Paladin that they get draconic combat bonuses as well!



Credit the above to Sir Kalthorine ut Wistan.



To that, I'll add: Always, always, always, always cast Resist Fear (2nd level wizard spell) or Remove Fear (1st level priest spell) before battling any dragon. Their first move will often be a Dragon Fear, and you will not find a lot of success fighting the dragons if your party is running around scared. ALWAYS cast that spell. I cannot stress this enough.



In addition: Many people have a rather unholy liking for magic missile spells against dragons. While it's true that they are non-elemental damage and allow no saving throw, that still doesn't mean they're the best thing to do. Usually your mages have better things to do, like tearing down protections. If they are going to cast an attacking spell, make it something with teeth like an Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting.

[Seneva]

Firkraag:

Firkraag does his damage mostly through his breath weapon. Equip the best fire-resistant gear you have.
In the same vein: cast the 3rd level priest spell Protection from Fire on everyone.
All spellcasters who can cast wizard spells should be sure to cast Fire Shield (Red).
Firkraag also occasionally uses a Chaos attack. You can counter this with confusion-resisting items such as Lilarcor and Aeger's Hide, or you can cast

Chaotic Commands (5th level priest spell) on all of your characters, giving priority to the ones who are going to engage in melee combat.
Needless to say, trying any kind of fire attack against Firkraag is rather useless.
Firkraag has 65% magic resistance. Figure out how many Lower Resistance spells that will take, and hit him with an appropriate number. After that, Chaos is generally considered useful, since while under Chaos, Firkraag tends not to use his breath weapon.

If you're fighting him with the mage, Conster, in the room, Breach him and lure Firkraag into shooting his breath weapon near him. Conster only puts up one Fire Shield (Red) and once that's down, you can easily get Firkraag to fry him.

Firkraag, being a relatively easy dragon, can be shot with magic missiles if you really want to. I said above that it's a generally bad thing to do since it ties up your mages, but since Firkraag doesn't have very much in the way of protections to tear down or spells to counter, your mages really don't have much to do and can shoot magic missiles if they want after his magic resistance is 0. Stick some in minor sequencers if you like.

Modifié par Seneva, 23 octobre 2010 - 11:49 .

[Seneva]

Nizidramanii'yt (Black in Suldanessellar):


The fourth level cleric spell Protection from Acid is the one that'll shield you from this guy's breath. It won't last long, though.
Put the Shadow Dragon Armor and Gorgon Plate to good use. Acid resistance is rare, so make sure you're using all you can. Make special note of the Corthala Family Armor.

Niz also opens with a stoneskin, so answer him with a Breach right away.
You should have been using Haste in all your battles before this one, but here's a time when Free Action (4th level priest) isn't such a bad idea. Niz uses a spell called Plant Growth that's like Entangle with a save penalty, and if you get locked in place, in range of Niz' attacks but unable to actually hit him, bad things happen. Ring of Free Action is good here too.

NOTE: Keldorn's Firecam Armor does NOT work here.
Arcane spellcasters should put up a Spell Immunity: Conjuration. Niz casts Insect Plague, which is bad for all sorts of reasons, mainly ones involving continuous damage and interrupted spellcasting.
Niz has only 45% MR, so kick that down right away. Apply a Greater Malison. Chaos is, as usual, not a bad choice. Niz has 20% resistance to everything, but Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting and Flame Arrow should still do just fine.

Niz is the only dragon in SoA who does significant damage by means of physical attacks. Be prepared to pull someone out and get them Healed. If your cleric's Aerie or Viconia, have them waiting away from Niz, up to the north near the stairs, so any wounded fighter can gulp a potion and retreat to be healed.

Modifié par Seneva, 23 octobre 2010 - 11:50 .

[Seneva]

Adalon:



Taking on Adalon is a little tougher than you might think. Trust me, the human flesh armor isn't worth it, and you get more XP from helping her.

Are you still here? Fine. First thing to note is that her breath is unresistable. Silvers are supposed to have a cold breath, and this one should be, but cold resistant spells tend not to work. Cast your cold resistant spells anyway, and equip your cold resistant gear.

Oh, she has another breath weapon too, that paralyzes you. Better get some Free Actions ready for that one.

Adalon also casts spell protections, notably Spell Turning, Have a Pierce Shield or Secret Word handy to knock that down.

In the middle of combat, she'll greet you with an Ice Storm. There is really no option other than to suck it up, which is why I told you to cast your cold-resistant spells anyway.



She also stoneskins first. Find some time to throw a Breach at her.

She also does it twice. Keep a mage waiting to kill her second stoneskin when she puts it up. Adalon has 60% MR. You may not necessarily have the time to make sure that goes down, but try, following up as usual with Greater Malison and Chaos. You might just get lucky.



Adalon is immune to cold, but does not resist anything else. Prep Flame Arrows, and Horrid Wiltings if you want to do damage, but you'll likely have better things to do.

[Seneva]

Saladrex (red in Watcher's Keep):





Just like Firkraag, Saladrex's main damage is through the breath weapon. Fire shields and fire protections, just as detailed in the Firkraag entry. Wear the Red Dragon Scale, too.

Saladrex's first move is always a Spell Sequencer containing Stoneskin, Haste, and Minor Spell Turning. You need two mages ready with Pierce Magic and Breach - even if the Minor Spell Turning doesn't get in the way of your Breach it'll mess up other spell attempts.

Saladrex is even worse than Adalon in the repeated stoneskin department. Whereas Adalon only does it twice, Saladrex will do it every five rounds. Keep a mage on standby to rip it down every time he casts it.

He likes to go for stunned or held people with his physical attacks, almost guaranteeing a hit. Fortunately, his hold person spells don't work that often. Don't bother with the Free Action spells.

Don't bother with the fire. He's a red. Same reason as Firkraag, except that fire attacks will not only not help you, they'll heal him.

Saladrex has 65% MR. With a mage on hold to take down his stoneskins, you probably won't be able to do much here. If you carefully count the rounds and make sure you know when Saladrex will cast a stoneskin (i.e. every five rounds) then you can work on reducing the magic resistance and following up with non-fire spells. Greater Malison/Chaos might still work, but Saladrex has better saves than he strictly should, and so your chances are not that good.

You can cause him to waste a round by sending in a Projected Image. This causes him to cast True Sight as his second move, dispelling the image. Simply have the image cast a Spell Immunity: Divination beforehand and his true sight will be effectively useless and a waste of a round. It's not so critical if you're shielded from his breath, though.

[Seneva]

Dragon (the green one on WK5, who has no name except "Dragon"):

This one's a green, and therefore uses an acid cloud. Protection from Acid is important here, plus all the usual acid resistant gear.
His first sequencer is stoneskin, dispel magic, and death ward. The only thing that should concern you is the dispel magic, which might just take off your acid protections. Breach the stoneskin, as usual.

Just like Saladrex, he stoneskins every five rounds, so hold a mage to take them out or count rounds.
He has 55% MR, and only 50% acid resistance and no other resistances. You can do some damage with magic here if you lower the resist enough.

This dragon also takes a page out of Niz' book. He casts plant growth, which can have the same bad effects as it did when you fought Niz. Free action might not be such a bad idea, but at this level you generally make your saves, and Improved Haste might let you kill him faster.
This is really a personal call. The safe side is Free Action.
As above, he borrows another page from Niz and casts Insect Plague. I would highly recommend not letting your spellcasters get hit by this. Immunity Conjuration if nothing else.
In a new and moderately interesting twist, this one casts Domination. This generally won't work at your levels, but a chaotic commands or two wouldn't hurt.

Make sure Sarevok gets one at least, if you have him, since if he turns and Deathbringers somebody, that can be really annoying.

Just like Saladrex, you can cause him to waste a round on true sight by bringing in a projected image with immunity divination. It's more important here since wasting a round there means that his plant growth and insect plague come later.

Modifié par Seneva, 23 octobre 2010 - 11:53 .

[Seneva]

Draconis (Brown, but not really):



As Sir Kal said: REGENERATION.

Draconis' first trigger is Minor Spell Turning, Spell Immunity Abjuration, and Protection from Magic Weapons. Disassemble that right away. It's a matter of question whether the spell protections block Breach, since they do on some games but don't on others, but get rid of them anyway. Spellstrike is the best way to do it. Follow it with a Breach.

You're not out of the woods yet. Right on the tail of that trigger he fires a sequencer with Stoneskin, Haste, and Remove Magic. Breach him again to knock off the stoneskin.

He'll repeatedly summon Invisible Stalkers. If you don't shut him up the way Sir Kal tells you to, expect a lot of them. The 6th level spell Death Spell will clear them all with no fuss.

Every two and a half rounds he'll be able to cast another spell turning. Watch for that and get rid of it when you can.

He has 55% MR. Find time to get rid of that (a Time Stop helps with some of this). Hurl some damaging spells if you have time, but chances are you won't.



Take down the resists, if just to shut up him and stop him from summoning a horde of stalkers.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any better, Draconis also restoneskins himself every five rounds. Be ready to knock those off.

This is likely the hardest dragon fight you'll find in the entire game. Taking him out conventionally is going to be quite a bit of work.

[Seneva]

Abazigal:


Protection from Lightning will shield you from his breath. As a bonus, Abazigal also is rather low level for the point at which you fight him, and his remove magic doesn't exactly work most of the time. Usually you'll be more or less immune to his breath. Jaheira's Harper Pin is a nice thing to have here. Wear as much electricity resisting gear as you can anyway, just in case he does dispel your protection.
He fires off Minor spell turning and stoneskin as his first trigger. You should already know to get rid of that, and how.

Like all the other ToB dragons, Abazigal restoneskins himself every five rounds. Be ready to tear them down.
He Improved Hastes himself every time he heals.
They don't stack, but this means that Abazigal does significant damage even without his breath. Hardiness and Regeneration for your frontliners. If you have time, try a Remove Magic or two to kill the Improved Haste.
He also has the ability to cast Minor Spell Turning every two and a half rounds. Again, make sure you take it down whenever you can.

His special attacks, Tail Slap and Shockwave, bust illusions, do damage, and fling you about the room. You can't really do too much about that.
He has 65% MR, but good luck taking that down. On a completely random basis, if you've lowered his MR below 50%, he will instantly get it all back. If you want to take it down and keep it down, do it inside a Time Stop.
On yet another completely random basis, he will start flinging spells. Kill him before he can start doing that. He does it really late.

But if he starts casting fingers of death and prismatic sprays, you know you're in trouble and there's very little you can do against any of his spells.
Abazigal is the easiest of the dragons to distract. He likes going after minions with a vengeance, so summon some Mord's Swords and Planetars here. He really will focus on them quite a lot.

[Seneva]

Fll'Yissetat (green in Abazigal's Lair)


Differs from the Green on Watcher's Keep 5 in only one way: she casts Dire Charm instead of Domination. Prepare for them in the exact same manner.

Final, general notes on dragons

Summoning the nearly invulnerable Mordenkainen's Swords and the Planetar are never wrong moves against dragons. It's not a bad idea to use them as extra frontliners if you feel it is necessary to surround the dragon.
If you are going into a dragon battle without Lower Resist and Breach spells, prepare for pain. Simple fact. Remember those two.
Remember in all cases that their most lethal attacks come later, and that killing them quickly is probably the best idea.


All of the advice I listed above, of course, is for parties trying to take out the dragon conventionally, that is with fighters going up and attacking it, supported by spellcasters

Modifié par Seneva, 23 octobre 2010 - 11:58 .

[Seneva]

Thaxll'ssillyia (Shadow Dragon):

These tactics are written by Tenebrous.

First, a few words from Sir Kalthorine.

1) He does like to periodically go invisible and dimension door about the area. True Sight/Seeing spells are useful to have going as in my experience they seem to make him appear sooner.

2) Spread your spellcasters farther afield than you usually would, for a few reasons:
- It keeps them active and hopefully out of range of a powerful wing buffet or dragon breath.
- If fighters are cast aside by a wing buffet, having your nearest "other" charcter far enough away means it takes Draconis longer to reach them, which gives sufficient time for your fighters to recover and get back to him.
- Draconis covers a large area when he goes invisible. Having a larger area covered by your party makes his meanderings easier to spot.

3) The Lower Resistance/Pierce Magic tactics work doubly for Draconis - I found that two or three of these in a Spell Trigger / Contingency at the start of the battle were a big help.

4) Once his magic resistance is down, hit him immediately with a spell protection remover (Spellstrike is the best by far) and then a spell disruptor like Insect Plague / Power Word Silence / Miscast Magic. This prevents him from summoning further Invisible Stalkers, which are a flippin' nuisance and a distraction from the main battle.

5) Don't allow your frontline fighters to be distracted by incidental enemies (the invisible stalkers). Whatever happens, keep them attacking Draconis while magic- users keep hitting the dragon with successive Breach spells. Use all your smite, critical strike and whirlwind attacks.

6) In order to keep fighters alive for as long as possible, don't underestimate the power of the 7th level priest "regeneration" spell. It doesn't have a long duration but heals a LOT of hit points while it is running.

7) Think about having at least one of your priests with a few sanctuary, Mass Cure and Heal spells memorised, and then have them track your main fighters. Start casting Heal spells BEFORE your fighters lose more than 50% of their hit points - it has a long casting time, and with Draconis's damage-causing capabilities they WILL need it by the time you have finished casting it!!

Drac is special. Very special. Gives nearly everyone trouble.
That said, the way he keeps going invisible is sheer pain. If you can, tag him with a Glitterdust, but the way this spell currently erroneously functions, true sight will do just as well. Make sure something is up and seeing invisible at all times.
Protection from acid technically protects against his breath, but Draconis is pretty darned good at dispelling that.

Make sure to get the Shadow Dragon wardstone. Return Amuana's bones to the two ghosts. If you don't get it, it will be very ugly. I recommend reloading if you haven't got it.
Since it can't see you, arrange your melee party members in a circle around it, equally spaced. This is to make sure its wing buffet doesn't get you all.

Its breath weapon is level drain. Ideally you don't want it to fire this thing at all, but if it can't be helped, make sure that you have at least the Mace of Disruption and Amulet of Power shielding two of your characters.
Thaxll'ssillyia also likes a Chaos attack, but likes to stack it with a Greater Malison. Together, these can get very painful. Block the Chaos the same way I described above in Firkraag's entry.
Just like Firkraag, Thax puts up a stoneskin as her very first move. Follow with a Breach as soon as possible.
Thax has 60% MR. Figure out the needed number of Lower Resistances, apply.
 
Thax is the easiest dragon, so you can also shoot magic missiles if you want. What's more interesting is that Thax has no natural immunities. This lets you use some of the more fun single-target spells, like Flame Arrow.
Of course, once Thax's magic resistance is down, the application of a Greater Malison and Chaos is never a wrong move. The Greater Malison at least should go on before you shoot the Flame Arrow. With a Greater Malison on, Thax fails her save vs. spells 45% of the time, which is quite often for such a big enemy.

Just before you attack, the best thing to do is summon a creature in the far corner, away from your mages and away from you and the dragon. Thax will see them, but not you, and her first move will be to start casting a Death Spell at the summoned creatures. As soon as that starts, force-attack her. This buys you an extra round before the shadow dragon breath goes off around round seven. As I said above, ideally you want to kill her before she fires her breath. This helps you do that.

[Seneva]

The list of CHEESE: 
Now I present alternative methods, from least to most cheesy.



The mage o' doom. Set up a high-level mage with the Amulet of Power and Robe of Vecna. As soon as the dragon is seen, cast Time Stop. Then cast Improved Alacrity. Your next spells then look like this: Spellstrike, Breach, Lower Resistance x3, Greater Malison, Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting x4. As soon as you pop out of Time Stop, the dragon is going to get its resistance dropped to zero, and be forced to make four saves vs. spell at -4, or take 80d8 damage. Even if the saves are all made the dragon suffers 40d8 damage or approximately 180 hp worth, which leaves most dragons with between 20-50 hp (a few more whacks from the frontliners and it goes down). Realistically, you can expect one failed save for about 225 damage, which is enough to dust nearly any dragon in the game.

Vorpal weapons. For some insane reason, none of the SoA dragons nor Fll'Yissetat is immune to vorpal weapons, and I suspect that others are not either.

Ravager +6, Axe of the Unyielding +5, and the Silver Sword can do some serious draconic head-chopping, sometimes.
Harm. Once you've lowered the magic resist of the creature, you can have a cleric or druid cast Harm and attempt to touch the dragon. If it succeeds, the dragon goes down to 1-4 hp and your frontliner strikes it down with glee.
Feeblemind. Once you've lowered its resistance, hit it with this until it fails a save. Once it does, it will stand there doing nothing until you kill it.

Most irritating to me because in PnP Feeblemind only affects humanoids and needs a touch.
Finger of Death. Once the magic resist is down, hit it with a Greater Malison and then pump fingers of death into it. It'll miss a save eventually (actually, it'll likely miss a save over 60% of the time) and just collapse. Most of the ToB dragons are immune to slay effects though. You could substitute Slay Living but it's a much weaker spell, since it requires a touch, dissipates if you miss, and has no save penalty.

Cloudkill. Stand offscreen and flood the dragon's area with Cloudkills and other area effect spells (meteor swarm, ice storm, death fog, whatever). Many of the SoA dragons don't react to this at all, sitting there like idiots until they fall over.

Spike Traps. Lay traps around the oblivious dragon (Firkraag, Thax) or lay them in an area and draw the dragon towards you (Draconis, Abazigal). Foolproof, but cheesier than Roquefort.

Modifié par Seneva, 23 octobre 2010 - 11:58 .

[zhokar]

I didn't read the post for every boss, but I did read the whole introduction post. First of all THANKS for writing up so well on the subject, always nice to see that BG still has such an active and dedicated community.



If you are well buffed and manage to keep the dragon's defensive magic down, the real problem is aggro management. The hardest hitting party members aren't always the best tanks and as you said, the breath attacks aren't 360° BUT if the dragon turns around because of an aggro switch he can unexpectedly huff and puff your party down.

I don't know if dragons have the ability to see through invisibility, but if they don't Invis pots should solve that problem. If they do, there's still sanctuary, dimension door etc.

[HoonDing]

I didn't see Power Word: Blind mentioned. Dragon will just stand there like a lemon while you hack it to pieces.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Seneva wrote...
Trust me, the human flesh armor isn't worth it,

This sentence alone is enough. Viconia disagrees with you!

[zhokar]

virumor wrote...

I didn't see Power Word: Blind mentioned.

Pills here! G-g-g-g-g-grabbing pills.

[TopRamen]

I've got another cheese



The ring of the ram. I've only used it vs. Thax, and have been meaning to try it vs. the other dragons.

But, I ran into the room, used up its charge and dealt 5-30 points of damage, then left the area and rested to get the charge back. Then repeat.

Takes a while, but it works lol

[Slyx]

If you want to be really cheesy, after you've used your RotR, just put it into a bag of holding, then take it out, and it'll be recharged. One of those bugs that I hated knowing about.

[Carinna]

TopRamen wrote...
The ring of the ram. I've only used it vs. Thax, and have been meaning to try it vs. the other dragons.
But, I ran into the room, used up its charge and dealt 5-30 points of damage, then left the area and rested to get the charge back. Then repeat.
Takes a while, but it works lol

Another way in which BG differs from 2nd Edition DnD.  In a PnP game, if the character gets a rest, so does the monster he was beating up on.   When you come back fully healed and recharged, the monster would also be fully healed and recharged.

[Grimwald the Wise]

I was having problems with Thaxll'ssillyia, so I did a Google search and came up with this. It's so good that it would really be a shame if it disappeared into the ether. Are there other equally useful threads that I really ought to read and are old and likely to get lost like the old bioware threads?

One thing I wondered was if I run away and sleep. Do the dragons end up as they were before you attacked them? I.e.
1) Do they heal while you sleep etc.
2) Do they re-memorise spells?
3) Are the answers to those questions affected by commonly used mods and if so, how?

What was helpful above was that I realised that my mages need to be a level higher before trying again as some of the really useful spells are not available yet. I was lucky to escape with my life it seems.

Modifié par Grimwald the Wise, 25 janvier 2012 - 09:41 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Grimwald the Wise wrote...
1) Do they heal while you sleep etc.
2) Do they re-memorise spells?
3) Are the answers to those questions affected by commonly used mods and if so, how?

SCS has a script to fully restore the enemies if the fight drags on too long and you're not close to them (I think it checks whether you're in their field of vision, but I don't know the specifics).

[Grimwald the Wise]

Thanks, even not knowing the specifics, it helps to avoid wasting valuable missiles, potions etc.

[Eyeofanger]

@Seneva how did you get that signature I used to be part of the community now I'm just dutch and how do you put it in your signature

[BelgarathMTH]

I nominate this for a sticky! This info needs to be written in stone for the whole community.