151 réponses à ce sujet

[Arius23]

This is a user mod that adds a wedding between the fem noble cousland and alistair when you leave the landsmeet chamber at the end of the game.  It was created by Dahlialynn and I think it's an excellent example of giving the players closure for their decisions.  Obviously a different cutscene would have to be made for each major decision, but I think a cutscene like this is far more emotionally satisfying than simple text endings like at the end of origins.

Here is the mod if any PC owners are interested in experiencing it with their fem cousland:

http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1839

[Bobad]

Surely that can be modded to have Alistair marry a Hurlock?, that would be very amusing.

[Faz432]

It can't be done because....modders are amateur and..... that makes it easier for them to do.... awesome things?



No wait....



Bioware devs are professionals and that makes it....harder....



I can't remember the official line on awesome mods from Bioware, I'm sure Mr Woo will be along to enlighten us on the complexities of a major development studio replicating something so awesome.



Awesome Mod!

[Mike Laidlaw]

We absolutely could do it.

We just chose not to, because we have X amount of time to make an entire game, and for everything you do, something else doesn't get done.

In an example like this, a scene that can only be viewed by human noble females who have successfully had a romance with alistair AND who chose the ritual represents a reasonably small portion of the audience. Therefore, the effort could be better spent on a scene that, say, 90% of people will see instead of 10%.

I really don't understand why people feel the need to imply we're incompetent because we don't do every possible thing we could do. Am I incompetent because I chose to go to a movie instead of skydiving one Saturday?

Modifié par Mike Laidlaw, 24 octobre 2010 - 12:23 .

[Bobad]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

We absolutely could do it.

We just chose not to, because we have X amount of time to make an entire game, and for everything you do, something else doesn't get done.

In an example like this, a scene that can only be viewed by human noble females who have successfully had a romance with alistair AND who chose the ritual represents a reasonably small portion of the audience. Therefore, the effort could be better spent on a scene that, say, 90% of people will see instead of 10%.

I really don't understand why people feel the need to imply we're incompetent because we don't do every possible thing we could do. Am I incompetent because I chose to go to a movie instead of skydiving one Saturday?

An incompetent skydiver perhaps, analogously, no.  I'd have loved a little daft adventure with any LI but yes, I undertsand why not and I really do like a little of the end game to be up to my imagination.

[Dave of Canada]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Am I incompetent because I chose to go to a movie instead of skydiving one Saturday?

Go skydiving into a movie theatre before watching the movie.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 octobre 2010 - 12:26 .

[Bobad]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Am I incompetent because I chose to go to a movie instead of skydiving one Saturday?

Go skydiving into a movie theatre before watching the movie.

Watch the movie, whilst skydiving, into 90% of the people.

[Faz432]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

We absolutely could do it.

We just chose not to, because we have X amount of time to make an entire game, and for everything you do, something else doesn't get done.

In an example like this, a scene that can only be viewed by human noble females who have successfully had a romance with alistair AND who chose the ritual represents a reasonably small portion of the audience. Therefore, the effort could be better spent on a scene that, say, 90% of people will see instead of 10%.

I really don't understand why people feel the need to imply we're incompetent because we don't do every possible thing we could do. Am I incompetent because I chose to go to a movie instead of skydiving one Saturday?

You say that only a certain % of the audience would get to see it, maybe on a 1st play through you're correct but what about the person who doesn't see that on their 1st play through or even 2nd, but on their 3rd. The % of the audience must change as time goes on and if each ending has an end sequence like that, then while they aren't seeing that awesome ending they are seeing another equally or better ending.

I'm not suggesting you're incompetent, far from it, I think you (Bioware) are more than capable of achieving better results. I'm just repeating the general idea that comes back from staff whenever a community member asks why a modder can do something that Bioware apparently can not or are unwilling to.

[Brockololly]

I just hope that for whatever ending DA2 has, its not as abrupt as Awakening or Witch Hunt and is more like Origins with a bit of dénouement. I can't stand games/movies/books that hit the climax and just end- if you're going to go through the trouble of spending dozens of hours to beat a game, the ending should be the best part, the reward, if you will.Not something that ends up frustrating and leaving you confused or disappointed.

Modifié par Brockololly, 24 octobre 2010 - 12:39 .

[Dave of Canada]

Faz432 wrote...

You say that only a certain % of the audience would get to see it, maybe on a 1st play through you're correct but what about the person who doesn't see that on their 1st play through or even 2nd, but on their 3rd. The % of the audience must change as time goes on and if each ending has an end sequence like that, then while they aren't seeing that awesome ending they are seeing another equally or better ending.

A large % don't even finish their first playthrough, let alone start a second one/

[L33TDAWG]

I like the epilogue a lot more myself because it gives plenty of information about our choices and how they have had an effect in some way.

[Faz432]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

You say that only a certain % of the audience would get to see it, maybe on a 1st play through you're correct but what about the person who doesn't see that on their 1st play through or even 2nd, but on their 3rd. The % of the audience must change as time goes on and if each ending has an end sequence like that, then while they aren't seeing that awesome ending they are seeing another equally or better ending.

A large % don't even finish their first playthrough, let alone start a second one/

Really?? quantify 'large'.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Faz432 wrote...

I'm not suggesting you're incompetent, far from it, I think you (Bioware) are more than capable of achieving better results. I'm just repeating the general idea that comes back from staff whenever a community member asks why a modder can do something that Bioware apparently can not or are unwilling to.

It has nothing to do with can not. It has everything to do with unwilling to. Becuase in many cases, we are unwilling to cut something else to make this thing.

We are not in possession of infinite time, money or energy. Should you find a way to rectify that, please let us know.

[Faz432]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

I'm not suggesting you're incompetent, far from it, I think you (Bioware) are more than capable of achieving better results. I'm just repeating the general idea that comes back from staff whenever a community member asks why a modder can do something that Bioware apparently can not or are unwilling to.

It has nothing to do with can not. It has everything to do with unwilling to. Becuase in many cases, we are unwilling to cut something else to make this thing.

We are not in possession of infinite time, money or energy. Should you find a way to rectify that, please let us know.

Does it take infinite time, money and energy to create something like that?

[Dave of Canada]

Faz432 wrote...

Really?? quantify 'large'.

Can't find the DA:O statistics but for Mass Efffect 2 (for example), only around 50% of people finished the game.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 octobre 2010 - 12:45 .

[Faz432]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

Really?? quantify 'large'.

Can't find the DA:O statistics but for Mass Efffect 2 (for example), only around 50% of people finished the game.

That's one statistic I can believe.

[Brockololly]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
In an example like this, a scene that can only be viewed by human noble females who have successfully had a romance with alistair AND who chose the ritual represents a reasonably small portion of the audience. Therefore, the effort could be better spent on a scene that, say, 90% of people will see instead of 10%.

Ok, I understand that logic. Fair enough.

But, with the whole "no canon" approach, isn't this sort of thing going to be problematic as the series goes along if you're importing choices? In that, if my Warden did the DR and made the Old God Baby with Morrigan while some other Warden went the Ultimate Sacrifice route, those are 2 very disparate outcomes. So would the resources be bothered to be put into continuing the DR plot with OGB amounting to more than a cameo or codex entry, given that some percentage of people might not have that because they did the US?

Its scenes like that wedding one that should be the unique reward for those people that made those choices to get to that point. But you guys likely have a good idea going forward as to what choices were most commonly made,so I guess that would help in determining how many resources to allocate to things going forward with the whole "no canon" approach.

[ejoslin]

In truth, something like that for all the love interests as a DLC probably would have sold very well. But as far as in the actual game, I would prefer to see the bugs in Leliana's and Zevran's romances addressed first.

And I have to agree, putting in this for one love interest/origin would probably not leave great feelings for the people who prefer other love interests, or origins. I can actually just imagine the screams had this been a part of the game.

It is a beautiful mod, however.

Modders have the advantage that they're working purely as volunteers, on their own time, with no deadlines.

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 octobre 2010 - 12:51 .

[AnimaTempli101]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...


We are not in possession of infinite time, money or energy. Should you find a way to rectify that, please let us know.

We could brainwash Bill Gates into giving you all his money. That or hold the world ransom for......


1 Billion dollars!

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...


We are not in possession of infinite time, money or energy. Should you find a way to rectify that, please let us know.

We could brainwash Bill Gates into giving you all his money. That or hold the world ransom for......

[snip]
1 Billion dollars!

Haha. Even if they had all the money in the world they'd have to stop at some point to release the game and people would still complain about things that weren't included.

Then the retail price would probably have to be upped to reflect the bottomless budget... so, IMO, some limitations are probably good in the long run :B You come up with more creative solutions when you only have so much to work with.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 24 octobre 2010 - 12:56 .

[AnimaTempli101]

Then we use a







'Time Machine'



and use it to create a time loop, allowing the dev team to work on things simultaneously.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Faz432 wrote...

Does it take infinite time, money and energy to create something like that?

You are missing my point. I suspect deliberately. Let's try another way, shall we?

Origins was made with a team of, let's call the average, 100 people. Over 6 years, or 72 months, there were 7200 man-months of effort put into Origins. (Not real numbers, but nice and round.)

Let's say half a million people have access to the DA toolset. The game
has been out for 10 months. Therefore 5 million man-months of effort
could have been generated by the community.

So why haven't the community generated 694 games in this time? HUH?

Perhaps because those half a million people have chosen to do other things! They have prioritized something else over making a video game. Just as we prioritize, say, Riordan's leap over a wedding scene that very few players would see.

As to making a custom ending for every possible outcome in Origins, we would have not been able to make a game. It would have been all ending, becuase by the logic being presented, we would have to have made multiple weddings for Bann Teagan, among hundreds of other possible outcomes.

[AnimaTempli101]

Before anybody asks, yes I'm going through a Dr Evil phase.

[aaniadyen]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Before anybody asks, yes I'm going through a Dr Evil phase.

At least it's not a Chris Priestly phase.

*shiver*

[AnimaTempli101]

I'm not that mad.