151 réponses à ce sujet

[TJPags]

Saibh wrote...

TJPags wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Seriously, how many different epilogue slides were there in DAO? Think about that for a minute.

Alistair king, hardened. Alistair king, unhardened. Alistair king, hardened, married Anora. Alistair king hardened, married HNF. Alistair king, unhardened, married Anora. Alistair king, unhardened, married HNF. That's 6, just from making Alistair king - and doesn't include possible romances with CEF, DEF, DNF, DCF's.

Do you realize how many different possible cutscenes they'd have to make to cover all possible choices thoughout the game?

That's a bit disingenous when you consider there's no need for different cutscene for each of these variants. In this particular example you'd need one for married ruler and one for single. The rest is either minor variations or simple actor replacements, very much like it's done for the other cutscenes which are actually put in the game.

Granted it's still considerable work involved, but there's no need to blow it out of proportions.

My point was, you need - just for weddings- 3 cutscenes - Anora marries Alistair, Anora marries HNM, Alistair marries HNF.  Now, what about people who didn't play a HN, or did and still didn't marry someone or arrange a marriage?

You assume that the cutscenes need to be that different. They don't--just replace Anora with the HNF or Alistair with the HNM. Set Anora to no smiling and possibly no kissing.

No one's saying it isn't hard (well...I'm not), but it's misleading to say that all of those are really three unique cutscenes. That's like saying they had to do a ton of work

Two more custscenes - crown Anora, crown Alistair.

...That cutscene is in the game.

What about people who want a "ride off into the sunset" ending?  More cuscenes - PC travels with his love Leliana; PC travels with HER love, Leliana; PC travels with Sten; PC travels with his friend, Leliana; PC travels with love interest Zevran (x2, of course), etc, etc, etc.

The PC never seems to canonically travel with Sten. I guess Sten moves on without her/him, but there's no difference in the ending or Awakening's plot if that was the option you chose. Also, PC can't travel with Leliana if they're just friends. Zevran can stay with a friend PC, but that doesn't really warrant a cutscene.

And again, the cutscenes don't need to actually alter if gender is different. They just replace a female Warden with a male Warden or vice versa. So you have a cutscene with Leliana and a cutscene with Zevran. If they wanted to save for time and resources, a "ride off into the sunset" ending could be identical for Alistair, Zevran, and Leliana.

Also, if the cutscenes were voiced over, they wouldn't need to show everything--a cutscene of Bhelen or Harrowmont ruling could cover anything that happens with Dagna, Brother Burkel, etc. Hell, I'd just prefer to see my Warden's ending--I don't need everyone's.

I've never made Alistair king, but I can say absolutely that there is no cutscene in which Anora is crowned Queen - not on the 360, anyway.  So, yea, they'd have to make that.

And frankly, just swapping out Alistair for Anora, or vice versa, in the same scene - pretty cheap.  And, you'd also have to swap out the HNM for the HNF, or vice versa - or just leave an empty slot.

Meh, I'd still rather they spent their time doing something else besides making these cutscenes, whether they'd actually have to make 3, or 26 or whatever.  It's a nice touch, but not needed, and one more place for bugs to crop up.  Leave it to modders.

[Saibh]

TJPags wrote...

I've never made Alistair king, but I can say absolutely that there is no cutscene in which Anora is crowned Queen - not on the 360, anyway.  So, yea, they'd have to make that.

Really.

And frankly, just swapping out Alistair for Anora, or vice versa, in the same scene - pretty cheap.  And, you'd also have to swap out the HNM for the HNF, or vice versa - or just leave an empty slot.

Yes, they can all swap out for each other. Why would a wedding be that different? All that would really need to change is the expression on the faces. I don't think it's that cheap, and Queen Cousland is my favorite playthrough.

Modifié par Saibh, 25 octobre 2010 - 02:51 .

[TJPags]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TJPags wrote...

I never got that.

What decisions from DAO are really shown on screen in Awakening, other than who is king/queen?

The issue ultimately is continuity for players who wished to continue exerting influence over Thedas despite their Warden taking the Ultimate Sacrifice.   Why not import the actions of the sacrificial Warden of Origins and the Orlesian Warden of Awakenings into Dragon Age 2 and see the results of the actions those two people took?  The problem with the way Awakenings worked is that for the player to exert maximum influence on his or her imported save, they had to do it through one character, which facilitated either a Redeemer or Dark Promise endgame in Origins.  

It took that choice out of the player's hands.  That's the problem.

Well, first, it's kind of silly to want to exert influence once you're dead.  But anyway:

Again, the only real, significant choices that might be said to have any impact on a world would be, who is King/Queen of Ferelden, and who rules Orzamar.  Does it matter is Cammaen and Gheyna get together, or if you cut a deal with the Eleven slaver or kill him?

They made Awakening Canon into Alistair King . . . that's really the only complaint I can see, for those who made Anora Queen.  Otherwise, I've yet to see anyone tell me what choices are somehow left out by this.

And since, as I understand, DA2 imports an Awakening save, your Orelsian choices will be there - such as they are.  Far as I can see, the only real issue there is, did you burn Amaranthine or not?  Either way, it still gets rebuilt,. so does it really matter?

[TJPags]

Saibh wrote...

TJPags wrote...

I've never made Alistair king, but I can say absolutely that there is no cutscene in which Anora is crowned Queen - not on the 360, anyway.  So, yea, they'd have to make that.

Really.

And frankly, just swapping out Alistair for Anora, or vice versa, in the same scene - pretty cheap.  And, you'd also have to swap out the HNM for the HNF, or vice versa - or just leave an empty slot.

Yes, they can all swap out for each other. Why would a wedding be that different? All that would really need to change is the expression on the faces. I don't think it's that cheap, and Queen Cousland is my favorite playthrough.

That scene has NEVER played in ANY game I've completed.  Seriously.  Maybe it only triggers if you use the Loghain redeemer, or maybe my game is screwed, but my ending scene always starts with Anora standing on the dais, giving her speech.  I've never seen her walk up the steps and kneel like that.  Ever.

As for the other, to each their own, I guess.

[Saibh]

TJPags wrote...

That scene has NEVER played in ANY game I've completed.  Seriously.  Maybe it only triggers if you use the Loghain redeemer, or maybe my game is screwed, but my ending scene always starts with Anora standing on the dais, giving her speech.  I've never seen her walk up the steps and kneel like that.  Ever.

As for the other, to each their own, I guess.

No, it always triggers. For every playthrough--the only difference is what king or queen is showing up in there. You have some really specific, odd glitch, or else you're not recalling it (which is doubtful). I've played every playthrough that can be played, and it always appears.

[TJPags]

I'm almost done with a playthrough now, and I'll watch for it. I haven't actually finished a game in a bit, so it's possible I've forgotten it, but I'd think not.



We'll see what happens.

[Maverick827]

Without knowing how many story "threads," so to speak, that DAII will have, I don't think we can say for certain how many (if any) outcomes are worthy of an epilogue cutscene.

That said, I think it is not too much to ask for a partially voiced epilogue, covering what BioWare deems important, in front of which our modders (if we get a toolkit) can put their own cutscenes.

[Dave of Canada]

Maverick827 wrote...

That said, I think it is not too much to ask for a partially voiced epilogue, covering what BioWare deems important, in front of which our modders (if we get a toolkit) can put their own cutscenes.

Duncan's voice narrating how Alistair became a drunkard would've been pretty awesome for Origins.

[Saibh]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

That said, I think it is not too much to ask for a partially voiced epilogue, covering what BioWare deems important, in front of which our modders (if we get a toolkit) can put their own cutscenes.

Duncan's voice narrating how Alistair became a drunkard would've been pretty awesome for Origins.

Especially intoning in his grandoise way. 

Also, it'd give us a special excuse to see Drunk Alistair. I'm really curious on how he'd look for DA2, what with the new morph system.

[upsettingshorts]

TJPags wrote...
Well, first, it's kind of silly to want to exert influence once you're dead. 

The player isn't dead.  The Warden is.  We're going to continue to alter the world of Thedas through Hawke in DA2, who is most certainly a different character, just like the Orlesian.  

Also, I heard Duncan's voice in New Vegas and at first I lol'd, then I wanted to chew him out for keeping the Warden's secrets from Cailan and Loghain.  But that ship has sailed.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 octobre 2010 - 03:26 .

[Fortlowe]

If ever there was a game that proved to cliche "Joy is found in the journey, not the destination." it is Dragon Age.  And that's about as serious as I'm gonna be for a while.
DERP

[Dave of Canada]

Fortlowe wrote...

If ever there was a game that proved to cliche "Joy is found in the journey, not the destination." it is Dragon Age.  And that's about as serious as I'm gonna be for a while.
DERP

True, I'm always sad in the epilogue because the game is ending and I'm saying good bye to the entire cast.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 25 octobre 2010 - 03:28 .

[Maverick827]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

If ever there was a game that proved to cliche "Joy is found in the journey, not the destination." it is Dragon Age.  And that's about as serious as I'm gonna be for a while.
DERP

True, I'm always sad in the epilogue because the game is ending and I'm saying good bye to the entire cast.

It's much worse when you finish a good book, in my opinion.  When I finish a game like Dragon Age, I'm still excited because I can play it again with all the metagaming goodness that comes with a second playthrough.

[Lord_Anthonior]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Duncan's voice narrating how Alistair became a drunkard would've been pretty awesome for Origins.

"And then, it was over...alistair became a haggard drunk claiming to be once a grey warden and a prince maybe never to be seen again..." (in duncan's voice) that would've been cool, he was also the voice of the master of the assassin order in assassins creed so that actor had wisdom in his voice as Liam Neeson as a jedi.

@fortlowe yeah to me too, I preffer the entire game than reaching the end of it, lately I don't even walk outside for the celebration I just start awakening and the other DLC's, also to avoid any bugs and besides, my choices are always the same in the important cases, I just want start playing again.

[Sable Rhapsody]

...I never understood this obsession with an iron-clad ending. I honestly don't need to see my Warden and Alistair get married, have kids, file their tax forms, fight over the state of Alistair's socks, do dishes, and even kill the occasional darkspawn. I'm quite happy with "and then they disappeared off into the sunset and presumably had awesome badass lives."

[turian councilor Knockout]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

...I never understood this obsession with an iron-clad ending. I honestly don't need to see my Warden and Alistair get married, have kids, file their tax forms, fight over the state of Alistair's socks, do dishes, and even kill the occasional darkspawn. I'm quite happy with "and then they disappeared off into the sunset and presumably had awesome badass lives."

Agreed, This is not Fable.

        

[tmp7704]

TJPags wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Really.

That scene has NEVER played in ANY game I've completed.  Seriously.  Maybe it only triggers if you use the Loghain redeemer, or maybe my game is screwed, but my ending scene always starts with Anora standing on the dais, giving her speech.  I've never seen her walk up the steps and kneel like that.  Ever.

Nah, it certainly plays in other scenarios as well, on the PC at least -- i had it trigger also in game where Anora was made queen and Loghain was executed, and in another where Alistair was to be king but then he sacrificed himself leaving the throne for Anora. Maybe there's indeed something screwed with your game, or it simply slipped from the mind being it's not that memorable.

Regarding whether just swapping actors for scenes would be cheap, you'll note these two scenes with Anora and Alistair being crowned in the original game... are done exactly in this manner. Overall scene is the same, it's just the actor that changes.

Alistair's ending
Anora's ending

Modifié par tmp7704, 25 octobre 2010 - 09:55 .

[Lord_Anthonior]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

...I never understood this obsession with an iron-clad ending. I honestly don't need to see my Warden and Alistair get married, have kids, file their tax forms, fight over the state of Alistair's socks, do dishes, and even kill the occasional darkspawn. I'm quite happy with "and then they disappeared off into the sunset and presumably had awesome badass lives."

Agreed, This is not Fable.

        

At least they'll save money in education and tuitions because they can't have children, I don't know where did I read it in the forums but somewhere unicorns where mentioned since griffons existed. Maker help us!!

"This is not  Fable" 

[mopotter]

Bobad wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

We absolutely could do it.

We just chose not to, because we have X amount of time to make an entire game, and for everything you do, something else doesn't get done.

In an example like this, a scene that can only be viewed by human noble females who have successfully had a romance with alistair AND who chose the ritual represents a reasonably small portion of the audience. Therefore, the effort could be better spent on a scene that, say, 90% of people will see instead of 10%.

I really don't understand why people feel the need to imply we're incompetent because we don't do every possible thing we could do. Am I incompetent because I chose to go to a movie instead of skydiving one Saturday?

An incompetent skydiver perhaps, analogously, no.  I'd have loved a little daft adventure with any LI but yes, I undertsand why not and I really do like a little of the end game to be up to my imagination.

I agree.  I don't need a wedding at the end of the game.   Not ever committed couple gets married.  

But Mr. Laidlaw, I think you are over-reacting just a little.  I didn't see anywhere the words incompetent.  Most of us think BioWare has some of the best in the business.  The player mods are just extra strawberries on a great  chocolate cake  (food the greatest thing next to video games).  Not everyone wants them but they are nice if you do.      Skydiving - movie - I'll take extra butter on my popcorn please.  


'

[mopotter]

Zjarcal wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Two completely different target demographics, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Oh? But ME is quite shorter, appeals to a large enough of the Bioware community group. I'm unable to find it but the stastistics for DA:O weren't that very different either.

I think that statistic applies to almost every game in the market. It is sadly a fact that a large percentage of gamers never finish the games they start playing.

I always wonder how they get statistics like this.  I usually start 3 or 4 games before I actually finish one, if I have choices in looks and class.  But it's because when I make the character it does not look the way I thought it would or I want to try a different class to see what I like best.  There have been games I started and took back, but they have always been games like halo or left for dead.  

[mopotter]

Zjarcal wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

For me a mod like this would not work .
It's like reading the Lord of the Ring and someone erase an important part of the book and replace it with something he find more interesting.

It's just not ... i dunno .It's feel misplaced and stupid.It's like a mod that let you roamance Sten ..

I wonder how the writer feel when they see stuff like this.I think David Gaider said something that seem similiar to this regarding fanfic .. Personnaly i don't read them for the same reason . If you want your story .. Create YOUR story and leave the work of other alone.

The only mod i use it's the one that does not change the story for some reason .. I just could not read an altered version of the original work . That why i don't read the bible.

lol


Now don't get me wrong.I see the work and the talent into this ... But...
No thanks.

How on earth does this mod change the story? It will only play for those who chose to marry Alistair and were in romance with him (and assuming they both survived the final fight).

It doesn't alter the story for those players in any way.

I like the idea of mods.  I have one for a romance with Ser Gilmore because I didn't like what they did with the Alistair romance (witch/Alistair/sex), but I know a lot of people did like it or didn't really care.  

 edit - Alistair marriage - it's been too long and now that  I've written this I can't remember if you marry Alistair without being queen.  so  I deleted part of it.

Modifié par mopotter, 25 octobre 2010 - 12:08 .

[Riona45]

mopotter wrote...
 edit - Alistair marriage - it's been too long and now that  I've written this I can't remember if you marry Alistair without being queen.  so  I deleted part of it.

You can be with Alistair without being queen (ie. you both continue being active Grey Wardens*), but there's nothing in the game that states you get married.  Of course, that doesn't mean you can't get married if that's what you imagine happening.

*Or become his mistress, but in that case I think it's obvious that you won't be getting married.

Modifié par Riona45, 26 octobre 2010 - 01:41 .

[Squeeze the Fish]

I can't say I wouldn't enjoy seeing something like this...even if I am in the minority. I know you (Mike) mentioned not having unlimited resources, but what if people paid for it? Like DLC? Maybe you could have a poll where people vote on which ending they'd like to see as DLC and make the top three?

I don't know if there'd be enough interest and there'd probably be a lot of backlash from people who didn't want to pay for something like that...

...but I would! (Especially since I have the PS version and can't access the mod!)

*shrugs*

I'm content with what we have, I suppose.

Modifié par Squeeze the Fish, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:04 .

[Addai]

Face of Evil wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

I don't think anyone is saying the vanilla ending was bad. But for those who chose the Alistair romance (and the marriage option), this is a brilliant way to conclude the journey.

And I applaud the efforts of whoever created that mod, but I will never play an HN female and never end up marrying Alistair. So why should Bioware cater to you and not to me?

*cough* Leliana's Song  *cough*  Witch Hunt

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Right now, if I put myself in their shoes - though I obviously don't know them - releasing a toolset upgrade seems almost like charity.  Perhaps in the form of enlightened self-interest but nonetheless not substantially rewarding.

Besides contributing value- that's not charity, it is the same thing companies provide under "customer service"- it is also an advertising tool.  My video of DahliaLynn's "Alistair first night" scene* has gotten 11,000 hits on YouTube in just a couple months with many commenters saying it should have been in the vanilla game, wailing about their consoles etc.  I realize that is small potatoes and also does not always extend to sales, but I mention it just to illustrate that a toolset turns a good product into a premium one.  Particularly for an RPG where customization is a watchword.

*Kudos also have go to tmp7704 for the after-scene and cmessaz for packaging it in Improved Romance Scenes.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 novembre 2010 - 10:17 .