151 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

SgtElias wrote...

Thank you very much for that. I clicked on it, and then my husband walked up behind me to see what I was up to, looked over my shoulder, and gave me a dirty look.

Tell him it's for research.

[Rogue Unit]

Dave of Canada wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

If I had my wishes on things getting cut, I would have much rather had Morrigan's "walk scene" for the DR cut rather than the DR scene that coulda, shoulda, woulda been better.

I disagree. Without the walk, we wouldn't have had this.

And I thought it looked creepy when it was Morrigan.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 24 octobre 2010 - 07:56 .

[SgtElias]

Dave of Canada wrote...

SgtElias wrote...

Thank you very much for that. I clicked on it, and then my husband walked up behind me to see what I was up to, looked over my shoulder, and gave me a dirty look.

Tell him it's for research.

Ah, it's too late. The damage has been done.  Besides, he has all the same classes I do; he won't buy it.

[AmstradHero]

asaiasai wrote...
I understand that taking the example from above that the ending is small percentage of the over all total endings that a player might choose from, but i would be willing to bet that just about every player here has that ending at least once.

Holy giant assumptions, Batman!

You're assuming almost every player here has played through the game as a human noble female and has romanced Alistair and done the Dark Ritual and arranged to marry Alistair and become Queen. 

What do you mean by "players here"?  Players in this thread? That's a miniscule percentage of the people who bought Dragon Age.  Players who visit these forums, a slightly larger percentage, but still tiny. 

I remember seeing a post (I think by David Gaider) mentioning some rough statistics on player origin and gender choice. If I remember correctly, male human noble was the most popular choice. Also, there was still around the 50% completion rate for players actually finishing the game.

50% of players finishing, minus those who won't replay the game, minus those who played a human male noble and probably won't replay a human female noble, minus those who won't romance Alistair or do the Dark Ritual or become Queen.... the percentage of players who will see this ending is now looking pretty small.

I think the mod author has done an excellent job creating this cutscene, but I can totally understand why it wasn't implemented in the game itself.

[Ulous]

asaiasai wrote...

but i would be willing to bet that just about every player here has that ending at least once. What that means is that while the percentage of that ending is small in relation to the possible endings, it is still a signifigant portion of your over all fan base that will have that ending at least once, therefore that percentage is not so small.

Asai

Call me strange but I for one have "never" played as a female char in an RPG unless I have been forced to by the game.

With the above said and as likable as Alistair is, he is not romance/marriage material, any woman with even only half a brain wouldn't marry him unless they were going to get something out of it, and seeing as the warden is drenched in fame anyway it doesn't really make sense.

Just my two pence.

[KLUME777]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

Really?? quantify 'large'.

Can't find the DA:O statistics but for Mass Efffect 2 (for example), only around 50% of people finished the game.

But that counts every single playthrough, even ones that were for show.

For e.g. i started a game without import to see who was the default LI from ME1, then quite out, then i started a game to show my grandma the awesome beggining (shes awesome!), then i showed my friend the awesome beginning to try and get him into the game. Ive finished the game twice.

So 3/5 of my playthroghs didnt get past the lazurus cell base at the beggining. And they count.

[Herr Uhl]

KLUME777 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

Really?? quantify 'large'.

Can't find the DA:O statistics but for Mass Efffect 2 (for example), only around 50% of people finished the game.

But that counts every single playthrough, even ones that were for show.

For e.g. i started a game without import to see who was the default LI from ME1, then quite out, then i started a game to show my grandma the awesome beggining (shes awesome!), then i showed my friend the awesome beginning to try and get him into the game. Ive finished the game twice.

So 3/5 of my playthroghs didnt get past the lazurus cell base at the beggining. And they count.

I thought it was per sold copy and finished game, and it is pretty high. Where did you pull that one from? Because if it was measured as you describe it, that would be a dumb way of doing it.

[tmp7704]

Herr Uhl wrote...

I thought it was per sold copy and finished game, and it is pretty high. Where did you pull that one from? Because if it was measured as you describe it, that would be a dumb way of doing it.

The metrics are taken from games which have "allow to gather feedback" switch enabled, similar to the one in DAO i suspect. And yes it may look silly but the game is just a dumb piece of software, it has no way to determine why the player never finished a playthrough. It can only record that one was started, what the last save point (if any) was, how long the player spent playing it, and (if) they eventually finished it, stuff like that. And they do record/take into account these details for unfinished games, since it can be somewhat helpful in figuring out why the player quit. Obviously, key word being somewhat.

Modifié par tmp7704, 24 octobre 2010 - 10:40 .

[ankuu]

That is simply great! Beauitful! But i can surely understand that they can't do everything...i remember that scene they've cut out, with Morrigan talking to Alistair b4 coming to the fem Warden to tell her about the DR. I've read the comic and i just wanted to see that i movement....maybe a mod will recover that as well?

[tmp7704]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

We absolutely could do it.

We just chose not to, because we have X amount of time to make an entire game, and for everything you do, something else doesn't get done.

In an example like this, a scene that can only be viewed by human noble females who have successfully had a romance with alistair AND who chose the ritual represents a reasonably small portion of the audience. Therefore, the effort could be better spent on a scene that, say, 90% of people will see instead of 10%.

Extrapolating this way of thinking though, don't you arrive at the point where any sort of branching in the story and allowing the player to make choices with some actual impact on it becomes unwelcome, because it cuts the number of people who potentially view the resulting option by half ... so just two choices down you're reducing audience to 25% per combination , and that means effort put into making each branch would be "better spent" on making something 100% of players can see instead?

Granted, there's already little actual variation in DAO and the choices the player can make have little effect beyond few words in ending slides, but the interviews given so far made it sound like DA2 may be better in this regard with the effects being shown while the game still plays. It can just make one wonder if that wasn't a wrong impression after all, and how much real impact these choices are really going to have...

Modifié par tmp7704, 24 octobre 2010 - 11:14 .

[Lord_Anthonior]

ankuu wrote...

That is simply great! Beauitful! But i can surely understand that they can't do everything...i remember that scene they've cut out, with Morrigan talking to Alistair b4 coming to the fem Warden to tell her about the DR. I've read the comic and i just wanted to see that i movement....maybe a mod will recover that as well?

I suppose you are refering to this scene? http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1611 it was made from bits and parts of other conversations but fairly interesting in movement.

[Anarya]

Ulous wrote...

Call me strange but I for one have "never" played as a female char in an RPG unless I have been forced to by the game.

With the above said and as likable as Alistair is, he is not romance/marriage material, any woman with even only half a brain wouldn't marry him unless they were going to get something out of it, and seeing as the warden is drenched in fame anyway it doesn't really make sense.

Just my two pence.

On the contrary, I think he is exactly the "bring home to meet your parents" type of guy, and that's part of his appeal.

Anyway I thought the mod was super cute. I'm biased, of course, being both an Alistair fangirl and someone who favors my HNF playthrough, but I'd like to see more of this type of thing at the end of the game (for everyone, not just one outcome). I always liked getting a cutscene as a "reward" at the end of a game. I understand that it's a whole lot easier to implement that in a linear game with no branching, but I still thought the slideshow was a bit disappointing. I think DA2 might sidestep this problem by letting you see the results of your choices during the game itself. I still think I'd like a little something at the very end, though. 

[upsettingshorts]

If the choice comes down to:

A) More variety of choice in the game itself, resulting in a DA:O type epilogue
Less variety of choice in the game itself, resulting in a cinematic epilogue

I'm taking A every time. No question.  An ending doesn't become less significant just becase it's text.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 24 octobre 2010 - 11:51 .

[nightcobra]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If the choice comes down to:

A) More variety of choice in the game itself, resulting in a DA:O type epilogue
Less variety of choice within the game itself, resulting in a cinematic epilogue

I'm taking A every time. No question.  An ending doesn't become less significant just becase it's text.

how about neither and use the mosaic tapestry (like in origins and awakening intro), at least you don't have to spend as much resources as you would if you were to make cutscenes. 

[upsettingshorts]

My point is that I'd rather they spend development resources on the game at the expense of the cinematic punch of the epilogue.

I couldn't care less how the results of my character's actions are revealed to me. What's important to me is having a variety of choices available to me to effect those results.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 24 octobre 2010 - 11:57 .

[Anarya]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If the choice comes down to:

A) More variety of choice in the game itself, resulting in a DA:O type epilogue
Less variety of choice in the game itself, resulting in a cinematic epilogue

I'm taking A every time. No question.  An ending doesn't become less significant just becase it's text.

Sure, if it's a choice between A and B I'd take A.

But in a perfect world I want to have my cake and eat it too, dammit.

Modifié par Anarya, 24 octobre 2010 - 12:02 .

[Zhijn]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Faz432 wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Mr. Laidlaw, could you kindly tell us why there wasn't a story-justified reason for allowing to import an Ultimate Sacrifice Warden into Awakening? I know the amount of players that actually went with the US path can be considered a minority, only being around 20% of the player base. But this group, minority or not, was the result of the making of a single large choice -quite possibly the largest- in the game, not some combination of multiple decisions such as a Human Noble Female marrying Alistair at the end.

I truly love the series so far, but this little fact has been irking for quite some time now.

I'm not a writer, but I suspect an Ultimate Sacrifice warden being deceased at the time the events of Awakening take place may play a large part in this.

I think he's asking why you were allowed to import a dead warden into Awakenings and there not being a real reason explaining it.

e.g. Wynne did something to resurrect you.

Sorry, I was too quick on the Send earlier -- I've patched my earlier response. As I said in my edit, I suspect we just made the metagame decision of allowing people to continue playing with their Warden regardless of how they ended DAO. If the player wants to knowingly cheat the timeline, in this case, we chose to allow it. I wasn't in the meeting(s) where it was decided, though.

Should have consider doing it something like this:

DAO dead Warden ending - autosave.
Awakening beginning - New Warden the Orleasian + Dead warden's DAO choices.

Our DAO warden would still be considered dead, and this new orleasian warden is just that a new character with no ties to DAO except the choices our dead hero made. Ofcourse thats probably to late to fix now(?). =d

[upsettingshorts]

Anarya wrote...
Sure, if it's a choice between A and B I'd take A.

But in a perfect world I want to have my cake and eat it too, dammit.

And I think Bioware would have no problem providing that opportunity, if it was a perfect world.  My reading of their posts is simply them saying that ain't the case, and they made a choice.  

Seems like the right one to me, that's all.

[Anarya]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anarya wrote...
Sure, if it's a choice between A and B I'd take A.

But in a perfect world I want to have my cake and eat it too, dammit.

And I think Bioware would have no problem providing that opportunity, if it was a perfect world.  My reading of their posts is simply them saying that ain't the case, and they made a choice.  

Seems like the right one to me, that's all.

Oh I know, but I always think it never hurts to say what I would want (or not want) to see in a game.

[tmp7704]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If the choice comes down to:

A) More variety of choice in the game itself, resulting in a DA:O type epilogue
Less variety of choice in the game itself, resulting in a cinematic epilogue

I'm taking A every time. No question.  An ending doesn't become less significant just becase it's text.

Problem with DA2 is, the results of your choices are supposed to be seen in the game itself rather than at the very end. So it may mean amount of work that needs to be put into these variations is closer to the B rather than A. Unless they go with "text approach" which going by the ME2/Awakening/Witch Hunt boils down to getting a letter or bit of flavour text on the map. Which isn't bad per se but... well, it does make the choices feel rather pointless after the 3rd letter you get or so (if all choice outcomes get reduced to that)

Modifié par tmp7704, 24 octobre 2010 - 12:59 .

[ankuu]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

ankuu wrote...

That is simply great! Beauitful! But i can surely understand that they can't do everything...i remember that scene they've cut out, with Morrigan talking to Alistair b4 coming to the fem Warden to tell her about the DR. I've read the comic and i just wanted to see that i movement....maybe a mod will recover that as well?

I suppose you are refering to this scene? http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1611 it was made from bits and parts of other conversations but fairly interesting in movement.

I love you! <3 I hope they will release the toolset for DA2, so we can get these scenes from the modding community at least:D

[Niire]

So, putting in the DA2 toolset, at some point, being it at release, or later, would be a win-win situation, yes?

Bioware tells the tale as they interpret it, and modders can add onto the gaming world, adding more to the story. It's honestly the toolsets and mods that have made every Bioware game I have played so immersive. Just when you think there's nothing else to add...out comes something new, and you're dragged back in again.

So...can't we all just get along?

[tuppence95]

As one of the testers on DahliaLynn's team, I'd like to emphasize what a time-intensive project this was for her.  She had spent months on it by the time the testers joined her.  The mod works so smoothly now that it's hard to imagine how much work it was.  Little things like the shots of the guests were quite a chore.  They had to be arranged in a way that wouldn't leave obvious holes in the crowd if many of those people had been killed or sent away in a warden's story.

I agree that doing scenes like this, that would appeal to only a small percentage of the players, wouldn't be a smart use of Bioware's time.  But I'd like to add my voice to the hope that a toolset will eventually be made available for DA2.  I love DA:O.  It's at the top of my list of favorite games.  But I doubt it would still be in that position after almost a year if it wasn't for the modders.

[Saibh]

tuppence95 wrote...

As one of the testers on DahliaLynn's team, I'd like to emphasize what a time-intensive project this was for her.  She had spent months on it by the time the testers joined her.  The mod works so smoothly now that it's hard to imagine how much work it was.  Little things like the shots of the guests were quite a chore.  They had to be arranged in a way that wouldn't leave obvious holes in the crowd if many of those people had been killed or sent away in a warden's story.

I agree that doing scenes like this, that would appeal to only a small percentage of the players, wouldn't be a smart use of Bioware's time.  But I'd like to add my voice to the hope that a toolset will eventually be made available for DA2.  I love DA:O.  It's at the top of my list of favorite games.  But I doubt it would still be in that position after almost a year if it wasn't for the modders.

I understand why they won't do it. But like Anarya says, I want to have my cake and eat it too. It's so much more gratifying to see a video epilogue over a bunch of paragraphs. Because of that, I felt a rush of disappointment when I ended my first playthrough. I should have felt more excited, but my feelings of accomplishment were diminished. I don't blame the devs at all, but this is something that I would love to see at the end of DA2.

I'll also point out that, while DahliaLynn is very talented and I love her work, she's also one person who is not a professional--especially one who designed the game. It also probably isn't her job to make cutscenes, so if she wanted to take a break for a week or a month, she's free to.

Unless I really missed something.

Modifié par Saibh, 24 octobre 2010 - 03:25 .