576 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

Xilizhra wrote...

What insulting thing does she say there?

Wynne: "The hero of Ferelden." My, my. How does it feel? (amused, this is what everyone is calling the player)
PC: I'm not the one who killed the archdemon.
Wynne: Dead heroes are all fine and well, I understand, but living heroes give the people something to gawk at. And by something, I mean you. (amused) But it's not so bad, is it? A Blight defeated with the other nations barely becoming aware. Who could ask for better? (she is saying "you did really good") 

1) PC: Alistair, probably.
Wynne: I suppose there is that. Poor boy. (sad) I'm glad not to be on the receiving end of all this attention, myself. I say let the young have their fame. (amused) 

2) PC:  Loghain, probably.
Wynne: Well, he could hardly have <emp>expected</emp> better. Especially considering his example. (finds it hard to summon sympathy for him) I'm glad not to be on the receiving end of all this attention, myself. I say let the young have their fame. (amused) 

Even with Alistair, she's sad for two seconds and then back to celebrating. With Loghain, she really doesn't care. I don't like Wynne personally but had she been the one to end the Blight by killing the Archdemon and died to save everyone, I would respect it and not be all 'well, I didn't like her anyway so let's party!' like she is.

[Wulfram]

It's not like anyone else cares about Alistair's death. Blame Bioware for that.

As for Loghain, she's nicer about him than he deserves.(edit:  It's not like the Warden is his family or anything)

Modifié par Wulfram, 27 octobre 2010 - 05:42 .

[Xilizhra]

I admit, that bit does give me a bit of an urge to kill her at the Ashes... but that time is long past.

[Sarah1281]

Wulfram wrote...

It's not like anyone else cares about Alistair's death. Blame Bioware for that.

As for Loghain, she's nicer about him than he deserves.(edit:  It's not like the Warden is his family or anything)

How is she nicer about Loghain than he deserves? When Loghain dies to end the Blight and save everyone in Ferelden including her he deserves worse than Wynne not caring in the slightest? Regardless of if you like him or not, his death saved Ferelden and that actions should be respected no matter who does it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

It's not like anyone else cares about Alistair's death. Blame Bioware for that.

As for Loghain, she's nicer about him than he deserves.(edit:  It's not like the Warden is his family or anything)

How is she nicer about Loghain than he deserves? When Loghain dies to end the Blight and save everyone in Ferelden including her he deserves worse than Wynne not caring in the slightest? Regardless of if you like him or not, his death saved Ferelden and that actions should be respected no matter who does it.

Add the fact that she admitted she was wrong about him.

[Wulfram]

Loghain's death saved the PCs life, no more. The Archdemon was defeated anyway, the question is who takes the final blow.



That's maybe enough to make up for the various times he tried to kill the PC - and it at least gave my PC something vaguely polite to say to his daughter - but it's a long way from redeeming all the other things he's done.

[Sarah1281]

Wulfram wrote...

Loghain's death saved the PCs life, no more. The Archdemon was defeated anyway, the question is who takes the final blow.

That's maybe enough to make up for the various times he tried to kill the PC - and it at least gave my PC something vaguely polite to say to his daughter - but it's a long way from redeeming all the other things he's done.

Loghain's death ended the Blight and THAT saved everybody. Maybe if Loghain wasn't there you could have done it but you didn't. His actions didn't just save you, they saved everybody because he was the one that did them. Sure, the PC could have but they didn't.

It doesn't have to 'make up' for anything to be an action deserving of a little respect that Wynne does not give.

[Reaverwind]

Wulfram wrote...

It's not like anyone else cares about Alistair's death. Blame Bioware for that.

As for Loghain, she's nicer about him than he deserves.(edit:  It's not like the Warden is his family or anything)

Entirely missing the point - which is Wynne being dismissive of what the Warden thinks, or feels. She does Morrigan proud - "Your man is dead - get over it."

[Wulfram]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Loghain's death ended the Blight and THAT saved everybody. Maybe if Loghain wasn't there you could have done it but you didn't. His actions didn't just save you, they saved everybody because he was the one that did them. Sure, the PC could have but they didn't.

It doesn't have to 'make up' for anything to be an action deserving of a little respect that Wynne does not give.

Well, I disagree.

I'll give my respect to the thousands who died to defeat the blight who weren't murdering slaver bastards.

[Sarah1281]

You don't have to forgive him everything to respect that he willing died to save the country and if it weren't for his death everyone else would have died. I would respect that action, again, no matter who took it or how horrible a person they were.

[Ryzaki]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You don't have to forgive him everything to respect that he willing died to save the country and if it weren't for his death everyone else would have died. I would respect that action, again, no matter who took it or how horrible a person they were.

Uh...the Warden suddenly non-existant now? 

If not for him a lot of people who ended up dead wouldn't have been, if not for him a lot of people alive wouldn't have been.

The dude saved some lives and cost others. His action was one of self-sacrifice to be true but saying everyone has to respect him no matter what he did to them personally is nonsense.

The action itself is deserving of respect. Not the character.

That's like saying the DEs should respect the Warden who slaughtered a whole clan because he died to save the blight. They can respect him dying for the fight while thinking the Warden himself was scum of the earth and better of dead.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:43 .

[Wulfram]

Maybe respect the action, but there's nothing which suggests that she doesn't do so. Just that she's not particularly sad that he's dead.

[Sarah1281]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You don't have to forgive him everything to respect that he willing died to save the country and if it weren't for his death everyone else would have died. I would respect that action, again, no matter who took it or how horrible a person they were.

Uh...the Warden suddenly non-existant now? 

Why the **** is this so hard to communicate?!?! 

Let's go with a very vague situation. Enemy X needs to be killed in order to save country Y. Person A and Person B are the only ones who can kill X. Person B kills X. Person B's actions are no less worthy of respect because Person A might have been able to pull it off as well. Say Person A killed X instead. Person A's actions are no less worthy of respect because Person B might have been able to do the same. If the Warden does the US then it is no less worthy of respect because Alistair or Loghain could have done it just as easily. If Loghain dies to end the Blight then that is no less worthy of respect because the Warden could have done it.

If the US is done then the Warden deserves the respect for ending the Blight because they did it. It doesn't matter how many other people could have, the Warden is the one who actually did.

If Alistair died to end the Blight, then he deserves the respect no matter how many other people could have but didn't.

If Loghain died then, guess what? The respect is his. It doesn't matter that the Warden could have becuase, again, the Warden didn't. And unlike Alistair who sometimes gives the Warden no choice, Loghain allows the Warden to US if they wish. If they didn't and allowed Loghain to give his life instead then they chose not to end the Blight. They chose to have Loghain do it.

[Ryzaki]

I answered that already.

Person X caused the lives of thousands. Person Y saved thousands (potentially) or maybe they killed a lot less people.

Person X saves the world. Yay. Person X saving the world might be respected while his character is condemned. They're happy he saved the world but that doens't make him a better person all of a sudden. The same for Person Y.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:44 .

[Sarah1281]

The dude saved some lives and cost others. His action was one of self-sacrifice to be true but saying everyone has to respect him no matter what he did to them personally is nonsense.



The action itself is deserving of respect. Not the character.

AND ALL I SAID WAS THAT SHE SHOULD RESPECT THAT HE DIED TO SAVE EVERYONE. I DID NOT ONCE CLAIM THAT HIM DYING MADE EVERYTHING OKAY AND THAT THEREFORE SHE SHOULD RESPECT HIM PERSONALLY SO IF YOU GUYS WANT TO STOP TELLING ME THAT I'M WRONG FOR SOMETHING I DIDN'T SAY, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

[Ryzaki]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The dude saved some lives and cost others. His action was one of self-sacrifice to be true but saying everyone has to respect him no matter what he did to them personally is nonsense.

The action itself is deserving of respect. Not the character.

AND ALL I SAID WAS THAT SHE SHOULD RESPECT THAT HE DIED TO SAVE EVERYONE. I DID NOT ONCE CLAIM THAT HIM DYING MADE EVERYTHING OKAY AND THAT THEREFORE SHE SHOULD RESPECT HIM PERSONALLY SO IF YOU GUYS WANT TO STOP TELLING ME THAT I'M WRONG FOR SOMETHING I DIDN'T SAY, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

CAPS!LOCK!

How do you know she didnt?  Nothing in the dialogue suggests she didn't. She simply says he couldn't have expected better than the honorable death he got. And she finds it hard to feel sympathy nothing about respect.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:48 .

[ejoslin]

Well, Loghain over the course of his military career probably did a lot more good than harm... it was just that last year where he messed up... Cauthrien is right when she points out (hahahaha, not that she is alive in my games most often TO point this out but...) that if it weren't for Loghain, there would have been no Ferelden to save.

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

Well, Loghain over the course of his military career probably did a lot more good than harm... it was just that last year where he messed up... Cauthrien is right when she points out (hahahaha, not that she is alive in my games most often TO point this out but...) that if it weren't for Loghain, there would have been no Ferelden to save.

True that. But doing more good than harm doesn't invalidate the harm you did to certain people. (Hell the Warden did more good than harm being the most ruthless bastard in the game and can perform the US that doesn't make him any more worthy of respect from certain people either).

Hah. I think this is the first time I agreed with Wynne on something.

Take Renegade Shep in ME series for example: He saved the citadel from Soverign (I can't spell its name to save my life D:) and the Geth but he can be a complete and utter douchebag. His actions with the Citadel deserve respect but his character leaves a lot to be desired.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:54 .

[Bruddajakka]

At the end of the day even though she claims not to be she's been very heavily indoctrinated by which makes all her advice very bias. Since it's almost always pro-chantry, pro-circle which I suppose is why she gets on so well with Alistair since he's very much of a similar view point in a lot of his beliefs. Hell half the time I have her, and Morrigan in the party because I like listening to them **** at each other.

[Bahlgan]

During all of your life ppl that care about you , will lecture you.get over it and .....grow up?

Heh heh so true. Many people will try and lecture you. I have learned that while those people will try and give advice, even though not the best, will at least do so to help you in life. Doesn't mean, however, that they deserve to die or deserve to be crucified by others for their nature. Apparently there are some here who choose to label every lecturer as someone "who knows nothing" and deserves to die by their hand alone. I can see them in real life, people who probably would blow up a building because they are tired of taking it and don't wanna face it anymore. Quite sick indeed. Anyway, I can see that I am typing to a bunch of whiny little kids who are in the bodies of "adults" who think they know everything.

@Sarah - so just because someone trying to give advice even though he/she knows about makes that person know nothing? Quite honestly that sounds completely hasty. So it's not like he/she could have LEARNED it from anyone else? Nice caps in previous sentence by the way, really mature. Keep on truckin.

@ Elsojin, if there was anything more offensive than your dialect towards me in trying to help earlier poster explain his thread, then perhaps it is your impression that I believe all older people are always condescending. That is NOT what I meant by the way and you know that. I do not appreciate you trying to blow things out of proportion, but it seems all Wynne haters do.

Modifié par Bahlgan, 28 octobre 2010 - 12:11 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Nevermind, not worth the effort.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 octobre 2010 - 12:14 .

[Xilizhra]

I suspect most people who want to kill Wynne do so because of her Ashes treachery.

[Giggles_Manically]

I dont want to kill her.

I just find her to be a gigantic hypocrite, who knows nothing really and acts like the most wise person ever born.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I dont want to kill her.
I just find her to be a gigantic hypocrite, who knows nothing really and acts like the most wise person ever born.

No no. Deep inside, you want to blow up buildings, everyone knows it.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I dont want to kill her.
I just find her to be a gigantic hypocrite, who knows nothing really and acts like the most wise person ever born.

No no. Deep inside, you want to blow up buildings, everyone knows it.

Yes you saw right through me KoP.

Secretly I hate everyone who lectures me, and is so much wiser and experienced.
It just eats at me so!

I just have to commit an act of terrorism now!