576 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Bahlgan wrote...

@ Elsojin, if there was anything more offensive than your dialect towards me in trying to help earlier poster explain his thread, then perhaps it is your impression that I believe all older people are always condescending. That is NOT what I meant by the way and you know that. I do not appreciate you trying to blow things out of proportion, but it seems all Wynne haters do.

You said it, not I  Let me go dig up your exact quote.  

Edit: Here it is!

Bahlgan wrote...

@ Ejoslin - really? To me that is not what he was saying at all. See my above post - I believe he merely was saying that all those around the senior citizen age just merely act it. They feel like they have not much time left and so they try to mentor others who are younger and might make faulty choices. Please don't over react.

I'm amazed you don't see this as a bigoted comment.  My guess is you're quite a bit younger than I am!  If you meant something DIFFERENT from what you write, you should articulate it a little bit better.  To me, this looks like you either are agreeing with a bigoted statement, or trying to explain something to me that it was very clear I already understood and thought offensive.

Second edit: I'll help you here.  I do NOT believe that all those around the senior citizen age act in a certain way (or as you put it, "act it").  I do NOT feel that everyone who is around the senior citizen age feel like they have not much time left and so they try to mentor others who are younger and might make faulty choices.

Plus, I feel Wynne gives ****** poor advice, and her assumption that the warden is an immature, naive child is pretty offensive.

If Wynne were a Gray Warden, she'd be qualified to give advice in that area.  If she were a war general, she'd be qualified to give advice in that area.  If Wynne were willing to take on a real leadership role (she turned down being First Enchanter, remember this), then she'd be qualified to give advice in that area.  And her romantic advice -- very VERY hurtful, and completely unnecessary.  The potential hurt she seems to think is proper is awful.  And the way she presents it?  Even worse.

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 octobre 2010 - 01:16 .

[Sarah1281]

@Sarah - so just because someone trying to give advice even though he/she knows about makes that person know nothing? Quite honestly that sounds completely hasty. So it's not like he/she could have LEARNED it from anyone else? Nice caps in previous sentence by the way, really mature. Keep on truckin.

I just find it really frustrating when people misrepresent what I wrote time and time and time again. You should be aware of this since you've done it time and time and time again yourself.



So, to clarify: If someone has heard all sorts of stories about firefighting heroics but know nothing about the practicality of being a fire fighter and I was a brand new fire fighter, I would not appreciate their stories of how a fire fighter should behave, think, whatever. It's not her place to say and I don't want to hear myths. Wynne may have heard about being a Grey Warden from others and she's absorbed their myths. The way she seems to think that the order itself and not just individual Wardens has any sort of moral standards pretty much blows the 'Wynne is some sort of expert' theory out of the water. Now, I'm not saying Wynne knows nothing. If I wanted her advice on how to be a mage then she might be able to help me there. If I wanted to know with how to cope with accepting things I can't change then I could also go to her. Advice on dealing with fear and hatred from the common folk? Maybe she could help.



Unsolicitated Grey Warden advice? No thanks. She's as clueless about that as my non-mage Wardens are about being mages. Would she really appreciated if I presumed to try to lecture her on how a mage should be?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Yes you saw right through me KoP.

Oh the credit isn't mine, I recieved that enlightnment from elsewhere.

[Reaverwind]

Xilizhra wrote...

I suspect most people who want to kill Wynne do so because of her Ashes treachery.

Never experienced that. It's actually a combination of things:

1) Forced into your party without a plot reason

2) Spouts platitudes - always an epic fail

3) Dispensing BAD advice on matters with which she has no experience

4) Speaking like an idiot with Aneirin

5) Gets angry at mage Warden for not wanting to be part of her Circle plans

-and the icing on the cake-

6) Epilogue dialogue

[Zjarcal]

Andraste's ass, seventeen pages of Wynne hate and I'm yet to participate!!!



Ok, it's late so i'll just leave some lovely screenies of Zevran giving it to the old hag:















And the happiest moment in the game... the hag is dead!!

[Avilia]

and peace reigned in the Tower...

[Elhanan]

With the exception of her intrusion into the romance options, I find Wynne to be one of the most likeable adds to my parties, and one of the most common selections.

While she says 'we' to the Sloth demon, I find it more irritating that Irving automatically gives credit to Wynne. I believe Dog may be the only party memeber that does not try to take credit during the course of the game, but even the Mabari barks at some inopportune occasions.

And w/o reviewing all the posts seen here, I have seen a fair share of posts appearing on the boards that may suggest some bias against those of a religious faith like Wynne. I am not saying that she is picked upon, nor does one have to like her, but she seems to push buttons on many Player seen here.

[Avilia]

I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I can say quite categorically that Wynne's faith has nothing to do my dislike for the character.  I wasn't aware she was considered particularly pious but I'm often proven wrong in these things.

I find unsolicited advice from people I barely know annoying in real life, so I'm hardly going to put up with it in a game.  I don't find her advice particularly useful or insightful but apparently that means I'm immature and hate my elders (or something).

Just in case I'm now accused of being evil I'll say I don't like Morrigan either and am in the habit of removing her from my party at Lothering.

Its a game you see and I like to make my game playing experience as irritant free as possible.

[Ryzaki]

Wow...jeez Avilia you're practically took the words out of my mouth. XD

[Elhanan]

Avilia wrote...

I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I can say quite categorically that Wynne's faith has nothing to do my dislike for the character.  I wasn't aware she was considered particularly pious but I'm often proven wrong in these things.

I find unsolicited advice from people I barely know annoying in real life, so I'm hardly going to put up with it in a game.  I don't find her advice particularly useful or insightful but apparently that means I'm immature and hate my elders (or something).

Just in case I'm now accused of being evil I'll say I don't like Morrigan either and am in the habit of removing her from my party at Lothering.

Its a game you see and I like to make my game playing experience as irritant free as possible.

I am aware that there are those that dislike Wynne for various reasons apart from the faith POV she presents, like the OP. But I have seen quite a lot of posts that dislike her pro-Chantry slant, and wonder where this dislike originates.

As for unsolicited advice, I also dislike the romance interruptions. But I cannot recall many times where her advice is forced upon us; just when we go to her for dialogue. And AFAIK, her character is not forced upon the party. She may stay at the Circle, or so I am guessing based on the dialogue choices seen at the end of that quest.

And for irritants, I am glad that this game is not a MMO.

[Avilia]

Elhanan wrote...

[snipped]

And for irritants, I am glad that this game is not a MMO.

You and me both!

[Sarah1281]

I am aware that there are those that dislike Wynne for various reasons apart from the faith POV she presents, like the OP. But I have seen quite a lot of posts that dislike her pro-Chantry slant, and wonder where this dislike originates.

Wynne herself tells you that she's not really all that religious. Her supporting the Chantry's treatment of mages and all that that entails isn't really about faith as that's more a secular policy. Her attempting to kill you over the Ashes is more about 'not destroying people's hope' according to her. And if it is a matter of faith, then I'd say that her faith only bothers me when she's actively trying to kill me because of it. All things considered, I'd say that that's pretty fair or am I supposed to be perfectly happy that her faith is driving her to seek my death?

Edit: And the Chantry, regardless of the good that it does do and whether or not they're right religiously, is a very corrupt organization with far too much political power and I've never been convinced that a church with political power is a good thing. That's where I have issues with the Chantry.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 28 octobre 2010 - 12:33 .

[Reaverwind]

Elhanan wrote...
And w/o reviewing all the posts seen here, I have seen a fair share of posts appearing on the boards that may suggest some bias against those of a religious faith like Wynne. I am not saying that she is picked upon, nor does one have to like her, but she seems to push buttons on many Player seen here.

What faith? The woman doesn't have any.

[Xilizhra]

Edit: And the Chantry, regardless of the good that it does do and whether or not they're right religiously, is a very corrupt organization with far too much political power and I've never been convinced that a church with political power is a good thing. That's where I have issues with the Chantry.

Very much so. The Chantry needs to be weakened or swept aside as a political institution, and I work towards that in-game.

[Bruddajakka]

She claims to not be religious but she is very indoctrinated. Hard not to be seeing as how she's lived in the circle her whole life.



Personally I do like her when she isn't preaching. Unfortunately that's her default mode.

[TheBlackBaron]

Bruddajakka wrote...

She claims to not be religious but she is very indoctrinated. Hard not to be seeing as how she's lived in the circle her whole life.

Personally I do like her when she isn't preaching. Unfortunately that's her default mode.

Yeah, I agree on that, I don't hate her - I don't really hate anybody in the party. Basically so long as she's not trying to tell me what to do I can work with her, and I don't really use her that much anyway (Rogues? Healers? Bah. All I need is some CC and a whole lotta swords). But as has been expounded upon several times over in this thread, the preaching on matters she has no experience of gets annoying fast. Her trying to tell us how a Grey Warden should act and believe is the worst of all, particularly as it pertains to the romances.

I know ejoslin gets upset at how she talks about Zevran, but for Warden/Morrigan, I'm actually more offended for myself than Morrigan. She basicially implies that since Morrigan's hawt, the Warden is being young, stupid, and going through his bad girl phase.

[ejoslin]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

She claims to not be religious but she is very indoctrinated. Hard not to be seeing as how she's lived in the circle her whole life.

Personally I do like her when she isn't preaching. Unfortunately that's her default mode.

Yeah, I agree on that, I don't hate her - I don't really hate anybody in the party. Basically so long as she's not trying to tell me what to do I can work with her, and I don't really use her that much anyway (Rogues? Healers? Bah. All I need is some CC and a whole lotta swords). But as has been expounded upon several times over in this thread, the preaching on matters she has no experience of gets annoying fast. Her trying to tell us how a Grey Warden should act and believe is the worst of all, particularly as it pertains to the romances.

I know ejoslin gets upset at how she talks about Zevran, but for Warden/Morrigan, I'm actually more offended for myself than Morrigan. She basicially implies that since Morrigan's hawt, the Warden is being young, stupid, and going through his bad girl phase.

I think we get upset over the LI's that we find important.  BUT...  The VO notes use the words, "disgusted," "disapproving," when describing how her voice should sound when talking about Zevran.  There is a little more zevran-specific dialog as well, talking about how it's not fitting for a Gray Warden to be involved with someone like him.

Morrigan, yes, she's discounting that it may be real and is not nice either.  Both are pretty bad.  But since I never romance Morrigan, I never see it!

[TheBlackBaron]

ejoslin wrote..
I think we get upset over the LI's that we find important.  BUT...  The VO notes use the words, "disgusted," "disapproving," when describing how her voice should sound when talking about Zevran.  There is a little more zevran-specific dialog as well, talking about how it's not fitting for a Gray Warden to be involved with someone like him.

Morrigan, yes, she's discounting that it may be real and is not nice either.  Both are pretty bad.  But since I never romance Morrigan, I never see it!

I know, I was just commenting on my own experiences from that angle. I've never romanced Zevran, so...yeah.

[Wulfram]

Well, Zevran projects the image of a man who cheerfully goes around murdering people and sleeping with anything that moves. It's not exactly an image calculated to get the approval of self appointed team grandmothers.



As for her talk about my favoured LI, my reaction is "Guileless?!!?? Did the whole Orlesian Bard thing pass you by?"

[ejoslin]

Wulfram wrote...

Well, Zevran projects the image of a man who cheerfully goes around murdering people and sleeping with anything that moves. It's not exactly an image calculated to get the approval of self appointed team grandmothers.

As for her talk about my favoured LI, my reaction is "Guileless?!!?? Did the whole Orlesian Bard thing pass you by?"

*sigh* Except for at that point, the romance has moved beyond casual.  Wynne has no problem with the way it looks when it IS casual -- she only objects when it's gone further than that.

Edit: Zevran as a romance partner really IS faithful.  Sure, he flirts, but I really don't think he's seriously trying to get the ones he's flirting with into bed.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 octobre 2010 - 04:46 .

[Wulfram]

ejoslin wrote...

*sigh* Except for at that point, the romance has moved beyond casual.  Wynne has no problem with the way it looks when it IS casual -- she only objects when it's gone further than that.

Edit: Zevran as a romance partner really IS faithful.  Sure, he flirts, but I really don't think he's seriously trying to get the ones he's flirting with into bed.  

I'm not talking about how Zevran is, i'm talking about the surface image he -  I think deliberately - projects.  The PC may know him better, but I don't think Wynne does.

[ejoslin]

Wulfram wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

*sigh* Except for at that point, the romance has moved beyond casual.  Wynne has no problem with the way it looks when it IS casual -- she only objects when it's gone further than that.

Edit: Zevran as a romance partner really IS faithful.  Sure, he flirts, but I really don't think he's seriously trying to get the ones he's flirting with into bed.  

I'm not talking about how Zevran is, i'm talking about the surface image he -  I think deliberately - projects.  The PC may know him better, but I don't think Wynne does.

You know, you have a good point there.  Wynne really does seem incapable of seeing beneath the surface.  You're right about Leliana, how she sees her as pure and guileless because of a sweet personality (which is probably a big factor of why she was so successful as a bard, actually).

I can't help but laugh, though, when Zevran goes on about her magical bosom.  OMG, she may live the next time I play through, just to hear those again.

[mousestalker]

Wynne has an idealized view of the Grey Wardens. My Cousland was pretty noble. My Tabris was a rage filled revenge weasel. My Brosca was a former carta enforcer. My Amell aided a maleficar to escape. My Suranna was an informant. My Aeducan was convicted of killing her brother. My Mahariel hated all things human. The only character that really got along with Wynne was my Cousland who romanced Alistair.



None of the Tabris sisters could stand her. She displays a massive lack of empathy when talking to Caladrius. It's hard to not let that colour your view of Wynne.

[Xilizhra]

What does Wynne say with Caladrius?

[mousestalker]

The exact same thing she says with every other origin. Never mind that your father is standing right there.